Human (Must worship something granting the Death/Darkness domains. This is actually a tough one in Faerun. Not even any of the monster or fallen deities has this combination, strange as it may seem. Human is also to avoid multiclassing penalties.)
1-2: Rogue (Feat variant). Feats: Dreadful Wrath, Power Attack, Cleave
3-6: Hexblade. Feats: [1 OPEN], Mage Slayer
7: Fighter. Feat: Brutal Strike
8-9: Cloistered Cleric. Darkness domain, Death Devotion. Feat: Pierce Magical Protection
10: Fighter. Feat: Pierce Magical Concealment
11: Warrior Skald
12-15: Paladin of Tyranny. Feats: Doomspeak, Extra Music
16-20: ???
The Point: Bring down opponent saves with the following:
Shaken condition (from Dreadful Wrath)
Sickened condition (from Brutal Strike)
Debilitating Aura (Paladin of Tyranny)
Hexblade's Curse (free action, 1/day)
Dark Companion (from Hexblade 4)
Doomspeak (a whopping -10 penalty)
Death Devotion (a negative level from his mace, 1/4 levels max)
Bestow Curse (from his Spell-Storing mace)
Total Potential Debuff: on round 1, -17. Round 2, -25.
Round 1, used a charge with Brutal Strike, Hexblade's Curse, and cast Bestow Curse from Spell Storing weapon. Round 2, used Doomspeak.
In practice, it's probably best to hold the Hexblade's Curse and Bestow Curse in reserve for undead or other opponents who will be immune to shaken/sickened/negative energy etc. In such a case he can still apply the -2 from Dark Companion, -2 from the Curse and -6 from the Spell Storing for -10 total.
And it's pretty tough, with good saves from all the multiclassing, Divine Grace, Arcane Resistance, Evasion+Mettle.
What I'd Do with This Character
Pick it with Leadership for a Necromancer, Enchanter, or Transmuter... any kind of caster, really, who uses a lot of SoD effects.
Or, I'd play this sort of thing if a friend was playing a caster for the first time.
Finally, pairing this with a Gray or Sun Elf Focused Specialist would make a nice challenge for most parties. Or, maybe it would make a good thrall for an Illithid Thrallherd.
I got to wondering the other day just how much saving throw debuff one could get from a melee character. I only considered up to level 6 since that's where I'm playing, but I'm curious how much deeper it can go and how it can be done more efficiently.
Hexblade 3 / Paladin of Tyranny 3
Feats: Power Attack (prereq), Intimidating Strike, Brutal Strike
Paladin of Tyranny will give everything within 10' a -2 to their saves, and while the Hexblade Curse is only 1/day and can itself be resisted with a Will save, that's another -2 and it's cheaply acquired along with Arcane Resistance and Mettle.
It's kind of tough to get Intimidating Strike (which will apply the shaken condition) and Brutal Strike (for sickened) to land, requiring two rounds of melee in which two successful attacks are made. Shaken will last the encounter, but sickened will last only 1 round.
The idea of this character is to get save debuffs out of the weapon, allowing him to actually tank with a shield since the actual damage isn't really relevant. He's just opening the target up for a SoD from the caster.
My question is, can we get Sickened/Shaken in a more reliable and efficient manner, and what sorts of other debuff-type effects can be put on? I immediately think of Pierce Magical Protections, for example. Maybe Dispelling Strike from Suel Archanamach...
No mention of the dark companion for the hexblade? For Shame
Needs more Negative level bestowing.
I'm not familiar with Binding at all: it's never been allowed in a game I've played.
I thought of Death Devotion for negative level bestowing, but...
It's a vast improvement, getting multiple creatures; and it can be combined with a Brutal Strike.
It's not that extreme, it's rather that my DM is quite conservative.
Seriously, I've managed to get Magic Missile nerfed (to require a ranged touch) and Divine Insight outright banned.
The Doomspeak feat in Heroes of Horror gives a target a -10 to all rolls for one round (including saves). The unusual save mechanic (include CL instead of half CL) makes it almost impossible to fail affecting an opponent with it, especially at higher levels. Requires bardic music.
Bloody Blade (Ex): The fury of your attack is terrifying to see. Whenever you deal sudden strike damage (see below) with a melee weapon, the target of the sudden strike and all opponents within 30 feet of you who can see the target are shaken for a number of rounds equal to your avenging executioner level. A successful Will save (DC 10 + your avenging executioner level + your Cha modifier) negates this effect. Creatures whose HD exceed your character level are not affected. Bloody blade is a mind-affecting fear ability.
1 level also gives sudden strike
Not very reliable though.. The Creatures whose HD exceed your character level are not affected. part really blows
Edit, Question: None of the Classes used have Perform as a class skill so you will be limited as to how many ranks you will have, eg 6 for the above.. How are you getting enough perform ranks (9 needed) for Warrior Skald? I'm thinking something else is needed - maybe bard.. Is there a way to make a bard affect your enemies negatively?
Edit 2: You could take the Spellbreaker ACF from CM and get the subvocal Feat to keep from being too obvious
It would be nice to have another method of putting it on, so as to affect things that save against the frightful presence, but I'm not sure it's worth a level.
I'm also thinking something delivered via a Spell Storing Weapon might be useful. Perhaps a Bestow Curse, or one of those rays from SpC. Ray of Exhaustion even. I do believe rays will function in a spell storing weapon this way...
Unseelie Fey [Dragon Compendium] with the Winter's Chill power give living, nonfey creatures within 5 ft. a morale penalty to saves equal to CHA (i.e., nice CHA synergy!).
The Doomspeak feat in Heroes of Horror gives a target a -10 to all rolls for one round (including saves). The unusual save mechanic (include CL instead of half CL) makes it almost impossible to fail affecting an opponent with it, especially at higher levels. Requires bardic music.
What's the LA on Unseelie Fey? There's none listed in the template itself, but if the example character is correct... +0 LA is madness for such good (if random) bonuses.
What's the LA on Unseelie Fey? There's none listed in the template itself, but if the example character is correct... +0 LA is madness for such good (if random) bonuses.
Good question. The Unseelie Fey Gnome example has LA +0, though.
None of the Classes used have Perform as a class skill so you will be limited as to how many ranks you will have, eg 6 for the above.. How are you getting enough perform ranks (9 needed) for Warrior Skald? I'm thinking something else is needed - maybe bard.. Is there a way to make a bard affect your enemies negatively like taking the Spellbreaker ACF from CM and get the subvocal Feat to keep from being too obvious
Perform as a class skill
DMG2
May your kung fu be strong.
Also, there is a variant bard available to those allowed the resource that's focus is on debuffing. Below I present you: The Harbringer's bardic music's, from Dragon Magazine 337, as detailed in Crystal Keep's base class file.
Harbinger Class Features
Bardic Music – Instill Fear –N
Requires at least 3 ranks in Perform.
All opponents that can see & hear you receive a –N penalty on saving throws vs. charm & fear effects, and on attacks & weapon damage (WillNeg, DC is
Charisma-based). Effect lasts as long as you continue the song and the opponent can hear you plus 5 rounds. This is a Mind-Affecting Fear effect.
Bardic Music – Encourage Failure
Requires at least 6 ranks in Perform.
One opponent that can see & hear and is within 30’ receives a –2 penalty on all rolls for 1 round (WillNeg, DC is Charisma-based). This is a Mind-Affecting
effect.
Bardic Music – Dishearten
Requires at least 12 ranks in Perform.
One opponent (plus one per three levels above 15th) that can see & hear you for one full round and is within 30’ receives a –4 penalty on saving throws and AC
(WillNeg, DC is Charisma-based). Effect lasts as long as you continue the song and the opponent(s) can hear you plus 5 rounds. This is a Mind-Affecting effect.
Bardic Music – Dirge of Binding
Requires at least 15 ranks in Perform.
One opponent becomes paralyzed (WillNeg, DC is Charisma-based). Effect lasts as long as you continue the song and the opponent can hear you.
Bardic Music – Drain Prowess
Requires at least 21 ranks in Perform.
One opponent (plus one per three levels above 18th) that can hear you for one full round and is within 30’ receives 2 Negative Levels (WillNeg, DC is Charismabased).
Effect lasts as long as you continue the song and the opponent(s) can hear you. The negative levels never result in permanent level loss.
Also, a note: Instil fear uses the inspire courage progression, where N = the inspire courage value one would have at that level. Ergo, it wouldn't be too difficult to argue that the typical beneficial effects applied to bardic music (with the exception of words of creation, which I'm feeling would need to be swapped for the BOVD equivalent) could also be applied to instil fear.
Regretably I don't have the issue yet (will get it as soon as I can though, I'd never noticed just how interesting this variant was), so I don't know what is added to the save DC besides 10+Cha (could be 1/2 bard level, 1/2 effective bardic music level, or something more powerful)
One interesting note though, is the spell from races of stone: Harmonize (2nd level) that if you had it active (persisted, perhaps quickenned somehow, etc) You could spend your first action in order to trigger doomspeak, and then your second to activate one of those songs, granting the opponent a cumulative penalty or other beauties, dishearten seems particularily nasty to couple with it. That's a -14 total to their saves (assuming they fail doomspeak, which by all rights they should unless they trigger a moment of prescience or something on the save.)
Also, a suggestion. Ability Focus Bardic Music. A DM might decide you have to specify a song, or that it doesn't apply to doomspeak despite the fact that it is a bardic music effect, but it's still a good idea. +2 DC can make a noteworthy difference to a Bardic Debuffer.
Also note that the last two songs you get are not mind affecting. (interesting that they show up about the time mind affecting becomes especially rare in the game.)
I know it won't fit into the Pally build, but you asked about debuffing via bard. (Dirge of Binding + Unseen Seer + Hunter's Eye also open's up some interesting possibilities damagewise...)
I do still think bard at level 1 will help if you want Doomspeak here.. You can drop Apprentice and pick up another feat. And you Qualify for Doomspeak which requires Bardic Music. Maybe pick up the Mage Slayer chain?
Thanks for the catch with the paladin level. I'll have to fix that... turning is crucial for using Death Devotion.
Current build:
Human (must worship something granting the Death domain)
1-4: Paladin of Tyranny
5: Hexblade
6: Fighter
7: Hexblade
8: Fighter
9: Warrior Skald
10-11: Hexblade
The build incurs multiclassing penalties.
I'd add Travel Devotion, even above some of the other feats. After all, you need to get close to your victim quickly.
I'd also look into two levels of Crusader to pick up the Thicket of Blades stance and keep your foes from fleeing easily (plus the supplementary feats to go with it).
As for getting in close, he just charges. Travel Devotion is nice: if we can choose our own domains, sure, let's take it. But it's not nearly as important for this guy as for a traditional warrior, since he doesn't much care about the damage.
Just a little 10hp charging bash with a mace is all it takes to trigger the whole pile of save penalties.
I would have liked to put Bard in there as much as anyone, and it's not because I'm a BA purist that I didn't include it straight away. It's the alignment issue... I guess that's where I'm kind of a purist. Ironic since in my early days I was known for alignment changing PCs.
Thanks for the catch with the paladin level. I'll have to fix that... turning is crucial for using Death Devotion.
Well there is the Ordered Chaos feat which allows you to be Lawful AND Chaotic.. :D
Where is that from?
Fiendish Codex I, I think.
Unseelie Fey [Dragon Compendium] with the Winter's Chill power give living, nonfey creatures within 5 ft. a morale penalty to saves equal to CHA (i.e., nice CHA synergy!).
Unless the Human bonus feat is really needed, I think the optimal race for this Cha-based debuffer is a (Winter Season) Magic-blooded Unseelie Fey Lesser Aasimar (LA +0).
Ability adjustments: -2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, +6 Cha
The Con could be patched with Dragonborn, but that makes the character lose Winter's Chill.
If LA isn't that much of an issue, Gravetouched Ghoul (LA +2) could be nice. That would change the racial ability mods to: +0 Str, +6 Dex, -- Con, +2 Int, +4 Wis, +8 Cha. This nicely gets rid of the Constitution problem, and gives the character a (charisma based!) paralysis attack on their claws and bite.
Or Petal (also LA +2), for mad (+12) Charisma and a bit of a Con boost.
edit: Looked at your potential first-round routine. +1 Spell Storing Amulet of Natural Attacks to hold the bestow curse in your teeth.
edit 2: oh, multiclassing penalties @.@
answer:
MM3
Do they count as having a racial HD?
And where are you getting a +14 to cha from?
Where is Petal from again?
MM3, page 120.
Also, fixed its charisma. It's not +14. It's +12, for a magic-blooded, unseelie fey petal.
By dragon compendium you mean dragon magazine, right?
and where is magic blooded from?
By dragon compendium you mean dragon magazine, right?
Yeah, Dragon Compendium is a book that contains a bunch of stuff previously printed in Dragon magazines.
Unseelie Fey is in the compendium (originally from Dragon #304).
Magic-blooded is one of the environmental racial variants in Dragon #306.
Lesser Aasimar qualify for the Dreadful Wrath regional feat, since they're planetouched. Bite attacks can also be used with Brutal Strike, since they deal bludgeoning damage.
Wands: Manifestation of the Deity, Parching Touch or Mind Poison
A touch spell's charge can be held, and touch spells can also delivered through a natural weapon. So that's one more effect that can hit the enemy without spending any actions in combat. Here are the ones I came up with:
Parching touch deals 1d6 dessication damage, and on a failed save also deals 1 Con damage and dehydrates the target. Dehydrated characters are fatigued. (Neat!)
Mind poison deals 1d10 Wis damage on a failed save (and again 1 minute later), so this would be best if the debuffer is an assistant to an Enchanter.
Additionally, since you're undead, you can smear your favorite poison all over your mouth and you don't have to worry about poisoning yourself.
I see your example isn't using all of the actions available in the second turn, so here's my idea for a two-round breakdown, based on the Gravetouched Ghoul. (According to the Rules Compendium, using a wand of a swift action spell should be a swift action.)
Round 0 (sometime earlier in the day):
Standard action: Activate wand of parching touch or mind poison.
Round 1:
Swift action: Death Devotion
Free action: Hexblade's Curse
Full-round action: Charge, attack with bite
Free action: Bestow curse from Spell Storing bite
No action (passive): Dreadful Wrath
No action (passive): Aura of Dispair
No action (passive): [ability damage from poison covered mouth]
No action (passive): [held touch spell]
No action (passive): Paralysis
No action: Brutal Strike
No action: Dark Companion
Round 2:
Standard action: Doomspeak
Move action: Draw wand of manifestation of the deity
Swift action: Use wand of manifestation of the deity (if both it and dreadful wrath land, the foe is frightened. That doesn't lower its saves any more, but it may keep it from fighting back a bit more. If Dreadful Wrath didn't land, well, at least it's shaken now.)
I still don't have any idea what to do about the multiclass penalty, though.
I chose Human initially for the feat and the multiclassing advantages, and later kept it purely to avoid XP penalties.
Will add more later. Perhaps a build with the alternative races.
Here's an alternative build, for a non-evil game and with a slightly different focus. The idea is to combine the debuffing with basic lockdown functionality. After all, you don’t want people to leave your zone of terror...
Changeling
Feat Rogue 2 / Hexblade 4 / Fighter 2 / Cleric 1 / Bard 2 / Warshaper 4 / Warblade 2 / Crusader 2 / XXX 1
(Not in that order)
7 Normal Feats + 1 Flaw (not in order):
- Dreadful Wrath
- Extra Favored Class: Hexblade (or drop Hexblade altogether)
- Extra Music, Doomspeak
- Pierce Magical Protections
- Pierce Magical Concealment
- Bind Vestige
- Improved Binding (for Folacor)
- Combat Reflexes
- (if 2nd flaw is allowed): Able Learner
4 Fighter bonus feats (not in order):
- Hold the Line
- Stand Still
- Close Combat Fighting (to avoid pesky grapples)
- Mage Slayer
Domains:
Death (trade for Death Devotion), and one of the following: Charm (CHA boost), Dream (fear immunity), Fate (uncanny dodge), Liberation / Pride (reroll saves), Time (Improved Initiative), Undeath (Extra Turning)
Essential Maneuvers:
- Iron Heart Surge
Essential Stances:
- Thicket of Blades
Highlights: Debuffing
- Shaken condition (from Dreadful Wrath)
- Hexblade's Curse (free action, 1/day)
- Dark Companion (from Hexblade 4)
- Doomspeak (a whopping -10 penalty)
- Aura of Sadness (Folacor)
- Death Devotion (a negative level from his mace, 1/4 levels max)
- Bestow Curse (from his Spell-Storing weapon)
- Various status effects on critical hits (which are quite frequent) depending on weapon enchantments
Highlights: Weapon
- +1 Sudden Stunning (+3K, DMG2) Scimitar with
- Keen (+1)
- Prismatic Burst (30k)
- Greater Dispelling (+2)
- Spellstoring (+1): for Bestow Curse
- Various effects that trigger on critical hits and bestow debuffing / disabling conditions, such as Paralytic Burst, Slow Burst, Weakening, Cursespewing, etc.
Highlights: Lockdown
- 10ft. reach with normal melee weapon (scimitar)
- Any form of movement triggers AoO (Combat Reflexes included)
- Spellcasting draws AoOs
- Grapple attempts draw AoOs, even with Improved Grab / Grapple
- AoOs can be used to force opponents to “Stand Still”
Defense:
- Great saves (multiclassing) with Arcane Resistance, Evasion and Mettle
- Warshaper Immunities (stunning, critical hits)
- Fast Healing
- Potentially ability to reroll certain saves (see domains, above)
Options:
- Use fractional BAB if possible
Thoughts:
- A little all over the place, but quite effective. If someone has any idea how to get it done with less multiclassing, I’d be happy to know.
- Damage is perhaps a little low to guarantee success with AoO effects.