Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 felgoroth Jan 13, 2010 14:03:23	Ok so I'm DMing a homebrewed game in Pathfinder and need help with an NPC.  The party recently rescued the Queen and Prince (the kings been dead for 13 years) from an Assassin.  Anyway, the party is now taking the Prince to his Uncles in another city so if another Assassin comes the Prince won't get killed (and hopefully the Queens body gaurds will kill the Assassin off).  On their way to the city the Prince is going to insist they stop at an Inn and I have a feeling that the Barbarian and the Paladin in the party won't want to stop.  So the Prince is going to challenge them to a duel, they'll both fight the Prince seperately. Ok so anyways what I'm trying to do for the Prince is make him a really prissy type stuck up fighter.  I'm pretty sure I want him to use a Whip to disarm/trip people then come in and attack with another weapon.   The more I look at it though the less I like it because he has to take Combat Expertise and TWF and I don't see him using Combat Expertise much if he's dual wielding.  I was originally thinking a Rapier or Pistol (the one from the 3.5 DMG, and yes the games got flintlock guns) but, that's a -4 on all his attacks because both of the weapons are 1 handed.  So now I'm thinking a Shortsword if he even ends up dual wielding. I was just wondering if I could get some help with the build.  Here's what I have so far: Prince Frederick - Human Fighter 7 1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Whip) H: Combat Expertise B: Improved Disarm B: Improved Trip 3: Dodge B: Mobility 5: Spring Attack B: Greater Disarm 7: Greater Trip
#2 gorfnad_the_shiznit Jan 13, 2010 14:26:32	How about Fighter 5/ Lasher 2? Lasher (Sword and Fist) would be fairly easy to update to Pathfinder since all you would really need to do is update the skill selection. For feats you just change where you have B: Improved Trip with B: Weapon Focus Whip and the rest of the feats stay where they are.
#3 bruceleeroy Jan 13, 2010 14:53:29	Are greater disarm/trip something from pathfinder?
#4 eviltedzies Jan 14, 2010 4:22:27	I agree with gorfnad_the_shiznit. The Lasher PrC was an excellent concept in 3.0 that sadly did not recieve an update in 3.5 edition. Fighter 5/Lasher 2 Feats: Lvl1: EWP(Whip), Dodge(Human),  Combat Expertise (Fighter 1st) Lvl2: Improved Disarm (Fighter 2nd) Lvl3: Mobility Lvl4: Spring Attack (Fighter 4th) Lvl6: Combat Reflexes Lvl7: Improved Trip (Lasher Bonus) This quick build will shine against melee oriented builds. The basic strategy is simple. 1st: Use Spring Attack to play hit and run tactics with your foe. 2nd: If your foe threatens an Attack of Opportunity from you, use your free attack to trip him. If you succeed you get a free attack against him. Use your free attack to disarm your foe and take his weapon. 3rd: On your turn either Spring Attack your foe and mock him from a distance or just proceed to pummle his weaponless self. Repeat Steps 1-3 until foe is defeated. For defensive purposes, keep dodge up on your target and use Combat Expertise as needed. On a further note, I would very much like to hear how the fights play out.
#5 felgoroth Jan 14, 2010 8:00:30	Ya greater disarm/trip are from Pathfinder.  You don't provoke attacks of opportunity normally with just Improved Trip so you have to take Greater Trip for that and I think you can make your opponents weapon land further away from them with Greater Disarm.  With Pathfinder I'd get a second feat at 7th (because they get a feat every odd level) so I could take Greater Trip there but, I don't get a 6th level feat if Lasher doesn't get 1 there though so I'd have to figure out how to get Combat Reflexes in there.  O wait! I get a 5th level feat so forget that, I could do it how it is.  Another downside is that I don't have Sword & Fist lol.  Anyone have a link to Lasher?  If so I'll do this for feats: Human Fighter 5/Lasher 2 1: EWP (Whip) H: Dodge B: Combat Expertise B: Improved Disarm 3: Mobility B: Spring Attack 5: Combat Reflexes B: Improved Trip (Lasher) 7: Greater Trip I'll let you know how it turns out lol.  I'm 90% sure the Prince will win mainly because he's 4 levels higher than the party members (not that they know that).  I think I might even have him take them both on at once just to show off or add another NPC that is going with them and 1 has to fight the Prince and the other has to fight the other NPC which would probably be a noble or something.
#6 eviltedzies Jan 14, 2010 13:00:14	EN World has a decent 3.5 Lasher update. Most of the material is the same, but a few things have been improved to make the class more playable.   See www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-ho...  for the breakdown of the PrC.   As far as fighting both at once... hehe both 1v1 and 2v1 could be interesting. I see a haughty prince speaking in a calm proud voice belittling the fighting skills of his opponents and trying to goad them into making a mistake.
#7 David Jan 14, 2010 15:14:38	I'm gonna burst your bubble here. Challenging someone to a duel is just about the dumbest thing you can do. You will lose everytime. The obvious reason for this is that the person being challenged is the one who gets to pick the weapon, not the challenger. That means no whip, and no pistol if the players aren't proficient with them. Ofcourse you could disregard the standard dueling rules, but if any of your players actually knows the rules he's gonna be pretty pissed after accepting... By the way, you're also gonna need a doctor, and a second for both duelists. The second is probably your best bet. Let the prince challenge one of the party members then convince another partymember to be his second. The prince will than fake his injury and the seconda has to fight for him instead. Alternatively, you could let him lose. Let the players humiliate him or something. Hope this helps.
#8 David Jan 15, 2010 0:09:07	I forgot a couple of things. Dueling against someone who isn't of noble blood is not done. This generally means peasants, but it might also include Barbarians. The Paladin, however, is fair game. The prince could also challenge someone who isn't trained in combat (Wizard?), to get an unfair advantage over his opponent. Consider banning or allowing the use of magic for duels. This is a fantasy game after all. You might consider using magic cheating, or you might consider it just another part of the duel. Additionaly, you might want to get a caster as second to check for magical weapons, poisons, buffs and stuff like that. If you ban the use of magic entirely, use antimagicfield on one of the weapons. That should do the trick.
#9 felgoroth Jan 15, 2010 13:46:33	I didn't mean a duel by the standards of a noble dueling another noble I meant he's really just saying "if you can beat me in a fight then we won't go" so he can use his whip as much as he wants.  Also, the Prince is 4 levels higher than the party members so he's not going to have any problems fighting them.  He might have a little trouble with 2 at once but, he should be good.  He's got a high dex plus combat expertise plus being able to disarm/trip people.
#10 David Jan 16, 2010 3:15:37	So you've got a DMPC to railroad the PCs into staying at the inn. Yeah, that should work.
#11 felgoroth Jan 18, 2010 10:05:16	Ya pretty much.  The inns a key point in the campaign so they kind of need to go their or the story won't really advance as planned.
#12 viperjock_stimjunkie Jan 30, 2010 21:55:03	OK, so ... you have a Paladin ... and a Barbarain ... you want them in the inn. They want to complete their mission as any player would. Easy, you dont need to beat them up and challenge them to fights. State your NPC's intent on going to the Inn, when they refuse.  Lead them to the inn a way they can not refuse. Well maybe the barbarain could refuse ... but the Paladin hes the key .... bound by honor and goodness, he/she should go almost anywhere wrongs need to be righted, evil smote, innocents saved, etc. If he does'nt he shant be a paladin for long. the road they are on passes by the inn just then they see hear glimpse "X" and they, because of code honor and chivilry must go... use the prince to remind them of such.  Plot hook complete