A better way to fight drunk? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

A better way to fight drunk?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
atsuishoto
Dec 06, 2008 15:25:37 I've seen quite a few suggestions that the Drunken Master PrC is not worthwhile primarily because its abilities can be had without any actual levels in the PrC. In short, how?

A fellow gamer at my table lost his character to the same trap that killed mine, so we're helping each other build new 8th level characters. My buddy wants to play a drunken master, and he's so new to the game that his mind has not yet been spoiled by the dictum "to play an XXX, you need to use the class named XXX". He seemed intrigued by my idea of using a completely reflavored Crusader as a drunken master.

Now, before I go stumbling down this road too far (as I'm not totally familiar with the Bo9S, and we could go with ANY class at this point), I'd like some advice for assembling neat abilities that could have a "stumbling drunk" feel to them in the right context, or already are meant to be used as such.

The appeal of the Crusader was the random availability of maneuvers, but the highly mobile combat style really should include Setting Sun and Desert Wind maneuvers, yes? ...which aren't available to Crusaders. Bah!
#2
playswithfire
Dec 06, 2008 16:04:33 I heartily approved of using Crusader to simulate drunkenness. I sort of did this in a gestalt game.
Draconic Dream Dwarf
LA 1/Fighter 1/Crusader 11//Monk 2/Bard 4/Drunken Master 5/Deepwarden 2

The maneuvers granted mechanic for a Crusader works great as maneuvers remembered while in a drunken stupor.
The delayed damage of steely resolve (not noticing you've been hit at first) and the extra damage of furious counterstrike also work quite well for a drunken martial arts style.

Other classes that might bear consideration are (pulling some of these from my build, obviously; feel free to ignore):
Battle Dancer: quick, chaotic, fights well unarmed, always moving around
Dervish to a certain extent, again for the mobility, but the required use of slashing weapons would mean you'd need to use broken ale jugs instead of full ones you could drink from
Bard - drunkenly singing and dancing and encouraging people to help you out in a bar fight
Deepwarden - fluff of the class is all wrong, but the stonewarden ability (CON in place of DEX to AC) fits a drunken brawler; you're not nimble, but you can just take the hit (ok, technically, it's a miss, but conceptually having a higher constitution mean you get hurt less works)
That's all I've got for now; but you've got me interested, so I'll keep thinking about it
#3
BadCatMan
Dec 06, 2008 18:19:01 Perhaps a Barbarian? The basic version is 'angry drunk'. but there's some Rage variants to alter the flavour. Like Whirling Frenzy, maybe?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy

Almost any warrior class could be used though, like Fighter, Monk, or Swashbuckler. Drunken boxing is more about pretending to be drunk so that opponents underestimate you. So something focused on Feinting in combat is a good way to go.

Some statted out alchohols give bonuses as well as negatives, like those in Lords Of Darkness, except they're addictive.
#4
playswithfire
Dec 07, 2008 14:06:39
Drunken boxing is more about pretending to be drunk so that opponents underestimate you. So something focused on Feinting in combat is a good way to go.

That's a really good point. I guess there're two different ways to do a drunken master in D&D: one that really is drunk and derives power from that and one that simulates drunkenness to confuse and surprise his opponents. I'd mainly been thinking about the first kind, but the second is also interesting.

I wonder if you could adapt the 10-level version of invisible blade to be the second kind. Replace all references to (dagger, kukri, or punching dagger) with (unarmed strike or improvised weapon) and maybe replace the bleeding wound progression with the extra d4/d8/d12 damage with improvised weapons progression from the original drunken master.
#5
Senevri
Dec 08, 2008 11:41:41 Start with an unarmed Swordsage (traditional training) - go to crusader. Then, Shadow Sun for SS, or Master of Nine for SS + DW.

As an aside, besides pretending to be more drunk than you actually are, the alcohol makes pain go away (up to a point), and also stops the mechanism that breaks your motions to prevent damage to your joints from working, thus increasing strength output, at the cost of damage and shortened career.
#6
acereraklives
Dec 08, 2008 22:51:09 I seriously thought this would be a thread asking on how to play optimized characters when the players are all completely faded.
#7
volatris
Dec 09, 2008 14:42:37 Here's one worth considering. (it only uses 10 classes)
#8
Senevri
Dec 10, 2008 6:01:29
I seriously thought this would be a thread asking on how to play optimized characters when the players are all completely faded.

Switch to FUDGE :P
#9
justicesays
Dec 11, 2008 20:02:20
The appeal of the Crusader was the random availability of maneuvers, but the highly mobile combat style really should include Setting Sun and Desert Wind maneuvers, yes? ...which aren't available to Crusaders. Bah!

Well, any Bo9s class is more mobile due to the lesser need for full attacks.
Anyway, either ask your DM to swap out Devoted spirit and White raven for setting sun and desert wind.
or alternatively qualify for the Master of Nine (10 rank skill requirement entry) with some class combo like Human Fighter 1/Crusader 5/Unarmed Swordsage 1
Which is
Adaptive style (Human bonus) Dodge (fighter bonus) , Improved initiative (level 1) Improved unarmed strike (Unarmed swordsage bonus) , Blind Fight (3rd level)

Or swap Fighter for Cobra Strike monk and take regular swordsage

Once you get Master of Nine level up and use the any discipline manoeuvres to add desert wind/setting sun or whatever you want to your crusader progression. Be sure to pick the right swordsage maneuvers to qualify
That will only get you to 12th level though, although you could just alternate in Mo9 levels while progressing crusader , as you get plenty of manoeuvres over the 5 levels (8 and two stances). You would end up with a really long list of readied and granted manoeuvres at the end of it as each additional readied manoeuvre for crusader also gives one extra granted at the start of combat, which would lessen the randomness factor alot (something like 9 granted on the first round with 3 withheld)
#10
Endarire
Dec 13, 2008 17:02:03 I second the notion of Whirling Frenzy Barbarian, but take Lion Totem.

Also, what about two-weapon or multiweapon fighting?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 atsuishoto Dec 06, 2008 15:25:37	I've seen quite a few suggestions that the Drunken Master PrC is not worthwhile primarily because its abilities can be had without any actual levels in the PrC. In short, how? A fellow gamer at my table lost his character to the same trap that killed mine, so we're helping each other build new 8th level characters. My buddy wants to play a drunken master, and he's so new to the game that his mind has not yet been spoiled by the dictum "to play an XXX, you need to use the class named XXX". He seemed intrigued by my idea of using a completely reflavored Crusader as a drunken master. Now, before I go stumbling down this road too far (as I'm not totally familiar with the Bo9S, and we could go with ANY class at this point), I'd like some advice for assembling neat abilities that could have a "stumbling drunk" feel to them in the right context, or already are meant to be used as such. The appeal of the Crusader was the random availability of maneuvers, but the highly mobile combat style really should include Setting Sun and Desert Wind maneuvers, yes? ...which aren't available to Crusaders. Bah!
#2 playswithfire Dec 06, 2008 16:04:33	I heartily approved of using Crusader to simulate drunkenness. I sort of did this in a gestalt game. Draconic Dream Dwarf LA 1/Fighter 1/Crusader 11//Monk 2/Bard 4/Drunken Master 5/Deepwarden 2 The maneuvers granted mechanic for a Crusader works great as maneuvers remembered while in a drunken stupor. The delayed damage of steely resolve (not noticing you've been hit at first) and the extra damage of furious counterstrike also work quite well for a drunken martial arts style. Other classes that might bear consideration are (pulling some of these from my build, obviously; feel free to ignore): Battle Dancer: quick, chaotic, fights well unarmed, always moving around Dervish to a certain extent, again for the mobility, but the required use of slashing weapons would mean you'd need to use broken ale jugs instead of full ones you could drink from Bard - drunkenly singing and dancing and encouraging people to help you out in a bar fight Deepwarden - fluff of the class is all wrong, but the stonewarden ability (CON in place of DEX to AC) fits a drunken brawler; you're not nimble, but you can just take the hit (ok, technically, it's a miss, but conceptually having a higher constitution mean you get hurt less works) That's all I've got for now; but you've got me interested, so I'll keep thinking about it
#3 BadCatMan Dec 06, 2008 18:19:01	Perhaps a Barbarian? The basic version is 'angry drunk'. but there's some Rage variants to alter the flavour. Like Whirling Frenzy, maybe? http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy Almost any warrior class could be used though, like Fighter, Monk, or Swashbuckler. Drunken boxing is more about pretending to be drunk so that opponents underestimate you. So something focused on Feinting in combat is a good way to go. Some statted out alchohols give bonuses as well as negatives, like those in Lords Of Darkness, except they're addictive.
#4 playswithfire Dec 07, 2008 14:06:39	Drunken boxing is more about pretending to be drunk so that opponents underestimate you. So something focused on Feinting in combat is a good way to go. That's a really good point. I guess there're two different ways to do a drunken master in D&D: one that really is drunk and derives power from that and one that simulates drunkenness to confuse and surprise his opponents. I'd mainly been thinking about the first kind, but the second is also interesting. I wonder if you could adapt the 10-level version of invisible blade to be the second kind. Replace all references to (dagger, kukri, or punching dagger) with (unarmed strike or improvised weapon) and maybe replace the bleeding wound progression with the extra d4/d8/d12 damage with improvised weapons progression from the original drunken master.
#5 Senevri Dec 08, 2008 11:41:41	Start with an unarmed Swordsage (traditional training) - go to crusader. Then, Shadow Sun for SS, or Master of Nine for SS + DW. As an aside, besides pretending to be more drunk than you actually are, the alcohol makes pain go away (up to a point), and also stops the mechanism that breaks your motions to prevent damage to your joints from working, thus increasing strength output, at the cost of damage and shortened career.
#6 acereraklives Dec 08, 2008 22:51:09	I seriously thought this would be a thread asking on how to play optimized characters when the players are all completely faded.
#7 volatris Dec 09, 2008 14:42:37	Here's one worth considering. (it only uses 10 classes)
#8 Senevri Dec 10, 2008 6:01:29	I seriously thought this would be a thread asking on how to play optimized characters when the players are all completely faded. Switch to FUDGE :P
#9 justicesays Dec 11, 2008 20:02:20	The appeal of the Crusader was the random availability of maneuvers, but the highly mobile combat style really should include Setting Sun and Desert Wind maneuvers, yes? ...which aren't available to Crusaders. Bah! Well, any Bo9s class is more mobile due to the lesser need for full attacks. Anyway, either ask your DM to swap out Devoted spirit and White raven for setting sun and desert wind. or alternatively qualify for the Master of Nine (10 rank skill requirement entry) with some class combo like Human Fighter 1/Crusader 5/Unarmed Swordsage 1 Which is Adaptive style (Human bonus) Dodge (fighter bonus) , Improved initiative (level 1) Improved unarmed strike (Unarmed swordsage bonus) , Blind Fight (3rd level) Or swap Fighter for Cobra Strike monk and take regular swordsage Once you get Master of Nine level up and use the any discipline manoeuvres to add desert wind/setting sun or whatever you want to your crusader progression. Be sure to pick the right swordsage maneuvers to qualify That will only get you to 12th level though, although you could just alternate in Mo9 levels while progressing crusader , as you get plenty of manoeuvres over the 5 levels (8 and two stances). You would end up with a really long list of readied and granted manoeuvres at the end of it as each additional readied manoeuvre for crusader also gives one extra granted at the start of combat, which would lessen the randomness factor alot (something like 9 granted on the first round with 3 withheld)
#10 Endarire Dec 13, 2008 17:02:03	I second the notion of Whirling Frenzy Barbarian, but take Lion Totem. Also, what about two-weapon or multiweapon fighting?