A big reason to love Helm

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

shubniggurath

Jul 18, 2008 12:51:53
Did you guys check the level 3 cleric spell Mace of Odo in Magic of Faerun?
It is a spell open only to Clerics of Helm.

I will use CL as a shorthand for caster level

Let's see. A 3rd level spell that gives you a mace that:
- leaves your hand free to do other stuff if you are not attacking without disappearing
- Is a force effect
- TOUCH attack
- CLd6 (max 10) damage
- +CL damage to undead
- If struck, FOR DC as a 3rd level spell or paralyzed for 1 round
- If a spell targets you you can choose to let the mace absorb it. In that case you suffer no effect and the mace disappears

WTF? But, wait, you will say. Wait, how long is the casting time? And how long does it last?

Well, my friend, it doesn't matter, since it is PERSISTABLE!!!!

WTF is wrong with WotC? Do they let Mickey Mouse write the FR spells?

OMG, I want to build a cleric of Helm with a persistent Mace of Odo now.
#2

phaedrusxy

Jul 18, 2008 14:20:59
That is one sick spell. I can't believe I've never heard of it on here before.
#3

shubniggurath

Jul 18, 2008 14:38:47
I can't believe that I found something that the COers overlooked! :D
#4

ikildkenny

Jul 18, 2008 14:55:03
am I the only one who recognizes that the spell ends as soon as you strike a creature?? cause this would mean, that no matter you persisted the spell, it still ends as soon as you strike a creature with it

furthermore you can only make one single attack per turn with it... imho not worth it
#5

phaedrusxy

Jul 18, 2008 16:21:58
am I the only one who recognizes that the spell ends as soon as you strike a creature?? cause this would mean, that no matter you persisted the spell, it still ends as soon as you strike a creature with it

furthermore you can only make one single attack per turn with it... imho not worth it

Ah yeah, that limits it substantially. I was just going off what was in the OP. That would explain why I haven't seen it here before. ;)
#6

shubniggurath

Jul 18, 2008 18:01:12
Yes, it disappears after you strike someone. Bummer, I missed that.

It is still a solid 3rd level spell IMHO, considering that you can cast it a little before combat (1 round/lev duration) and you can cast while holding it
#7

Blade2718

Jul 21, 2008 15:08:36
It's still a pretty hefty handful of d6's to be tossing on a touch attack.
#8

empirate

Jul 21, 2008 19:09:17
Actually, you don't have to be a follower of Helm to use this spell. The reason "(Helm)" is part of the Level entry in the spell's statblock is simply that the spell originated with the church of Helm (Magic of Faerûn p. 68: "Some spells have an origin given in parentheses after the spell's level. This indicates the deity that initially provided this spell (such as Azuth), a group of spellcasters that created the spell (such as the Red Wizards), or a region where the spell originated (such as Halruaa). Since these spells have been created, others have duplicated the efforts of the creators, so that now the cleric spells created by Azuth are available to all faiths...").

Yes, a very good spell. But it's also 3.0. It hasn't ever been updated, theoretically meaning it's still in effect, but many groups wouldn't touch it for that reason. If your group allows it, go ahead. It's one of the best 3rd level spells on the Cleric list. Even if you don't want to use it to attack (which would be a strong option: force damage, touch attack, save-or-die attached), it can still absorb one spell targeted at you. Completely. No save, no SR, no nothing vs. this absorption, as it is an effect spell without a target. This is a very powerful defense when you're facing a spellcaster, and only gets better the higher level spells are aimed at you: you only expend a 3rd level spell to negate a targeted 9th level spell? Sign me up!
However, the casting time is 1 full round, which may limit the combat usefulness of this spell somewhat, but you can just cast it immediately prior to combat.
#9

phaedrusxy

Jul 23, 2008 16:18:01
However, the casting time is 1 full round, which may limit the combat usefulness of this spell somewhat, but you can just cast it immediately prior to combat.

I'm sure there are plenty of ways around that, like putting it in a Contingency.
#10

empirate

Jul 24, 2008 9:03:07
You could do that, PhaedrusXY, but that would carry a high cost which wouldn't really be worth it, or would it? If it's just about the spell absorption, you could just contingency spell immunity or even AMF. I don't see a reason to contingency the Mace of Odo for the damage.
What other ways are there to shorten casting time?
#11

phaedrusxy

Jul 24, 2008 10:55:22
AMF has a very large and obvious drawback. Spell Immunity only works on things that allow SR. From what has been said here, this spell absorbs anything, right? It's basically like a low level Spell Turning.
#12

empirate

Jul 25, 2008 2:59:18
Interesting. The spell description says: "While you are holding the mace, if you are targeted with a spell, you may choose to have the mace absorb the spell." So it seems it must be a targeted spell, but otherwise, there is no limitation.

Seems this thing might actually be worth it to store in a contingency!

Still, are there any other ways to shorten casting time? You can Quicken it, obviously, but adding four spell levels makes the Mace look much less shiny. Worth it to get as a spell-like ability? Probably not.
#13

drowvampyre

Jul 25, 2008 3:25:55
What about Rapid Spell? That'd cut it down to a standard action, at least...
#14

phaedrusxy

Jul 25, 2008 11:16:52
Interesting. The spell description says: "While you are holding the mace, if you are targeted with a spell, you may choose to have the mace absorb the spell." So it seems it must be a targeted spell, but otherwise, there is no limitation.

Seems this thing might actually be worth it to store in a contingency!

Still, are there any other ways to shorten casting time? You can Quicken it, obviously, but adding four spell levels makes the Mace look much less shiny. Worth it to get as a spell-like ability? Probably not.

I don't think you can Quicken a full round action casting time spell.

I like using some immediate action spell or magic item to set as the trigger for your Contingency. That way, you don't have to predict the exact circumstances for which you'll want to use it. You just have to not be flat-footed when you need it.
#15

empirate

Jul 28, 2008 9:54:28
Quicken Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit

Casting a quickened spell is an swift action. You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell. You may cast only one quickened spell per round. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened. A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Casting a quickened spell doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity.
Special

This feat can’t be applied to any spell cast spontaneously (including sorcerer spells, bard spells, and cleric or druid spells cast spontaneously), since applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell automatically increases the casting time to a full-round action.

Important part bolded, ultra-important part in red. Still, quickening Mace of Odo might not be that efficient a use for a 7th level spell slot... but there's still DMM: Quicken.

Otherwise, good method for contingent spells there. Is there no way around the flat-footed vulnerability (bar Foresight, naturally).
#16

phaedrusxy

Jul 28, 2008 10:57:30
Otherwise, good method for contingent spells there. Is there no way around the flat-footed vulnerability (bar Foresight, naturally).

There are several others. 1) Go around Shapechanged into a Minotaur, 2) Some Eberron feat dealing with "Marks", 3) the "Cunning" ability of a Legacy Weapon/Item.

With the last one, you can even get Contingency as a power on it, also. So it could work even for non-spellcasters, if they can get the ability to "cast" the spell they want to put into it somehow.