A bit more than a Wallop - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

A bit more than a Wallop

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
cycada
Jul 17, 2009 15:27:38 Ello everyone,

Figured I'd put that as a disclaimer this isn't a build so much as it is an idea that is crazy good, IMHO.

As everyone knows, GMW is one of the best spells in terms of increasing a dmg dealers abilities if they wield a bludgeoning weapon. I've found a few things that I think are interesting enough to need it's own thread. Keep in line that some people might need convincing that this works...

First, turn in your Magic of Eberron books to the War Spikard, a weapon that is essentially the combination of a warhammer and a crossbow. It requires an exotic weapon prof. and rapid reload to use effectively, but I personally think that it's use could pay off.

A War Spikard is a Bludgeoning/Piercing weapon, which to me means that it qualifies as a bludgeoning weapon. I think others may agree, considering the fact that the Weapon Supremacy feats would be worthless to a large number of weapons if a dual damage weapon was not considered one of each type.

Applying GMW to the best of it's ability would increase the weapons size to Colossal, meaning it does 6d6 damage base. The bolt special effect of the War Spikard is based on the base damage the weapon does (specifically listing the size based damage values for both small and medium weapons of it's type), which means that the bolt itself will do 6d6 damage.

This means that each swing with this weapon will deal 12d6 damage base, reloaded as a free action, so it can do this multiple times per round.

What do you all think? Are there any flaws to this logic, or is this even helpful at all? Is there any weapon that can outdo it in terms of shear dps?

Thanks,

~Cy
#2
dandu
Jul 17, 2009 15:29:59
First, turn in your Magic of Eberron books to the War Spikard, a weapon that is essentially the combination of a warhammer and a crossbow. It requires an exotic weapon prof. and rapid reload to use effectively, but I personally think that it could pay off.

What.
#3
cycada
Jul 17, 2009 15:36:52 I see nothing wrong with my post. The War Spikard is a weapon in the Magic of Eberron supplement for the DnD tabletop roleplaying game. To be even more specific it is on page 137 of said book.

Again, I don't understand the confusion.

~Cy
#4
dandu
Jul 17, 2009 15:44:50 It's just... seriously, a crossbow duct taped to a warhammer? I mean... just... I... ARGH!
#5
madtitanfan
Jul 17, 2009 15:50:51 My Favorite choice for Greater Might Wallop is The Great Horn Minotaur Hammer from MM4 (Page 100) If you can Find a Med one it does 1d12 Dam with a 19-20 Crit Range and a x4 Multiplier!!! A large one does 3d6. Meaning a 12 Lvl Caster could make that a 8d6. Its my Gish Weapon on Choice.
#6
Balthanon
Jul 17, 2009 21:22:04 Since the weapon is dealing damage separately, once with bludgeoning damage and once with piercing (rather than doing both at once like a morningstar), it would probably be fairly easy to say that greater mighty whallop only affects the bludgeoning portion.

That would be an amusing weapon to bring into a campaign though, particularly if you're playing a traditional gnomish tinker or the like.
#7
nephew_of_istvan
Jul 18, 2009 13:04:26 I use GMW to aid my party's Raging Berserker, he uses the Executioner's Axe.

From what I see about the War Spikard, yes, it would work. Ranged weapons deal damage based not on the size of the projectile, but on the size of the weapon itself, and the weapon's effective size is being increased, so the projectile portion would also deal extra damage.
#8
siranui
Jul 19, 2009 4:09:05 I think you may be pushing the GM's patience, claiming GMW on the crossbow part by dint of the rules not going into excruciating detail. I've dropped interstellar pianos on players for less!

"seriously, a crossbow duct taped to a warhammer? I mean... just... I... ARGH!"

Hey... it's FAR more sensible than the dire flail and mercurial swords.

Oddly, WOTC never got back to me on my 'what moron decided mercurial weapons would work?' email.
#9
tytalus
Jul 19, 2009 5:58:54
I think you may be pushing the GM's patience, claiming GMW on the crossbow part by dint of the rules not going into excruciating detail. I've dropped interstellar pianos on players for less!

Still, the rules explicitly say that the bolt damage depends on weapon size.

"seriously, a crossbow duct taped to a warhammer? I mean... just... I... ARGH!"

Hey... it's FAR more sensible than the dire flail and mercurial swords.

I'm no so sure; look:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91492.jpg

But there's plenty of "it would never work" weapons in 3.5 D&D, such as the Gyrospike (sword + flail) and the double bow, for example. Both from the Arms & Equipment guide, which is notorious for its bad artwork:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/aeg_gallery/50040.jpg

And then there's artists who don't understand how weapons work, as shown here, where the hand guard of the Quick-Blade Rapier [CAdv, p.117] is facing the wrong way, rendering the weapon essentially useless:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cx_gallery/86396.jpg
#10
siranui
Jul 19, 2009 9:37:55 "Still, the rules explicitly say that the bolt damage depends on weapon size."

Rules < common sense

Via the same logic, once could cast GMW on the pommel of a sword, then claim increased strength damage. Any GM worth playing with will veto this one.

I'd not noticed the pic of the quickblade before. Doh!

Mercurial weapons are worse even than the plain 'dumb' weapons because they are not only 'dumb' to use on at least two different levels, but nigh-impossible to manufacture [drill a hole in a sword, lengthways, anyone? Without making it weaker?] and in defiance of the laws of nature [mercury I believe is absorbed my steel].
#11
Grumman
Jul 19, 2009 10:54:37
That would be an amusing weapon to bring into a campaign though, particularly if you're playing a traditional gnomish tinker or the like.

"Look out! They've got a ~~board~~ hammer with a nail in it!"
#12
atomickitkat
Jul 19, 2009 11:48:01 Mercurial weapons aren't really that bad. It's just, they're more suited to making some kind of iron-stave(figuring out how to make a steel pipe using Middle Ages/Rennaisance technology is another set of problems on its own).
#13
dandu
Jul 19, 2009 11:56:13 Magic.
#14
zaxter
Jul 19, 2009 13:06:47
Magic.

+1
#15
cycada
Jul 19, 2009 14:13:03
I think you may be pushing the GM's patience, claiming GMW on the crossbow part by dint of the rules not going into excruciating detail. I've dropped interstellar pianos on players for less!

"seriously, a crossbow duct taped to a warhammer? I mean... just... I... ARGH!"

Hey... it's FAR more sensible than the dire flail and mercurial swords.

Oddly, WOTC never got back to me on my 'what moron decided mercurial weapons would work?' email.

And you think that half the stuff on this board is any less of a patience pusher? :P

Come ooooon. Welcome to CO!

~Cy

P.s. Dire flails are completely impossible to use realistically, a flail irl uses momentum built up by swing it over your head, etc, which is impossible to do with a dire flail. Flails as a whole werent used much in war because of how ackward and dangerous they were to employ.

Lastly, mercurial weapons actually have some merit, considering we use hammers now that rely on the same concept. Increasing the mass at the end of a blow might be hard to achieve, it still is definently effective.

Who's to say the sword has to be double edged? A simple tube of mercury running down the back of the blade in a reinforced shell would work well enough.
#16
ikildkenny
Jul 19, 2009 14:56:57
[mercury I believe is absorbed my steel].

in fact it is the other way around - after some time the mercury would dissolve the surrounding metal/steel completely
... but seriously, we are discussing in a world, where little peoply with hairy feet shoot little bulbs of colored light out of there palms and grown men can crawl into a infant's rear hole only by beiing agile enough ...
#17
tytalus
Jul 19, 2009 16:22:07
in fact it is the other way around - after some time the mercury would dissolve the surrounding metal/steel completely
... but seriously, we are discussing in a world, where little peoply with hairy feet shoot little bulbs of colored light out of there palms and grown men can crawl into a infant's rear hole only by beiing agile enough ...

Fact is, these weapons do exist in non-magic version, which makes little sense.

That magic doesn't exist in our world is not a good argument against common sense for D&D.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cycada Jul 17, 2009 15:27:38	Ello everyone, Figured I'd put that as a disclaimer this isn't a build so much as it is an idea that is crazy good, IMHO. As everyone knows, GMW is one of the best spells in terms of increasing a dmg dealers abilities if they wield a bludgeoning weapon. I've found a few things that I think are interesting enough to need it's own thread. Keep in line that some people might need convincing that this works... First, turn in your Magic of Eberron books to the War Spikard, a weapon that is essentially the combination of a warhammer and a crossbow. It requires an exotic weapon prof. and rapid reload to use effectively, but I personally think that it's use could pay off. A War Spikard is a Bludgeoning/Piercing weapon, which to me means that it qualifies as a bludgeoning weapon. I think others may agree, considering the fact that the Weapon Supremacy feats would be worthless to a large number of weapons if a dual damage weapon was not considered one of each type. Applying GMW to the best of it's ability would increase the weapons size to Colossal, meaning it does 6d6 damage base. The bolt special effect of the War Spikard is based on the base damage the weapon does (specifically listing the size based damage values for both small and medium weapons of it's type), which means that the bolt itself will do 6d6 damage. This means that each swing with this weapon will deal 12d6 damage base, reloaded as a free action, so it can do this multiple times per round. What do you all think? Are there any flaws to this logic, or is this even helpful at all? Is there any weapon that can outdo it in terms of shear dps? Thanks, ~Cy
#2 dandu Jul 17, 2009 15:29:59	First, turn in your Magic of Eberron books to the War Spikard, a weapon that is essentially the combination of a warhammer and a crossbow. It requires an exotic weapon prof. and rapid reload to use effectively, but I personally think that it could pay off. What.
#3 cycada Jul 17, 2009 15:36:52	I see nothing wrong with my post. The War Spikard is a weapon in the Magic of Eberron supplement for the DnD tabletop roleplaying game. To be even more specific it is on page 137 of said book. Again, I don't understand the confusion. ~Cy
#4 dandu Jul 17, 2009 15:44:50	It's just... seriously, a crossbow duct taped to a warhammer? I mean... just... I... ARGH!
#5 madtitanfan Jul 17, 2009 15:50:51	My Favorite choice for Greater Might Wallop is The Great Horn Minotaur Hammer from MM4 (Page 100) If you can Find a Med one it does 1d12 Dam with a 19-20 Crit Range and a x4 Multiplier!!! A large one does 3d6. Meaning a 12 Lvl Caster could make that a 8d6. Its my Gish Weapon on Choice.
#6 Balthanon Jul 17, 2009 21:22:04	Since the weapon is dealing damage separately, once with bludgeoning damage and once with piercing (rather than doing both at once like a morningstar), it would probably be fairly easy to say that greater mighty whallop only affects the bludgeoning portion. That would be an amusing weapon to bring into a campaign though, particularly if you're playing a traditional gnomish tinker or the like.
#7 nephew_of_istvan Jul 18, 2009 13:04:26	I use GMW to aid my party's Raging Berserker, he uses the Executioner's Axe. From what I see about the War Spikard, yes, it would work. Ranged weapons deal damage based not on the size of the projectile, but on the size of the weapon itself, and the weapon's effective size is being increased, so the projectile portion would also deal extra damage.
#8 siranui Jul 19, 2009 4:09:05	I think you may be pushing the GM's patience, claiming GMW on the crossbow part by dint of the rules not going into excruciating detail. I've dropped interstellar pianos on players for less! "seriously, a crossbow duct taped to a warhammer? I mean... just... I... ARGH!" Hey... it's FAR more sensible than the dire flail and mercurial swords. Oddly, WOTC never got back to me on my 'what moron decided mercurial weapons would work?' email.
#9 tytalus Jul 19, 2009 5:58:54	I think you may be pushing the GM's patience, claiming GMW on the crossbow part by dint of the rules not going into excruciating detail. I've dropped interstellar pianos on players for less! Still, the rules explicitly say that the bolt damage depends on weapon size. "seriously, a crossbow duct taped to a warhammer? I mean... just... I... ARGH!" Hey... it's FAR more sensible than the dire flail and mercurial swords. I'm no so sure; look: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91492.jpg But there's plenty of "it would never work" weapons in 3.5 D&D, such as the Gyrospike (sword + flail) and the double bow, for example. Both from the Arms & Equipment guide, which is notorious for its bad artwork: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/aeg_gallery/50040.jpg And then there's artists who don't understand how weapons work, as shown here, where the hand guard of the Quick-Blade Rapier [CAdv, p.117] is facing the wrong way, rendering the weapon essentially useless: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cx_gallery/86396.jpg
#10 siranui Jul 19, 2009 9:37:55	"Still, the rules explicitly say that the bolt damage depends on weapon size." Rules < common sense Via the same logic, once could cast GMW on the pommel of a sword, then claim increased strength damage. Any GM worth playing with will veto this one. I'd not noticed the pic of the quickblade before. Doh! Mercurial weapons are worse even than the plain 'dumb' weapons because they are not only 'dumb' to use on at least two different levels, but nigh-impossible to manufacture [drill a hole in a sword, lengthways, anyone? Without making it weaker?] and in defiance of the laws of nature [mercury I believe is absorbed my steel].
#11 Grumman Jul 19, 2009 10:54:37	That would be an amusing weapon to bring into a campaign though, particularly if you're playing a traditional gnomish tinker or the like. "Look out! They've got a ~~board~~ hammer with a nail in it!"
#12 atomickitkat Jul 19, 2009 11:48:01	Mercurial weapons aren't really that bad. It's just, they're more suited to making some kind of iron-stave(figuring out how to make a steel pipe using Middle Ages/Rennaisance technology is another set of problems on its own).
#13 dandu Jul 19, 2009 11:56:13	Magic.
#14 zaxter Jul 19, 2009 13:06:47	Magic. +1
#15 cycada Jul 19, 2009 14:13:03	I think you may be pushing the GM's patience, claiming GMW on the crossbow part by dint of the rules not going into excruciating detail. I've dropped interstellar pianos on players for less! "seriously, a crossbow duct taped to a warhammer? I mean... just... I... ARGH!" Hey... it's FAR more sensible than the dire flail and mercurial swords. Oddly, WOTC never got back to me on my 'what moron decided mercurial weapons would work?' email. And you think that half the stuff on this board is any less of a patience pusher? :P Come ooooon. Welcome to CO! ~Cy P.s. Dire flails are completely impossible to use realistically, a flail irl uses momentum built up by swing it over your head, etc, which is impossible to do with a dire flail. Flails as a whole werent used much in war because of how ackward and dangerous they were to employ. Lastly, mercurial weapons actually have some merit, considering we use hammers now that rely on the same concept. Increasing the mass at the end of a blow might be hard to achieve, it still is definently effective. Who's to say the sword has to be double edged? A simple tube of mercury running down the back of the blade in a reinforced shell would work well enough.
#16 ikildkenny Jul 19, 2009 14:56:57	[mercury I believe is absorbed my steel]. in fact it is the other way around - after some time the mercury would dissolve the surrounding metal/steel completely ... but seriously, we are discussing in a world, where little peoply with hairy feet shoot little bulbs of colored light out of there palms and grown men can crawl into a infant's rear hole only by beiing agile enough ...
#17 tytalus Jul 19, 2009 16:22:07	in fact it is the other way around - after some time the mercury would dissolve the surrounding metal/steel completely ... but seriously, we are discussing in a world, where little peoply with hairy feet shoot little bulbs of colored light out of there palms and grown men can crawl into a infant's rear hole only by beiing agile enough ... Fact is, these weapons do exist in non-magic version, which makes little sense. That magic doesn't exist in our world is not a good argument against common sense for D&D.