A bit of anti-railroading - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

A bit of anti-railroading

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
wjliii3
Nov 12, 2008 11:00:53 A person on /tg/ has posited an issue they are having with their DM, wherein he has sicced an assassin on him and made it clear the character is going to die. As you might expect, he's a bit peeved about this. Now, he hasn't had the opportunity to talk to his DM about why yet, but, for preparation's sake, he'd like to be able to survive.

Background done. The character is a level 25 Wizard/Archivist/Psion/Pyrokineticist. The exact build hasn't been stated, but I believe its Wizard 5/Archivist 5/Psion 5/Pyro 10. Weird build, I know. The assassin after him is of unknown class, but he's level 40. The DM won't tell him the class at all, so no-go on that, but he's "build specifically to kill" the character, and will always be 15 levels higher, leveling as the char levels.

So, is there any way, with 3rd level spells of both forms and powers, to create some sort of victory? Is there any no-escape combo with the spells available to him that will let him prevail?
#2
Maat_Mons
Nov 12, 2008 12:39:12 Presumably, an assassin built specifically to kill this character will have SR 30 and immunity to fire damage. Maybe there’s some sort of item combo that could help.
#3
manawar
Nov 12, 2008 12:45:31 Hmm... the Assassin may have a few levels in Occult Slayer, in which case the wizard may be screwed. This happened in my group's epic campaign, except they were Glooms specifically built to kill each party member individually while we slept.

If he has the Craft Contingent Spell feat, he could set the parameters to whenever a non-visible foe attempts to strike him a Blink goes off, giving him a 50/50 shot of living or dying.

It would be much better if he knew the assassin's name, in which case he could set the parameter using the name, never having to worry about any other NPC attacking him from hiding/invisibility.

As for successfully "winning" against this Assassin... the only thing that comes to mind is either Force Cage or Wall of Force. But since those are not third level spells... he is most likely screwed.
#4
phaedrusxy
Nov 12, 2008 12:50:10 That is the worst freakin' build I've ever seen. It deserves to die.
#5
emansdrawkcab
Nov 12, 2008 13:34:52
Presumably, an assassin built specifically to kill this character will have a peg leg, no arms and still enjoy the wonders of basket weaving.

Fixed that for you...
#6
eldariel
Nov 12, 2008 14:28:52 If he just had Epic Spellcasting, he wouldn't be in any danger. As it stands, he's about equal to a level 15 character in power. I have no doubts the assassin is equally crappy a build and wouldn't be any better than level 20 Wizard in absolute terms, but that's too much for this pile of bs.
#7
Maat_Mons
Nov 12, 2008 14:29:36
Fixed that for you...

The DM has stated that the assassin will be built specifically to kill this character. Given that goal, if the DM can negate the characters “strengths” without committing a prohibitive amount of resources, that would be a reasonable course of action. Both qualities I mentioned can be given to an NPC very easily and are very well known. I estimate the odds that the DM would not think of doing this to be low. These qualities also combine to severely hamper the apparent strategies of the PC.

If the DM thought of this, his only motivation for not giving these qualities to the assassin would be that he devised something the PC will have even more trouble dealing with. For this reason, I feel that the SR/fire immunity combo can be used as a reasonable lower bound on the difficulty the PC will have attacking the assassin.

The most useful thing to do that I can think of is to assume the PC will face this hypothetical foe, and determine if he can do anything effective. If he has no chance against the lower bound he should not have a chance against the actual assassin.

Since my attempts to address the issue of this thread are not to your liking, perhaps you have something useful to contribute.
#8
snex
Nov 12, 2008 14:38:48 the best way to foil an idiot DM like this is to stop showing up to his games. if he revels in killing off the PCs with unfair methods just for the sake of killing them, then take that ability away from him and game without him.
#9
idontmuchcareforit
Nov 12, 2008 14:44:11 My suggestion is a little complex so i'll lay it out in steps.

1. let the character die

tell him that next time he builds a character, if it's level 25 nothing should be able to touch it. i mean nothing.

Also... why are you guys playing so far into epic?
#10
Maat_Mons
Nov 12, 2008 14:47:50
the best way to foil an idiot DM like this is to stop showing up to his games. if he revels in killing off the PCs with unfair methods just for the sake of killing them, then take that ability away from him and game without him.

To be fair, it’s entirely possible that this exceptionally weak character is a hindrance to the group and the DM is trying to force the PC to build a new character in line with the other players so everyone can have fun.
#11
emansdrawkcab
Nov 12, 2008 15:01:08 To post #7: It's okay, you'll get jokes one day. What I mean by my post wasn't that your post was bad, but that the PC was so bad an armless, peg legged, beasket weaver could kill it.
#12
altpersona
Nov 12, 2008 15:21:31 candle of invocation?
#13
stpetegamer
Nov 12, 2008 15:23:40
To post #7: It's okay, you'll get jokes one day. What I mean by my post wasn't that your post was bad, but that the PC was so bad an armless, peg legged, beasket weaver could kill it.

If you knew this and with the info from the above post why not just let the guy die and have him make a 25th level wizard so he can really be effective?
#14
emansdrawkcab
Nov 12, 2008 17:40:15
If you knew this and with the info from the above post why not just let the guy die and have him make a 25th level wizard so he can really be effective?

Wow... What's with people with no sense of humor jumping down my throat? I was taking a stab at the build. Done. How did I offend anyone? The OP isn't even the guy with the terrible build...
#15
bruceleeroy
Nov 12, 2008 20:23:50 Best advice for him:

Take out an insurance policy on his current character, with the beneficiary being his new character, which should be something like a Wiz5/Incantantrix10/Archmage2/IotSfV8 with Craft Contingency.
#16
emansdrawkcab
Nov 12, 2008 20:25:57
Best advice for him:

Take out an insurance policy on his current character, with the benficiary being his new character, which should be somthing like a Wiz5/Incantantrix10/Archmage2/IotSfV8 with Craft Contingency.

BAHAHAHAH! I like it!
#17
NiteCyper
Nov 13, 2008 0:47:26
Wiz5/Incantantrix10/Archmage2/IotSfV8

:heehee
#18
bruceleeroy
Nov 13, 2008 2:03:04
:heehee

Damnit! My newbiness is showing. I meant IotSfV7/Ninja1.
#19
thewizardofthecoast
Nov 19, 2008 16:51:21 Okay, DM kills me. My next 25 level character is a wizard 3/cleric 3/mystic theurge X/whatever else advances both spell progressions X/etc. Then the new character ressurects the old character, who is now one level lower and thus even crappier. Then he mind controls him/permanent dominates him/whatever, and I use my old character more than my new one, just using my new one to keep resurrecting my old one again and again.

Alternatively, if the DM thinks that my character is too weak, give me more magic items/roleplaying power (I'm the King of Suchandsuch)/XP.
#20
muertog
Nov 19, 2008 19:03:03 lol. Mystic Theurge, True Necromancer. I am amused.
#21
khorus
Nov 20, 2008 12:59:13 New char to ressurect old one. But have your current char blow himself up and scatter the ashes all about the area so the dm can't Hijack your body.
#22
tshern
Nov 20, 2008 14:29:34
Damnit! My newbiness is showing. I meant IotSfV7/Ninja1.

Ninja? NINJA!?!
#23
bruceleeroy
Nov 20, 2008 17:06:12 Sure. Ninja sauce makes everything taste better.

It's true.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 wjliii3 Nov 12, 2008 11:00:53	A person on /tg/ has posited an issue they are having with their DM, wherein he has sicced an assassin on him and made it clear the character is going to die. As you might expect, he's a bit peeved about this. Now, he hasn't had the opportunity to talk to his DM about why yet, but, for preparation's sake, he'd like to be able to survive. Background done. The character is a level 25 Wizard/Archivist/Psion/Pyrokineticist. The exact build hasn't been stated, but I believe its Wizard 5/Archivist 5/Psion 5/Pyro 10. Weird build, I know. The assassin after him is of unknown class, but he's level 40. The DM won't tell him the class at all, so no-go on that, but he's "build specifically to kill" the character, and will always be 15 levels higher, leveling as the char levels. So, is there any way, with 3rd level spells of both forms and powers, to create some sort of victory? Is there any no-escape combo with the spells available to him that will let him prevail?
#2 Maat_Mons Nov 12, 2008 12:39:12	Presumably, an assassin built specifically to kill this character will have SR 30 and immunity to fire damage. Maybe there’s some sort of item combo that could help.
#3 manawar Nov 12, 2008 12:45:31	Hmm... the Assassin may have a few levels in Occult Slayer, in which case the wizard may be screwed. This happened in my group's epic campaign, except they were Glooms specifically built to kill each party member individually while we slept. If he has the Craft Contingent Spell feat, he could set the parameters to whenever a non-visible foe attempts to strike him a Blink goes off, giving him a 50/50 shot of living or dying. It would be much better if he knew the assassin's name, in which case he could set the parameter using the name, never having to worry about any other NPC attacking him from hiding/invisibility. As for successfully "winning" against this Assassin... the only thing that comes to mind is either Force Cage or Wall of Force. But since those are not third level spells... he is most likely screwed.
#4 phaedrusxy Nov 12, 2008 12:50:10	That is the worst freakin' build I've ever seen. It deserves to die.
#5 emansdrawkcab Nov 12, 2008 13:34:52	Presumably, an assassin built specifically to kill this character will have a peg leg, no arms and still enjoy the wonders of basket weaving. Fixed that for you...
#6 eldariel Nov 12, 2008 14:28:52	If he just had Epic Spellcasting, he wouldn't be in any danger. As it stands, he's about equal to a level 15 character in power. I have no doubts the assassin is equally crappy a build and wouldn't be any better than level 20 Wizard in absolute terms, but that's too much for this pile of bs.
#7 Maat_Mons Nov 12, 2008 14:29:36	Fixed that for you... The DM has stated that the assassin will be built specifically to kill this character. Given that goal, if the DM can negate the characters “strengths” without committing a prohibitive amount of resources, that would be a reasonable course of action. Both qualities I mentioned can be given to an NPC very easily and are very well known. I estimate the odds that the DM would not think of doing this to be low. These qualities also combine to severely hamper the apparent strategies of the PC. If the DM thought of this, his only motivation for not giving these qualities to the assassin would be that he devised something the PC will have even more trouble dealing with. For this reason, I feel that the SR/fire immunity combo can be used as a reasonable lower bound on the difficulty the PC will have attacking the assassin. The most useful thing to do that I can think of is to assume the PC will face this hypothetical foe, and determine if he can do anything effective. If he has no chance against the lower bound he should not have a chance against the actual assassin. Since my attempts to address the issue of this thread are not to your liking, perhaps you have something useful to contribute.
#8 snex Nov 12, 2008 14:38:48	the best way to foil an idiot DM like this is to stop showing up to his games. if he revels in killing off the PCs with unfair methods just for the sake of killing them, then take that ability away from him and game without him.
#9 idontmuchcareforit Nov 12, 2008 14:44:11	My suggestion is a little complex so i'll lay it out in steps. 1. let the character die tell him that next time he builds a character, if it's level 25 nothing should be able to touch it. i mean nothing. Also... why are you guys playing so far into epic?
#10 Maat_Mons Nov 12, 2008 14:47:50	the best way to foil an idiot DM like this is to stop showing up to his games. if he revels in killing off the PCs with unfair methods just for the sake of killing them, then take that ability away from him and game without him. To be fair, it’s entirely possible that this exceptionally weak character is a hindrance to the group and the DM is trying to force the PC to build a new character in line with the other players so everyone can have fun.
#11 emansdrawkcab Nov 12, 2008 15:01:08	To post #7: It's okay, you'll get jokes one day. What I mean by my post wasn't that your post was bad, but that the PC was so bad an armless, peg legged, beasket weaver could kill it.
#12 altpersona Nov 12, 2008 15:21:31	candle of invocation?
#13 stpetegamer Nov 12, 2008 15:23:40	To post #7: It's okay, you'll get jokes one day. What I mean by my post wasn't that your post was bad, but that the PC was so bad an armless, peg legged, beasket weaver could kill it. If you knew this and with the info from the above post why not just let the guy die and have him make a 25th level wizard so he can really be effective?
#14 emansdrawkcab Nov 12, 2008 17:40:15	If you knew this and with the info from the above post why not just let the guy die and have him make a 25th level wizard so he can really be effective? Wow... What's with people with no sense of humor jumping down my throat? I was taking a stab at the build. Done. How did I offend anyone? The OP isn't even the guy with the terrible build...
#15 bruceleeroy Nov 12, 2008 20:23:50	Best advice for him: Take out an insurance policy on his current character, with the beneficiary being his new character, which should be something like a Wiz5/Incantantrix10/Archmage2/IotSfV8 with Craft Contingency.
#16 emansdrawkcab Nov 12, 2008 20:25:57	Best advice for him: Take out an insurance policy on his current character, with the benficiary being his new character, which should be somthing like a Wiz5/Incantantrix10/Archmage2/IotSfV8 with Craft Contingency. BAHAHAHAH! I like it!
#17 NiteCyper Nov 13, 2008 0:47:26	Wiz5/Incantantrix10/Archmage2/IotSfV8 :heehee
#18 bruceleeroy Nov 13, 2008 2:03:04	:heehee Damnit! My newbiness is showing. I meant IotSfV7/Ninja1.
#19 thewizardofthecoast Nov 19, 2008 16:51:21	Okay, DM kills me. My next 25 level character is a wizard 3/cleric 3/mystic theurge X/whatever else advances both spell progressions X/etc. Then the new character ressurects the old character, who is now one level lower and thus even crappier. Then he mind controls him/permanent dominates him/whatever, and I use my old character more than my new one, just using my new one to keep resurrecting my old one again and again. Alternatively, if the DM thinks that my character is too weak, give me more magic items/roleplaying power (I'm the King of Suchandsuch)/XP.
#20 muertog Nov 19, 2008 19:03:03	lol. Mystic Theurge, True Necromancer. I am amused.
#21 khorus Nov 20, 2008 12:59:13	New char to ressurect old one. But have your current char blow himself up and scatter the ashes all about the area so the dm can't Hijack your body.
#22 tshern Nov 20, 2008 14:29:34	Damnit! My newbiness is showing. I meant IotSfV7/Ninja1. Ninja? NINJA!?!
#23 bruceleeroy Nov 20, 2008 17:06:12	Sure. Ninja sauce makes everything taste better. It's true.