A bull rusher who can't bull rush

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

slawson

Apr 08, 2008 12:07:57
My DM wanted to slow down my damage output so he made the encounters all take place in caverns with high ceilings and all the beasties we encounter hover low enough to be in melee, but high enough that I can't push them into anything. The other things we face are oozes.

I built my whole character (goliath fight 6, power attack, dungeon crasher, improved bull rush, knock back, heavy lithoderms, trophy collector) around the bull rush. Any ideas on where to go from here? In three more levels life gets hard for a fighter so I need to start working on another path, but I was hoping to enjoy life at this level.

Please help.
#2

mplindustries

Apr 08, 2008 12:21:15
If you can hit them, you can bullrush them. I don't really understand how you are being prevented from doing your thing...

Anyway, a fun thing to do against flying enemies is Trip. If you succeed they stall and fall out of the sky.
#3

squashmonster

Apr 08, 2008 12:28:12
Get a reach weapon and Shock Trooper. Use Shock Trooper's bull rush redirecting feature to curve them into the ground.
#4

brainpiercing

Apr 08, 2008 12:28:43
Learn to fly and hammer them into the ground. (This works with directed bull-rush from Shock Trooper. If you don't have it, retrain it or get it somehow.)

Retrain to Leap Attack+Diving charge with enough jump to do standing jumps above the critters. They are low-flying, and if you do it right you can get some impressive bonuses on jump checks. There is also some substitution level for something that can do standing jumps instead of running jumps without any penalties. (or learn to fly.) And of course, once you're above them - hammer them into the ground.

I've always wondered what happens when you trip a flrying creature. Theoretically it should be possible, but there just aren't any rules, AFAIK.

If there is a party caster (druid I think), have him cast "Downdraft" on the critters (which drops them by 50' even if they make their save) and then slam them into whatever.

Reckless charge from Shock-trooper + Leap attack will always work to rack up the damage with a two-handed weapon.

And finally, throw stuff at your DM every time he bugs you like that. Everyone wants to have fun at the gaming table, YOU want to have fun, too. Make that clear to him.
#5

aiden_bautista

Apr 08, 2008 12:29:47
If you have it and you don't mind, you can use Races of the Dragon. Pray to Bahamut and become a Dragonborn (with the wings). Now you can bullrush from several new angles. It could also work well with the Trophy Collector (trophies from your draconic enemies).
#6

aiden_bautista

Apr 08, 2008 12:32:22
There is also some substitution level for something that can do standing jumps instead of running jumps without any penalties. (or learn to fly.)

I think Goliaths can make these jumps anyways due to Mountain Movement.
#7

aftercrescent

Apr 08, 2008 12:37:17
Crack open ToB. Dip crusader. Pick up Thicket and get some of those stone dragon maneuver (beautiful for a goliath, btw) and start BC them. Make them go where you want them to...
#8

stickboy2323

Apr 08, 2008 12:54:15
Grapple 'em. Prepare an action to grapple any creature flying overhead and snatch it right out of the sky. Pretty soon your DM will probably let you get back to bullrushing because he wont want to deal with grapple checks every round.
#9

herrdoktor

Apr 08, 2008 13:02:10
Crack open ToB. Dip crusader. Pick up Thicket and get some of those stone dragon maneuver (beautiful for a goliath, btw) and start BC them. Make them go where you want them to...

do be aware that stone dragon maneuvers technically only work when you're in contact with the ground (silly fluff, but it's in there). it may fit the character (damn flyers! i'll attack you with the power of the earth!), but note that it won't work while flying
#10

aftercrescent

Apr 08, 2008 13:13:56
True, but combined with Thicket and shock trooper, you should be able to BC, bring them to the ground, and immobilize them
#11

sillia

Apr 08, 2008 13:24:54
I don't think the problem is that he can't bull rush, the problem is that he can't dungeon crash his enemies into heavy objects for the dungeon crash bonus.

That's actually not so bad. Remember that bull rushing through other peoples' threatened squares still provokes AoOs, so work with your teammates. Push the enemies through your friends' threatened squares and they'll get their free AoOs on the guys. Best of all, it requires no retraining, no new feats, no new anything... just some better positioning.

--S
#12

Person_Man

Apr 08, 2008 13:55:22
This is a common problem for any optimized melee build. No matter what you do, it takes a significant amount of resources to do it. And once you do it well, your DM will mix up encounters in such a way that you won't dominate the game with it.

You've got a great combo. Now its time to move on to another combo.

Retrain heavy lithoderms and trophy collector. They provide minor bonuses. Better choices would be Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, Battle Jump, (Unapproachable East), or Pierce Magical Concealment.

Buy a broom of flying, a flying carpet, an ebony fly, wings of flying, or any of the various grafts that let you fly. Steer enemies into the ceiling or walls with your bull rushes. Or just buy a Ring of Improved Jumping and take Leap of Heavens or other some other jumping feat.

Take a level of Pyrokineticist. Now you have reach and touch attacks. The FAQ even specifies that you can use a fire lash like a whip with Power Attack as a two handed weapon. Have a friend cast Greater Invisibility on you, or take the Pierce Magical Concealment feat (Comp Arcane) and buy a Ring of Blinking. Now you hit most enemies on anything but a natural 1.

Diversify: This is probably your best option. Head into Psion 1/Slayer X or Warmind or a Tome of Battle class/PrC. Pick up a variety of powers/maneuvers, so that you can fight different enemies.
#13

brainpiercing

Apr 08, 2008 13:58:35
Still, whatever he does, there is no excuse for not having Shock Trooper in a Bull-rushing build.
#14

mugzug

Apr 08, 2008 17:23:18
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=988453

That will solve all your problems. Basically it is a detailed explanation of the very build you are trying, with a dragonborn twist! Flying solves all of these issues. Do not forget you can bullrush into ceilings, walls, etc. If you have a spellcaster, you can make walls of ice and bullrush them into that etc.

Also ring of the brute is nice (MiC) for the ranged bullrush that works with your dungeon crasher ability.