A challenge - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

A challenge

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ookamikiba
Dec 09, 2008 18:14:31 My DM has decided that for our new campaign she's going to challenge me. Because I'm good (read: better than the others) at optimization, she wants me to do something different. I've already read through the info on using low stats, but I'm a little lost.

The challenge is this: I have no base score and 70 stat points to allocate. Mind you that this is not a point buy, I merely have 70 points to place in my various stats. Unfortunately, my prediciment is confouded by the fact that this is 3.5 core-only.

We start at level 1 and could very well end up at level 20 at the end. I would use a Necropolitan, but she's very clear on the core-only. Also, I'm required to be Human for this campaign.

I hope someone can give me a hand here. Thanks,
OokamiKiba
#2
snex
Dec 09, 2008 18:41:05 druid 20
#3
tana_san
Dec 09, 2008 19:14:56 Druid 20 + Natural Spell = Win!
This may help you.

The challenge is this: I have no base score and 70 stat points to allocate. Mind you that this is not a point buy, I merely have 70 points to place in my various stats. Unfortunately, my prediciment is confouded by the fact that this is 3.5 core-only.

As for stats:
Show
Str 8
Dex 10
Con 14 (or 10)
Wis 18 (or 24)
Int 10
Cha 10 (or 8)
#4
ookamikiba
Dec 09, 2008 19:23:34
Druid 20 + Natural Spell
As for stats:
Show
Str 8
Dex 10
Con 14 (or 10)
Wis 18 (or 24)
Int 10
Cha 10 (or 8)
#5
thegodhead
Dec 09, 2008 20:03:13 Human

18 wis, 18 con, 10 str 6 dex 8 cha 10 int

Sure, your dex sucks, but that doesn't really matter.

Druid of course.
1) SF:Conjuration
H) Improved Init
3) Augment Summoning
6) Natural spell
#6
vglcat
Dec 09, 2008 21:11:34 if playing a druid core can you use all mm's? because at 4 you MUST use fleshraker dino mm3:D
#7
ookamikiba
Dec 09, 2008 21:50:30
Human

18 wis, 18 con, 10 str 6 dex 8 cha 10 int

Sure, your dex sucks, but that doesn't really matter.

What do I need the Con so high for? I don't have the polymorph errata bogging me down. I still get my Con boost from Wild Shape, right?
#8
jenos
Dec 09, 2008 22:28:29 You could definitely drop it down, but remember that you are starting at level 1. If you gimp everything in favor of wisdom, you risk outright dying in the first few levels. While I wouldn't put con at 18, I would definitely nab at least a 14 in con. I find that its not until level 7 or so that wildshaping is more powerful - there are times when you just can't afford to stay in a wolf form when you need to tell your party that eating that plant is probably bad for them(Mainly because its a sleeping tendriculos)

My stats would probably look like: 8 Str, 10 Dex, 14 Con, 10 Int, 20 Wis, 8 Cha.

You don't want to be dead weight in the party for the first five levels - at least be able to marginally survive to cast your spells.
#9
thegodhead
Dec 09, 2008 22:47:39
What do I need the Con so high for? I don't have the polymorph errata bogging me down. I still get my Con boost from Wild Shape, right?

Because you want to survive the first five levels and the other stats don't matter. Int? You have 4 skill points already. Str? Wildshape or let your riding dog deal damage while you cast. Dex? See str. Cha? Who needs this.

Wis>Con> rest for druids WS erratta or not
#10
ookamikiba
Dec 10, 2008 17:03:49 Ok, I think that the general feeling is that Con is good enough to spend points. Works for me. The other thing that comes to mind is the question of animal companion.

Thankfully, this is an eight-player game and at least a couple of our characters rolled god-stats. I'm glad that someone can handle the skills while I cast away. Speaking of that...what spells are good? Since the Vigor tree is out, that means no fun healing. I assume that Summon Nature's Ally will be good for a while...
#11
vglcat
Dec 10, 2008 17:05:53 so what about monster manuals?
#12
thegodhead
Dec 10, 2008 18:46:11 Entangle is god at level 1.
#13
vglcat
Dec 10, 2008 19:09:49 and another post ignores the question.
#14
ookamikiba
Dec 10, 2008 19:26:39
and another post ignores the question.

I'm trying to find out. I haven't been able to get a hold of my DM yet. In the meantime, assume that Monster Manual 3.5 is the only one allowed.
#15
vglcat
Dec 10, 2008 19:29:33 ok cause fleshraker dino charges pounce 2 claws tail 2 bites all poisin followed by trip attempt.
#16
ookamikiba
Dec 10, 2008 19:31:04
ok cause fleshraker dino charges pounce 2 claws tail 2 bites all poisin followed by trip attempt.

I know ^^. If I can sell her on it...I'm so there, I just doubt it. *shrug* I wish I could. Failing that, anything from MM1 that I should keep in mind, companion or Wild Shape wise?
#17
thegodhead
Dec 10, 2008 19:45:19
I know ^^. If I can sell her on it...I'm so there, I just doubt it. *shrug* I wish I could. Failing that, anything from MM1 that I should keep in mind, companion or Wild Shape wise?

For WS:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#deinonychus (for charging)
or
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direApe.htm (for using a club and wearing all your gear)

Large:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direWolf.htm (for tripping)
or
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direLion.htm (for charging)

Animal companion goes from riding dog trained for war to brown bear.
#18
ookamikiba
Dec 10, 2008 19:58:33 Thank you. Is there anything else? I'm always looking for a little edge. Besides, my DM is expecting me to optimize, so I'd better or I'm going to die.
#19
vglcat
Dec 10, 2008 20:04:04 well i belive there's a guide out there for things to wild shape into.... IF ONLY I HAD A LINK!!! i'm sorry.
#20
ookamikiba
Dec 10, 2008 20:28:27
well i belive there's a guide out there for things to wild shape into.... IF ONLY I HAD A LINK!!! i'm sorry.

s'ok. Is there any more advice on spells? Oh, before I forget, any thoughts on equipment?
#21
jenos
Dec 10, 2008 20:54:03 Level 1 equipment just the essentials. Hide armor, some slings/throwing spears, rations/bedroll, etc. You don't want to go into melee with your stats so no need for a quarterstaff or the like, but quarterstaffs are cheap so might as well pick it up for shillelagh.
#22
ookamikiba
Dec 10, 2008 21:00:27
Level 1 equipment just the essentials. Hide armor, some slings/throwing spears, rations/bedroll, etc. You don't want to go into melee with your stats so no need for a quarterstaff or the like, but quarterstaffs are cheap so might as well pick it up for shillelagh.

*Nod**nod* *takes more notes* *mumbles* avoid melee...chuck spears...avoid melee...hide armor...avoid melee...

Any other spells?
#23
jenos
Dec 10, 2008 22:09:35 Spells?

As for spells theres not a lot. Core only spells, right? If so, magic weapon on your AC will prove pretty useful, considering its probably going to be doing as much damage as any other melee member of your party. If you're in a position to use it, entangle is a handy battlefield control spell, obscuring mist to a lesser degree. Produce flame is your nuke. At level 1 SNA lasts a whopping 1 round, not worth it at all. CLW in 1 slot, but a well placed entangle will often prove to be more useful. Considering you have lots of spells, longstrider could be useful to run away better.

Depending on your campaign pass without trace could be wonderful. A pass without trace used appropriately could mean a world of difference, but it comes down to if your DM will actually use tracking and the like. Faerie Fire if you know you'll be up against invis foes, but not particularly useful as you need to know where they are.

One item I forgot to mention is barding if you get a riding dog AC. A set of barding for your companion could easily make him better than your fighter in every way possible in terms of dealing/taking damage.
#24
ookamikiba
Dec 11, 2008 23:39:56 Interesting news. My DM is letting me apply the Woodling template to my Animal Companion. She wants the Druid to focus on plants, because animals are being covered by our rangers. While it doesn't become a plant, it's close enough. Does this change the choice of companion?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ookamikiba Dec 09, 2008 18:14:31	My DM has decided that for our new campaign she's going to challenge me. Because I'm good (read: better than the others) at optimization, she wants me to do something different. I've already read through the info on using low stats, but I'm a little lost. The challenge is this: I have no base score and 70 stat points to allocate. Mind you that this is not a point buy, I merely have 70 points to place in my various stats. Unfortunately, my prediciment is confouded by the fact that this is 3.5 core-only. We start at level 1 and could very well end up at level 20 at the end. I would use a Necropolitan, but she's very clear on the core-only. Also, I'm required to be Human for this campaign. I hope someone can give me a hand here. Thanks, OokamiKiba
#2 snex Dec 09, 2008 18:41:05	druid 20
#3 tana_san Dec 09, 2008 19:14:56	Druid 20 + Natural Spell = Win! This may help you. The challenge is this: I have no base score and 70 stat points to allocate. Mind you that this is not a point buy, I merely have 70 points to place in my various stats. Unfortunately, my prediciment is confouded by the fact that this is 3.5 core-only. As for stats: Show Str 8 Dex 10 Con 14 (or 10) Wis 18 (or 24) Int 10 Cha 10 (or 8)
#4 ookamikiba Dec 09, 2008 19:23:34	Druid 20 + Natural Spell As for stats: Show Str 8 Dex 10 Con 14 (or 10) Wis 18 (or 24) Int 10 Cha 10 (or 8)
#5 thegodhead Dec 09, 2008 20:03:13	Human 18 wis, 18 con, 10 str 6 dex 8 cha 10 int Sure, your dex sucks, but that doesn't really matter. Druid of course. 1) SF:Conjuration H) Improved Init 3) Augment Summoning 6) Natural spell
#6 vglcat Dec 09, 2008 21:11:34	if playing a druid core can you use all mm's? because at 4 you MUST use fleshraker dino mm3:D
#7 ookamikiba Dec 09, 2008 21:50:30	Human 18 wis, 18 con, 10 str 6 dex 8 cha 10 int Sure, your dex sucks, but that doesn't really matter. What do I need the Con so high for? I don't have the polymorph errata bogging me down. I still get my Con boost from Wild Shape, right?
#8 jenos Dec 09, 2008 22:28:29	You could definitely drop it down, but remember that you are starting at level 1. If you gimp everything in favor of wisdom, you risk outright dying in the first few levels. While I wouldn't put con at 18, I would definitely nab at least a 14 in con. I find that its not until level 7 or so that wildshaping is more powerful - there are times when you just can't afford to stay in a wolf form when you need to tell your party that eating that plant is probably bad for them(Mainly because its a sleeping tendriculos) My stats would probably look like: 8 Str, 10 Dex, 14 Con, 10 Int, 20 Wis, 8 Cha. You don't want to be dead weight in the party for the first five levels - at least be able to marginally survive to cast your spells.
#9 thegodhead Dec 09, 2008 22:47:39	What do I need the Con so high for? I don't have the polymorph errata bogging me down. I still get my Con boost from Wild Shape, right? Because you want to survive the first five levels and the other stats don't matter. Int? You have 4 skill points already. Str? Wildshape or let your riding dog deal damage while you cast. Dex? See str. Cha? Who needs this. Wis>Con> rest for druids WS erratta or not
#10 ookamikiba Dec 10, 2008 17:03:49	Ok, I think that the general feeling is that Con is good enough to spend points. Works for me. The other thing that comes to mind is the question of animal companion. Thankfully, this is an eight-player game and at least a couple of our characters rolled god-stats. I'm glad that someone can handle the skills while I cast away. Speaking of that...what spells are good? Since the Vigor tree is out, that means no fun healing. I assume that Summon Nature's Ally will be good for a while...
#11 vglcat Dec 10, 2008 17:05:53	so what about monster manuals?
#12 thegodhead Dec 10, 2008 18:46:11	Entangle is god at level 1.
#13 vglcat Dec 10, 2008 19:09:49	and another post ignores the question.
#14 ookamikiba Dec 10, 2008 19:26:39	and another post ignores the question. I'm trying to find out. I haven't been able to get a hold of my DM yet. In the meantime, assume that Monster Manual 3.5 is the only one allowed.
#15 vglcat Dec 10, 2008 19:29:33	ok cause fleshraker dino charges pounce 2 claws tail 2 bites all poisin followed by trip attempt.
#16 ookamikiba Dec 10, 2008 19:31:04	ok cause fleshraker dino charges pounce 2 claws tail 2 bites all poisin followed by trip attempt. I know ^^. If I can sell her on it...I'm so there, I just doubt it. shrug I wish I could. Failing that, anything from MM1 that I should keep in mind, companion or Wild Shape wise?
#17 thegodhead Dec 10, 2008 19:45:19	I know ^^. If I can sell her on it...I'm so there, I just doubt it. shrug I wish I could. Failing that, anything from MM1 that I should keep in mind, companion or Wild Shape wise? For WS: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#deinonychus (for charging) or http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direApe.htm (for using a club and wearing all your gear) Large: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direWolf.htm (for tripping) or http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direLion.htm (for charging) Animal companion goes from riding dog trained for war to brown bear.
#18 ookamikiba Dec 10, 2008 19:58:33	Thank you. Is there anything else? I'm always looking for a little edge. Besides, my DM is expecting me to optimize, so I'd better or I'm going to die.
#19 vglcat Dec 10, 2008 20:04:04	well i belive there's a guide out there for things to wild shape into.... IF ONLY I HAD A LINK!!! i'm sorry.
#20 ookamikiba Dec 10, 2008 20:28:27	well i belive there's a guide out there for things to wild shape into.... IF ONLY I HAD A LINK!!! i'm sorry. s'ok. Is there any more advice on spells? Oh, before I forget, any thoughts on equipment?
#21 jenos Dec 10, 2008 20:54:03	Level 1 equipment just the essentials. Hide armor, some slings/throwing spears, rations/bedroll, etc. You don't want to go into melee with your stats so no need for a quarterstaff or the like, but quarterstaffs are cheap so might as well pick it up for shillelagh.
#22 ookamikiba Dec 10, 2008 21:00:27	Level 1 equipment just the essentials. Hide armor, some slings/throwing spears, rations/bedroll, etc. You don't want to go into melee with your stats so no need for a quarterstaff or the like, but quarterstaffs are cheap so might as well pick it up for shillelagh. Nodnod takes more notes mumbles avoid melee...chuck spears...avoid melee...hide armor...avoid melee... Any other spells?
#23 jenos Dec 10, 2008 22:09:35	Spells? As for spells theres not a lot. Core only spells, right? If so, magic weapon on your AC will prove pretty useful, considering its probably going to be doing as much damage as any other melee member of your party. If you're in a position to use it, entangle is a handy battlefield control spell, obscuring mist to a lesser degree. Produce flame is your nuke. At level 1 SNA lasts a whopping 1 round, not worth it at all. CLW in 1 slot, but a well placed entangle will often prove to be more useful. Considering you have lots of spells, longstrider could be useful to run away better. Depending on your campaign pass without trace could be wonderful. A pass without trace used appropriately could mean a world of difference, but it comes down to if your DM will actually use tracking and the like. Faerie Fire if you know you'll be up against invis foes, but not particularly useful as you need to know where they are. One item I forgot to mention is barding if you get a riding dog AC. A set of barding for your companion could easily make him better than your fighter in every way possible in terms of dealing/taking damage.
#24 ookamikiba Dec 11, 2008 23:39:56	Interesting news. My DM is letting me apply the Woodling template to my Animal Companion. She wants the Druid to focus on plants, because animals are being covered by our rangers. While it doesn't become a plant, it's close enough. Does this change the choice of companion?