Whatever. So hi guys, this thread is about making a nice two weapon fighter killing machine of doom and darkness, and slaughter, etc. Atm we are runing a campaign, where we are randomly gathered from random planes to a metal pocket plane and I am playing an aasimar favoured soul 6/ ecl 7. But because there were too many people eager to play DnD, he split us in two groups. I play with new players so I need a back-up hero
( Our challenge rating is 7 and one of the guys made a critical mistake and we got an owerpowering CL 12 random encounter).Ok, back to the point
We are using the "roll four drop one" d6 stat, not point buy.
We are allowed:
* all races, including those with lvl adj ( +2 max)
* all core books
* planar books
* complete series
* races series (wild, stone, etc)
* monster manual I and II
We are not allowed:
* Tome of Battle
* Tome of Blood
* BoED and BoVD
* Ebberon setting
* northrends setting
I am sure I am forgetting something, but whatever, I can always ask DM if it's allowed.
I was planning something like elf ranger 2/ warrior 2/ swashbuckler 1/ champion of correlan larethian 2 ...
I would definately want to keep the champion of correlan larethian PrC, it looks nice, but I am open to all suggestions.
Thanks in advance.
Tempest gets two-weapon spring attack. Add Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz and it's a pretty sweet combo. I tend to favor the Fighter for a two-weapon build rather than Ranger primarily for the bonus feats. Also, take Oversized two-weapon fighting to give you a one-handed melee weapon for your off-hand.
Now, with that amount of SA dice, you can afford some ambush feats. My favorites are actually the two in Complete Warrior. Between bleeding strikes (-1d6) and cutting their speed in half (-1d6), they don't like you. Take Staggering Strike from Complete Adventurer to force your foe to roll a 20 on a Fort save for every attack you hit with or be limited to a standard OR move action nect turn. Why do I say that? Because the DC is 10+ damage dealt and with all that extra damage, well...
For Rogue special abilities, take Crippling Strike to add 2 Str damage to each SA.
In a full attack, assuming everything hit, you can deal 62d6+(6*weapon damage) damage, 12 Str damage, bleeding dealing 6 points of damage every round, cut their speed in half, and forced 6 massive Fort saves vs. staggering for a round. If the target was biped, add another 2d6 of damage in. It hurts.
Takes 6 feats (TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Staggering Strike, Arterial Stike (for bleeding), and Hamstring (for speed reduction), but Rogues can do it surprisingly easily (may require using a special ability for a bonus feat or two).
Sneak Attack is probably the easiest way to get some decent extra damage, but is not as easy to trigger as Skirmish, so this is a decision you should make early. Sneak Attack is easier to make a full attack with usually, but you wouldn't build a TWF Skirmisher if you didn't have a way around that (Travel Devotion comes to mind, or Dervish). Sudden Strike is an overall subpar option compared with Sneak Attack, but with specific builds and abilities, this might work, too (Greater Blink is hard to counter, for example).
Other ways are Champion of Corellon Larethian (Dex to damage), or Swashbuckler 3 (Int to damage). Nice, but not world-shattering.
All in all, precision-based TWFers need special setups like flat-footed or flanked enemies (situational), or they must move before attacking, and they either suck against crit-immune opponents or invest quite a bit into being able to hurt them. Still, it's a good way to get your DPS up. You'll shine in about half of all combats, strain to get by in a few more, and utterly suck in quite a few others.
A totally different way would be to go the Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting route as mentioned above. This path avoids a little bit of the MAD suffered by precision-based TWFers. You don't need as many attacks to lay on the hurt.
Some details:
1) Get yourself a pair of Bastard Swords and get EWP with the things. Or, be a Dwarf and take Dwarven Waraxes.
2) Get yourself a level of Exotic Weapon Master, get the Uncanny Blow stunt.
3) Get Oversized TWF
You can now Power Attack with both weapons. You can also treat both weapons as being wielded in two hands where the bonus damage from Power Attack is concerned. This is nice. Definitely add in a level of Lion-Totem Barbarian for Pounce as well as Rage, Whirling Frenzy, or Ferocity. You should probably Power Attack for only low amounts of bonus damage (like -2/+4 or -3/+6), because with a lot of attacks, hitting is more important than scoring huge amounts of damage with an attack.
Another thing TWFers should note are modifiers that apply to each attack you make in a round. Things to look out for are flat damage bonuses from spells and other buff effects like Inspire Courage (especially with Dragonfire Inspiration...). You could also try and build around a Clerical or even Paladin base for (Divine Power and) Divine Might, or around an arcane Gish for Arcane Strike. Say it with me: flat damage bonuses are good for TWF!
Shield Dwarf
1. Ranger 1 / Power Attack, Track (B)
2. Ranger 2 / TWF (B)
3. Fighter 1 / Weapon Focus: Dwarven Waraxe, Oversized TWF (B)
4. Barbarian 1 [Lion Totem variant]
5. Barbarian 2
6. Fighter 2 / Travel Devotion, Improved TWF (B)
7. Exotic Weapon Master (take Uncanny Blow stunt)
Reasoning:
Ranger is a good class if you want to have a secondary role except melee destroyer. Skillpoints are tasty, Favored Enemy is another welcome flat damage boost to all attacks. Who needs heavy armor? You want at least Dex 17 for Improved TWF, anyway.
Barbarian 2 is good for Uncanny Dodge (light armor, good Dex...).
Fighter levels are staggered to get the bonus feats at the right time.
Travel Devotion is of integral importance to get you into the thick of melee, in order to commence full attacking! It's also good to circumnavigate obstacles to a straight charge.
You can now do all you need to do in order to be a nice damage-dealing TWFer!
Consider getting Extra Rage and Extend Rage, as well as a level of Horizon Walker (for immunity to fatigue after Rage). Further consider dipping Cleric, choose a god with nice domains to exchange for devotion feats. Fuel devotion feats with turn attempts. Actually, dipping Cloistered Cleric would be ideal for Knowledge Devotion and quite a few skillpoints (invest in knowledge skills...) as a bonus!
If MIC is allowed, getting around crit-immune stuff is easy. Undead and Constructs can be sneak attacked with weapon crystals and ANYTHING can be sneak attacked with Deathstrike Bracers. Even without MIC, a high enough UMD to reliably activate wands of Grave/Golem/Vine Strike provides you with decent coverage (as most crit-immune things are one of those three affected types).
Some comments regarding these:
The bracers are only 3 rounds/day. In other words: hardly enough. Good item in a pinch, but I wouldn't want to rely on it.
Greater Truedeath Crystals are 10,000 gp (not affordable until the middle levels) and only work against Undead. Good in an Undead-heavy campaign, but you'll still spend your money on ability score increasers, Cloaks of Resistance, AC stuff etc. before laying out this kind of money.
Greater Demolition Crystals are 6,000 gp (not really affordable much earlier), and Constructs are rare enough not to warrant the expense per se.
There are no crystals for Oozes, Plants, and Elementals. So you must invest 16,000 gp, which is a lot until well into the mid to high level range. And this allows you to just function normally (not even much better!) vs. roughly half the creatures that would be otherwise immune to your awesome. Also, switching crystals in mid-combat (e.g. when ambushed) costs you two move actions. Not good.
UMDing wands, on the other hand, would be a problem if you have both hands full... and the three X-strike spells only function for a round! Also note that these still exclude Oozes and Elementals, which may not be too common, but they're still out there.
Further note on precision damage: I didn't want to give the impression that it's bad. Actually, it's probably the way to get yourself really high damage output. It's just not very reliable.
A sneak attacker can be shut down in a number of ways, the simplest of which is getting concealment. Every intelligent monster is capable of this to a greater or lesser degree. I advocate using foolproof methods. Like hitting things really hard, that usually does the trick.
Also, concerning Sun Blades: are you being serious? Those things cost 50,000 gp each! That kind of weaponry is not available before high level play. The OP specifically mentioned starting at level 7, so Sun Blades are a long, long way off.
There is a MUCH cheaper version in the Ravenloft book that still has the same basic function (+1 bastard sword that can be used as a short sword).
With 3 additional levels of ranger it's possible to get the entire 2wf-tree without having too high a dex, so focus can be on str... it leaves 6 levels for some classes that gives additional damage bonus (sneak attack fighter from UA, or rogue or scout if the DM doesn't bother with multiclass penalties), throw in craven & staggering strike...
In my experience the key to an effective two-weaponer is to maximize the number of full attacks you get. Belt of Battle comes to mind for extra move actions. Lion Totem Barbarian or Catfolk (LA +1) can get pounce. The Dervish prestige class is always fun, too.
Catfolk don't get pounce.
Catfolk don't get pounce.
But they do have access to the Catfolk Pounce feat which lets them pounce flat-footed targets.
Ranger 2 / Fighter 2 / Lion Totem Barbarian 1 / Revenant Blade 5 / Frenezied Berserker 10
I Find it interesting that all the books that vastly explode magical options are available, but the ones that actually open up Melee to usable options are not. Interesting.
You can build a very good TWF Shield bashing build that will double as a tank with a high AC. With gloves of the balanced hand, you only need to spend one feat on TWF.
==Aelryinth
It's an Eberron PrC, so it's not permitted here. Full dmg to off hand weapon when using their double scimitar.
I Find it interesting that all the books that vastly explode magical options are available, but the ones that actually open up Melee to usable options are not. Interesting.
You can build a very good TWF Shield bashing build that will double as a tank with a high AC. With gloves of the balanced hand, you only need to spend one feat on TWF.
==Aelryinth
Full str damage for offhand weapon is worth 5 levels?
...
It's an Eberron PrC, so it's not permitted here. Full dmg to off hand weapon when using their double scimitar.
I Find it interesting that all the books that vastly explode magical options are available, but the ones that actually open up Melee to usable options are not. Interesting.
You can build a very good TWF Shield bashing build that will double as a tank with a high AC. With gloves of the balanced hand, you only need to spend one feat on TWF.
==Aelryinth
Full str damage for offhand weapon is worth 5 levels?
...
I think it is actually 1.5xStr on both ends of a double bastard sword, or something crazy like that.
The thing is that we had a warrior, who exploited every possible book and was immortal. Sure, his dice rolls helped, but he was unkillable. Imagine 17 CR party fighting with a punishing 23 CR demon with a **** load of dmg reduction, spell resistance and stuff (the mistake was ours, we were to blame, not the DM). He managed to kill it, only I and him survived (hooray for mages). And from which book is this Lion Totem Barbarian, I can't find him anywhere?
No Ravenloft, no MiC.
The thing is that we had a warrior, who exploited every possible book and was immortal. Sure, his dice rolls helped, but he was unkillable. Imagine 17 CR party fighting with a punishing 23 CR demon with a **** load of dmg reduction, spell resistance and stuff (the mistake was ours, we were to blame, not the DM). He managed to kill it, only I and him survived (hooray for mages). And from which book is this Lion Totem Barbarian, I can't find him anywhere?
Lion Totem is in Complete Champion under alternate class features. Really, trading the fast movement for Pounce is kind of a no-brainer. Even without MIC, though, sneak attack TWF is more than viable unless your DM is actively trying to make you useless.
(Note: Savvy Rogue can make the Strength damage from Crippling Strike ability apply even if the target is immune to sneak attacks)
Any suggestions?
Hmm... I can't come up with any build that utilizes SA. Maybe Rogue 3/ Slashbuckler 3 with Daring Outlaw feat (CS). Or Oversized two weapon fighting, Monkey Grip, 2 Greatswords :D
Any suggestions?
No. You are not going to do the Oversized Weapon route. Making all of your attacks at a -6 penalty (-2 for TWF, -2 for Monkey Grip, -2 for wielding the wrong weapon size) is flat-out a bad idea.
Realy, a build utilizing SA could be as simple as Rogue 6 at this level. Swashbuckler w/ Daring Outlaw isn't a bad move. I think it could work very well, especially if you can fit in a Barbarian dip for Pounce (just so you can get in your full attack if your opponent moves). Rogue 16/Swashbuckler3/Lion Totem Barbarian 1 with Daring Outlaw ends up with full sneak attack, Int to damage, and Pounce in addition to the Rogue features. Use Shortswords or something for weapons.
Hmm... I can't come up with any build that utilizes SA. Maybe Rogue 3/ Slashbuckler 3 with Daring Outlaw feat (CS). Or Oversized two weapon fighting, Monkey Grip, 2 Greatswords :D
Any suggestions?
No. You are not going to do the Oversized Weapon route. Making all of your attacks at a -6 penalty (-2 for TWF, -2 for Monkey Grip, -2 for wielding the wrong weapon size) is flat-out a bad idea.
Well... he could be a goliath, or take that magic item compendium pair of gloves that let's you wield oversized weapons (I think at no penalty), or Hammer of Moradin. If you can avoid the big penalties for doing it (and it is possible), it is actually not a bad way to go, as it opens up Power Attacking with your off-hand. Throw in pounce and Shock Trooper, and you can make a decent charger out of it. Going with a single 2-hander is probably still better, but if you can get some "save or suck" effects going off when you hit people, there might be some justification for using two weapons. There are at least a couple of TWF-based feats that do that.
So I did some reading and "research" and noticed this build in the Dervish Handbook (Credit goes to zombiegleemax):
1 Swash - Weapon Finesse, Dodge
2 Swash - grace +1
3 Fighter - Combat Expertise, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (elven courtblade)
4 Fighter - Mounted Combat
5 Swash - insightful strike
6 Fighter - Weapon Focus (elven courtblade)
7 Fighter - Mobility
8 CoCL - Improved Trip, Corellon's blessing
9 CoCL - graceful strike
10 EWM - trip attack
11 Dervish - dervish dance 1/day, slashing blades, movement mastery
12 Dervish - Power Attack, fast movement +5 ft
13 Dervish - Spring Attack, dervish dance 2/day
14 Dervish - dance of death
15 Dervish - Lightning Reflexes, fast movement +10 ft, dervish dance 3/day
16 Dervish - improved reaction
17 Dervish - elaborate parry, dervish dance 4/day
18 Dervish - Prone Attack, fast movement +15 ft
19 Dervish - tireless dance, dervish dance 5/day
20 Dervish - thousand cuts
I don't like the trip part of it and since we have a "chain gun tripper" in our party EXM is out of the list. I want to add 3 lvls of Rogue but can't find the space.
==Aelryinth
Uber Charger builds.
Second would be using Size nonsense, Affinity weapons, and Superior Unarmed Strike. You can get a greatsword dealing 24-144 dmg without much trouble, and 6-36 by level 6 or so.
==Aelryinth