| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1captain_castleJun 26, 2008 9:32:32 | I'm looking to do a Riddick esque character, which I know has been done before, but really only with a bunch of dips, and mostly core classes. I'd like to do it with Swordsage, Bloodclaw Master, etc I want to "optimize" him in that he's gonna be a force to be reckoned with, but I don't want to completely overshadow the rest of the party, or make the game too easy. So far I've got a basic skeleton build up to level 5 consisting of the "Dark" Template (Just really strikes me as Riddick) and using Swordsage to abuse the Dex + Wis +L Armor to AC and Dex to atk/dmg. My stats are: Str 15 Dex 19 (18 base) con 17 Int 16 Wis 18 Cha 13 (I rolled amazingly) Feats: Human (TWF) SS1: Shadow Blade SS3:Weapon Finesse (Whatever I take as ecl 6): Adaptive Style(?) Maneuvers: Wolf Fang Strike Sudden Leap Shadow Blade Technique Wind Stride Claw at the moon Rabid Wolf Strike Shadow Jaunt Soaring Raptor Strike Strength Draining Strike Stances: Blood in Water Child of Shadows Pearl of Black Doubt Items: +1 Mithril Chain, +2 gloves of Dex, 2x MW Daggers, maybe some more defense items? We're starting at level 5, so ideally the build is viable from a low level on, but I'd still like a build for the rest of the way up if possible. All books are legal, but evil isn't allowed, so nothing that means you have to be expressly evil. If it's evil-ish, but not strictly, I can work it in via fancy talking ;) This is meant to be a build based on Riddick, ie: His style,ex con, etc I'm not looking to play exactly riddick if a more viable option than 100% movie accuracy presents itself. |
| #2captain_castleJun 26, 2008 9:34:20 | I haven't sat and done the math for what this comes out as at 5th level as far as attacks, damage, etc but it's fairly easily to extrapolate, and I don't want to put that effort into it this early in the build, since I might change some stuff around. |
| #3darksamuariJun 26, 2008 13:28:41 | What skills do you have in mind for taking with this character? |
| #4captain_castleJun 26, 2008 19:41:05 | What skills do you have in mind for taking with this character? Typical sneaky skills. Move Silent, Hide, Tumble, etc Probably drop a couple ranks into jump and climb cause Riddick was a fairly acrobatic guy. Wish Sleight of Hand and/or Open lock were swordsage class skills, cause I imagine Riddick could probably open locks or pick pockets, but that's purely speculation. Any suggestions beyond that? |
| #5darksamuariJun 26, 2008 21:41:02 | Typical sneaky skills. Jump, Climb, Tumble Escape Artist, Sleight of Hand, Maybe Open Lock & Disable Device Search, Spot, Listen, Survival, Knowledge (Nature/Geography/The Planes) It really depends on how much you want the character to be like him. |
| #6captain_castleJun 26, 2008 22:06:25 | Jump, Climb, Tumble I wanna focus less on the "Outdoorsy" riddick from Chronicles of Riddick (I know there are a lot of points that indicate he probably has a couple ranger levels) and want to focus more on an urban ex con shadow dex fighter. Any comments on classes? Maybe mix rogue with Swordsage? |
| #7darksamuariJun 27, 2008 0:31:15 | I wanna focus less on the "Outdoorsy" riddick from Chronicles of Riddick (I know there are a lot of points that indicate he probably has a couple ranger levels) and want to focus more on an urban ex con shadow dex fighter. Where do you want to specialize in fighting? I ask because we can go urban, underground, ect... I attempted a Riddick build a while back, would you care for me to post it so you can maybe draw any ideas from it? |
| #8captain_castleJun 27, 2008 9:44:34 | Where do you want to specialize in fighting? I ask because we can go urban, underground, ect... Wilderness Rogue / Ranger? I liked it, but I felt it dealt too much with the outdoors. As I said, I realize he is a tracker, and there's the whole "animal thing" from Chronicles, but I wanna play the other side of the coin. this campaign is mostly gonna be urban, dealing with political strife (Almost a microcosm of Star Wars I think lol) and I'm really looking forward to capturing Riddick at the beginning of Chronicles, darting from shadow to shadow, taking fools down. Sorry if I'm being too vague, or not answering your questions well enough, I really appreciate any input. As I said, I really liked your build. |
| #9darksamuariJun 27, 2008 14:37:19 | Wilderness Rogue / Ranger? Haha thanks. Yeah I focused on him being a nature loner dude but I can see where you want to take him. Here are some ideas. If you go Human than you go take rogue at first, take the able learner feat, and go swordsage the rest of the way. This emphasis skills and mobility (I don't think this character can exactly tank like Riddick during the Crematoria battle scene). Some more feats you might want to look at are Dark Stalker, Shadow Striker, and there's a forgotten realms regional feat (1st-level only, woo human!) that allows you to move at your full speed while hiding/moving silently. Have you thought about a race or what specific weapon you may want to use? |
| #10captain_castleJun 28, 2008 13:33:47 | I definitely agree on the rogue thing. Good skills, stealth aspects (Sneak Attack works nicely with a lot of Swordsage abilities) etc I'm going human, and I'm working with my DM to homebrew something for furyan. Odds are it'll just be a simple "Darkvision 60, but light sensitivity" but we'll see. So hopefully I can get out of a LA by accepting the dazzled in bright light thing. I can't decide if I want to use Kukri's or Daggers. I'll have to take a gander at ToB and see which weapons work for which disciple. I know one of the two is in both disciplines. Also, why get able learner? Wouldn't taking Rogue at first level give me access to all rogue skills from there on out? Edit - Do you have aim or msn or something? It seems since it's just me and you, this might be easier over an IM service lol Also, I recognize Shadow Striker from PHB 2 but what book is the other one from? Also, I don't have my hands on PGtF, can you give me the gist of the region one? |
| #11immortalsoulJun 28, 2008 15:41:21 | The problem is that open lock, disable device and sleight of hand aren't part of the swordsage skill list, so taking rogue as your first level would allow you to treat them as class skills until rank four - not further, though, correct me if I'm wrong on that. As you probably plan on advancing them as you gain experience and levels to be useful as a rogue, you'd need able learner. |
| #12tdsaw111Jun 28, 2008 19:15:04 | Keep in mind, normal furyans were not light sensitive. Riddick had surgery done on his eyes while serving in a prison where there was very little light and it was nearly always dark. Light sensitivity and Darkvision would have been granted by the surgery, not race. This is similiar to a graft. |
| #13captain_castleJun 29, 2008 2:37:06 | Keep in mind, normal furyans were not light sensitive. Riddick had surgery done on his eyes while serving in a prison where there was very little light and it was nearly always dark. Light sensitivity and Darkvision would have been granted by the surgery, not race. This is similiar to a graft. No He didn't. It was a furyan racial trait that was activated by that chick in the hallucinations (Play Butcher Bay man, it's freaking fantastic.) Able Learner let's you access cross class skills as class skills, right? So why take levels of rogue? Why not just take Able Learner and delay another feat for a couple levels? More importantly, why not take fighter, burn the first level feat on able learner, and make up for it by using the fighter feat on a useful feat? Unless we're talking a rogue/swordsage multi class situation, which I'm fine with, I just don't understand the one level dip. Though, in retrospect, I only need two levels of swordsage to get the AC bonus and by then I'll easily qualify for shadow blade (Which are really the only two things I wanted from it) would it be better to use that as just my first two levels and then start going rogue? At least until level 6 or whatever, then I can take bloodclaw master? Or even Swordsage 2/Fighter 2 (for feats mostly and decent BAB and HD)/Rogue 2/Bloodclaw Master 2? |
| #14nebelmondJun 29, 2008 3:42:26 | Skills Class a gives you a skill as class skill, you can raise it by one for one point up to a maximum of lvl +3. You take class b at the next level, which doesn't have that skill as a class skill. Maximum for the skill is still lvl +3 but raising it costs 2 skill points for one rank. Skills you got from neither class cost 2 points for one rank and have a maximum rank of (lvl +3) / 2. Able Learner allows you, to treat any skill as class skill that any of your classes has as class skill. So the skill from class a would be a class skill in class b now, too. The skill that was crossclass for both classes, still is crossclass. Some classes (Factotum for example) have all skills as class skills. You can't take Able Learner as a fighter bonus feat. |
| #15darksamuariJun 29, 2008 15:49:21 | No Concerning the whole Able Learner thing let me try to break it down. You take Rogue as your first level for the skills and select able learner as your first level feat (if you are human). You do this so when you multi-class into something else you can still put ranks into those rogue skills. So this allows your melee/stalker beast to have superior skills than normal (hide, move silently, ect...) Alright second thing, I would try to advise you against taking fighter levels. You'll hate to hear it but Ranger (or even Barbarian) will work out more if you want to be a stalker. |
| #16captain_castleJun 29, 2008 19:13:57 | Oh I get it now. The way I read Able Learner was all skills were treated as class skills, for some reason. Ok, that makes sense. So like Rogue 1/Barb 1/Swordsage 2? Gives me a little bit of sneak attack, I'm pretty sure I can do the variants for pounce and whirling frenzy, and then I can get shadow blade, and I get the Wis to ac bonus from swordsage. Also, I was thinking last night, would it be viable at 5th level (by viable, I mean would I get ganked constantly) to go drow, instead of dark human? I could take the fighter variant to get shadow blade essentially for free, take the feat that allows me to see in darkness spells, not really have to worry about hide in plain sight, and then just crank up my SA (because honestly I can just drop a darkness spell when combat starts and sneak attack to my hearts content, cause there are what, 2 monsters that can see in darknes at 5th level? Even including monsters of a few higher cr?) The only problem is, I'm probably looking at like Drow Fighter 1 (variant - Dex to dam vs flat foot) TWF, (The name of the feat that lets you see through darkness escapes me, but I'd take it as my level 1 generic feat) Rogue 1 Rogue 2 Weapon Finesse (Kukri) I have good stats, so my ac/hp/skills won't suck too badly compared to the rest of the party, but that's still two levels I'm losing. Is it worth it at this low of level? (I'll pitch the LA buy off idea to my DM tomorrow when I see him) |
| #17tdsaw111Jun 29, 2008 19:19:05 | So you want to take a video game over the original source material of the movie? Riddick stated in the movie how he got his funky vision. The game may have changed things for its own purpose, but by the actually source material, the movie, he got the vision through surgery. You can use either way, but I tend to take the source over a third party story. Jack: How the hell can I get eyes like that? Riddick: First, you've got to kill a few people. Jack: Ok. I can do it! Riddick: And then you get sent to a slam where they tell you you'll never see daylight again. So you dig up a doctor, pay him twenty menthol Kools to do a surgical shine job on your eyes… Jack: So you can see who's sneaking up on you in the dark! Riddick: Exactly! Caroline: [to Jack] Go! [Jack leaves.] Riddick: Cute kid. So, if it were a racial trait he would have had it long before he hit the prison. You know, like from birth. |
| #18captain_castleJun 29, 2008 19:26:17 | So you want to take a video game over the original source material of the movie? Riddick stated in the movie how he got his funky vision. The game may have changed things for its own purpose, but by the actually source material, the movie, he got the vision through surgery. Are. . . Are you serious? The game was produced by Vin Diesel's company, to follow the character he largely created, and the game fell in perfectly into the storyline Chronicles set up for the character. Riddick didn't know he hadn't been operated on. He had a hallucination of the chick awakening his darkvision while the doctor was patching him up from the ghoul things attack, so when the hallucination ended, he woke up, and I'm pretty sure he still thought the doctor had done it. It wasn't again until Chronicles he had another hallucination, and probably wasn't until Jack told him she didn't find anyone who could do it that he started to put it together. So yeah, I'm gonna go with the game's interpretation, since it seems more accurate, and Chronicles sort of confirms it as well. |
| #19tdsaw111Jun 29, 2008 19:53:06 | Ok, so it was surgery, and psionic surgery. Either way, it is less of a racial trait and more of what would be a graft in DnD. Also, you can check with any listing of credits, no where does Vin appear as a writer/co-creater anywhere in the credits. Characters, screenplay, and story are all credited to Jim and Ken Wheat, and screenplay credit aslo for the director of the 2 films David Twohy. Diesel did help choregraph a few fight scenes in Chronicles, however the character of Riddick was not his, and was done long before he was even cast. Even the writing for the game was done by others, notably, not the original writing team either. Hence discrepancies. It really is not worth argueing about though. |
| #20tdsaw111Jun 29, 2008 20:08:12 | In the flash movie on the Pitchblack.com website, Riddick gets the eyeshine to avoid disadvantage following an encounter with humanoids called "shiners" (who refer to Riddick as darkeye) who already have the same operation to see in the dark bowels of the Ursa Luna prison where the guards do not tend to go. The eyeshine surgical procedure is performed by a bovine veterinarian onboard a prison facility at which Riddick arrived only a few hours before and which he is already in the process of escaping. Riddick elects to have no anaesthetic despite the procedure involving cutting the cornea and drilling through the eye to inject a reflective substance behind the retina. The cost quoted to Riddick is 1000 creds. Having no cash, Riddick offers downpayment of a pack of Kool cigarettes which he earlier took from a guard. He also takes welders goggles from the facility. Riddick escapes the facility, including time for the operation, in, "exactly 11 hours 22 minutes." The movie closes with Johns being given the job to hunt Riddick and take him straight to Hubble Bay. As the movie is called a classified "re-enactment of events" of Riddick's escape from the Ursa Luna Slamcity Facility (indicating this is an official record with a medical procedure known to the prison authorities and not a story told by Riddick) and as the credits to the flash movie list David Twohy (director and co-writer of Pitch Black) as the writer it is likely that this version was intended to be canonical. Also found this. So it seems everything surrounding the movie, says surgery, and all references to the psychic part were added after the game changed Riddick's backstory from what the original writers and directors had done, then even when the sequel came the scenes referencing the events of the video game were cut. Looks more like they were filling holes caused by the other writing team. Just some things to think about. The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay is a video game developed by the Swedish developers Starbreeze Studios. Didnt realize Vin owned a swedish gaming company. |
| #21captain_castleJun 29, 2008 20:19:05 | Ok, so it was surgery, and psionic surgery. Either way, it is less of a racial trait and more of what would be a graft in DnD. I was under the impression the character was based on a drow he'd been playing for some time, that could be where I was mistaken. In the flash movie on the Pitchblack.com website, Riddick gets the eyeshine to avoid disadvantage following an encounter with humanoids called "shiners" (who refer to Riddick as darkeye) who already have the same operation to see in the dark bowels of the Ursa Luna prison where the guards do not tend to go. The eyeshine surgical procedure is performed by a bovine veterinarian onboard a prison facility at which Riddick arrived only a few hours before and which he is already in the process of escaping. Riddick elects to have no anaesthetic despite the procedure involving cutting the cornea and drilling through the eye to inject a reflective substance behind the retina. The cost quoted to Riddick is 1000 creds. Having no cash, Riddick offers downpayment of a pack of Kool cigarettes which he earlier took from a guard. He also takes welders goggles from the facility. Riddick escapes the facility, including time for the operation, in, "exactly 11 hours 22 minutes." The movie closes with Johns being given the job to hunt Riddick and take him straight to Hubble Bay. As the movie is called a classified "re-enactment of events" of Riddick's escape from the Ursa Luna Slamcity Facility (indicating this is an official record with a medical procedure known to the prison authorities and not a story told by Riddick) and as the credits to the flash movie list David Twohy (director and co-writer of Pitch Black) as the writer it is likely that this version was intended to be canonical. That very may well be, but as the game was released and the sequel was as well, it was obviously retconned to be racial. I can definitely understand what you're saying, but as a longtime comics fan, I understand how retcons work and while not always what we want to see happen, after all is said and done, I'm basing this riddick more on the sequel one anyway, so unfortunately we kinda have to go with his updated (apparently retconned) history, as provided by the game and sequel. Also found this. So it seems everything surrounding the movie, says surgery, and all references to the psychic part were added after the game changed Riddick's backstory from what the original writers and directors had done, then even when the sequel came the scenes referencing the events of the video game were cut. I do think the furyan racial stuff was directors cut, but I just can't ignore the game and directors cut as part of his back story. That sucks they kinda went directly against Pitch Black's writers, but that's how it goes, isn't it? The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay is a video game developed by the Swedish developers Starbreeze Studios. Didnt realize Vin owned a swedish gaming company. I meant to say produced. Tigon studios is Vin Diesels company. So this is just another one of those, do we follow what the guys who wrote pitch black say (I honest to god do prefer that way, cause I never really liked this whole furyan crap, with the little AoE he pulls at the end of the movie, and much prefer Pitch Black as a movie) or the overall way the character goes as his history is more filled out. It's totally a preference thing. And since the odds of me being able to afford a graft capable of doing this at 5th level is slim, might as well have it be racial. |
| #22tdsaw111Jun 29, 2008 20:28:27 | I too am a long time comic fan. That has nothing to do with it. And given that all of the retconning was cut from the actual theatrical release of the movie, I would call that more official, as they decided that it was not appropriate to the character and cut it. The Drow thing as I recall was actually from a tattoo he had on his stomach in xXx. He had some odd name on his stomach, and since the art guys only had an idea he should have a tat there he asked to have the characters name. Only 1/3 of the product, given theatrical releases uses the retcon I would say it is not really official. But thats me. I totally understand how retcons work, however in this case it is a retcon that was then dropped form the actual version of the sequal, then put into the directors cut, after him and the writers, the originals by the way, had decided it was not good enough to be part of the theatrical release. To me that is retconning it out. But I have no problem agreeing to disagree. |
| #23captain_castleJun 29, 2008 20:37:31 | I too am a long time comic fan. That has nothing to do with it. And given that all of the retconning was cut from the actual theatrical release of the movie, I would call that more official, as they decided that it was not appropriate to the character and cut it. Touche. I'd forgotten that there wasn't any evidence of the furyan hallucinations in the actual theatrical. The Drow thing as I recall was actually from a tattoo he had on his stomach in xXx. He had some odd name on his stomach, and since the art guys only had an idea he should have a tat there he asked to have the characters name. I just read in a thread on this forum somewhere that riddick was based on a Drow witch hunter Diesel had played. I have no literal knowledge other than that lol Apparently according to wikipedia he has the name of that character tattooed on his back Only 1/3 of the product, given theatrical releases uses the retcon I would say it is not really official. But thats me. I totally understand how retcons work, however in this case it is a retcon that was then dropped form the actual version of the sequal, then put into the directors cut, after him and the writers, the originals by the way, had decided it was not good enough to be part of the theatrical release. To me that is retconning it out. No, I definitely understand. Honestly, you've pretty much sold me on the point. Like I said, I didn't like the directions they took the series with Chronicles of Riddick anyway, I just didn't see any reason to ignore the changes they made, but you do have a pretty good point, seeing as how only in the game does he really have flashbacks. So I can see it going either way, and while I'll acknowledge that's the way the director of the sequel wanted it to go, I think I'll stick with the "He's less supernatural, and more just a really cool badass who got surgery" as I prefer it. However, for my character, I'm gonna stick with it as a racial thing I think, unless there's some surgery that is kinda cheap that grants darkvision. |
| #24tdsaw111Jun 29, 2008 20:55:52 | I may be mistaken about placement, but I recall the tattoo story, and it being on Conan O'Brien and about xXx. But rest assured, Vin did not have anything to do with creating Riddick. As for a surgery, check Lords of Madness, pg 216, Darksight Eyes. It is expensive to have done, but, then again, Riddick never actually paid for his, just gave a down payment. Also, by the time Riddick has his funky vision he was probably mid level and could have afforded the graft anyway. The way I see riddick is that he is 10-15th level when he his in Pitch Black. He is 20th by the time he finished the Chronicles. Given what we see him do I think that is fair. I mean, he takes out a demi-god for crying out loud. |
| #25darksamuariJun 29, 2008 20:57:25 | The Drow thing as I recall was actually from a tattoo he had on his stomach in xXx. He had some odd name on his stomach, and since the art guys only had an idea he should have a tat there he asked to have the characters name. Actually on Conan O'Brien he mentioned that the tatoo was paying tribute to an Orcish character he played. Riddick was infact based off an old character of his, a Drow Witchhunter. Oh yeah fun fact, near the end of Chronicles of Riddick when Riddick disguises to infiltrate the hall of the Necromongers he wears heavy armor. When he attacks the two guards at the same time and leaps upon the Lord Marshall, he is wearing light armor. You know why? Because Vin Diesel was following the rules for two-weapon fighting within the ranger class. However, for my character, I'm gonna stick with it as a racial thing I think, unless there's some surgery that is kinda cheap that grants darkvision. I have to agree with the Captain here. Unless you can realistically and reasonably convince a DM to allow you the graft, you should attempt something racial. http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Light_Sensitivity,all |
| #26darksamuariJun 29, 2008 21:00:24 | Also, by the time Riddick has his funky vision he was probably mid level and could have afforded the graft anyway. The way I see riddick is that he is 10-15th level when he his in Pitch Black. He is 20th by the time he finished the Chronicles. Given what we see him do I think that is fair. I mean, he takes out a demi-god for crying out loud. Woah there chief... 20th Level in CoR? Really? Because the Lord Marshall, the guy leading an army decimating worlds and converting civilizations to his slaves, that guy is 20th level. Riddick is around 12th-15th level and landed a really lucky blow. You watched the fight, you really think if left to just the two of them, Riddick could have ever won? |
| #27tdsaw111Jun 29, 2008 21:41:56 | The Lord Marshall was practically a demi-god. And Riddick did manage to defeat him, meaning in DnD terms he would be somewhere near the appropriate CR. Also I said AT THE END. After the last fight. He leveled. And a single level 20 character should not be soloing a CR20. That would be for a party of 4 level 18-20s. CR is not based on a single character but on a standard party. So, for Riddick to be 18-19 at the start of the fight is not unlikely. As for the drow thing, I have never heard anything of the sort related to Riddick. And I have shown for a fact, that he had nothing to do with the creation of the character. That belongs to Jim and Ken Wheat. They are officially created as the creators and writers. Vin was cast for a part. I suppose Christian Bale created Batman based on a character he played in a rpg once? Granted once Vin got the role he ran with it and made it HIS role, but the character was already there. It really is not hard to explain getting the graft. Instead of prison you were a slave to an illithid. It specifically mentions in the description of the graft that they are often given to favored servants that otherwise can not see in the dark. And in typical Riddick fashion, as soon as the graft was done he killed his owner and revolted. |
| #28darksamuariJun 29, 2008 22:06:30 | The Lord Marshall was practically a demi-god. And Riddick did manage to defeat him, meaning in DnD terms he would be somewhere near the appropriate CR. Also I said AT THE END. After the last fight. He leveled. And a single level 20 character should not be soloing a CR20. That would be for a party of 4 level 18-20s. CR is not based on a single character but on a standard party. So, for Riddick to be 18-19 at the start of the fight is not unlikely. Were we watching the same film? Because for most of the fight Riddick is "took to town." Then the Lord Marshall is sneak attacked, than panicked and finally sneak attacked which confirms as a critical hit. Man, seems like Riddick had some help... But that's just me. As for the "demi-god" thing, I think we are just arguing over power levels here. I believe a 20th character can fill in here (I hate to go epic with characters unless they are Superman, Darkseid, ect..) As for the drow thing, I have never heard anything of the sort related to Riddick. And I have shown for a fact, that he had nothing to do with the creation of the character. That belongs to Jim and Ken Wheat. They are officially created as the creators and writers. Vin was cast for a part. I suppose Christian Bale created Batman based on a character he played in a rpg once? Granted once Vin got the role he ran with it and made it HIS role, but the character was already there. You know initially Indiana Jones was just James Bond but as an archaeologist right? I mean that's what he was born out of, at this point he's an idea. Harrison Ford transformed him into his character. So I don't care if two guys wrote the character, the moment it landed in Vin Diesel's lap it was his. He breathed life into that character. |
| #29tdsaw111Jun 30, 2008 16:21:44 | Vin may be the physical embodiement of Riddick, however he is still limited to what the writers create. As for the Lord Marshal being sneak attacked or critted, he was the Necromongers were not mortal, closest thing in DnD is the Necropolitan template, meaning he is immune to both. And even a 20th level character would not be a CR appropriate challenge for a single character of 12-15th level. And if a warlord that oversees an entire conquering race is not an epic character than I dont know what should be. Essentially Darkseid is not much different than the Lord Marshall. Both are incredibly powerful, tyrannical leaders of a world. Both are the very meaning of scary in their representative stories. And honestly, Superman is beyond Epic. Please, by all means show me one place where Vin is created as even having creative input on Riddick prior to the videogame, or sequel. The movie had been written, meaning everything about Riddick had been written, long before Vin was cast. May he have drawn on his old favorite character for inspiration? Sure. But that is not the same. |
| #30darksamuariJun 30, 2008 17:13:50 | As for the Lord Marshal being sneak attacked or critted, he was the Necromongers were not mortal, closest thing in DnD is the Necropolitan template, meaning he is immune to both. And even a 20th level character would not be a CR appropriate challenge for a single character of 12-15th level. And if a warlord that oversees an entire conquering race is not an epic character than I dont know what should be. Essentially Darkseid is not much different than the Lord Marshall. Both are incredibly powerful, tyrannical leaders of a world. Both are the very meaning of scary in their representative stories. And honestly, Superman is beyond Epic. You know just because some people call themselves "Necromongers" and say there leader was a "Holy Half-Dead" doesn't mean they are translated to being undead. When the Lord Marshal is stabbed from behind it looked like it hurt him a bit, kind of like what a sneak attack might do.... And the whole Epic thing. A basic Necromonger warrior can be put at maybe 2-3 level. Higher ups are a safe 6-7 level. This puts it that Riddick (a guy who had difficulty fighting one of the monsters from Pitch Black) could take them out easily at 12th-15th level. And the end fight, well thats just what happens when a rogue goes off against a spellcaster... |
| #31captain_castleJun 30, 2008 22:14:27 | Lol I love reading your responses guys, but doesn't really help the build lol |
| #32tdsaw111Jun 30, 2008 22:23:51 | Riddick actually didn't have a whole lot o trouble fighting the monsters in pitch black, it was mainly when he was outnumbered, that he really struggled. And I guess if you really want to pick and choose what you want to accept as fact from those presented in the movie to only take those that bolster your position and hand wave the rest, thats fine. They undergo a ritual to become undead, like a necropolitan. There is nothing to suggest they are anything but what they claim to be. You can cherry pick the bits you want. Thats fine. Ok, obviously we are not getting anywhere, and at this point are only derailing the thread. I therefore am done posting about this issue. As for a build, I would not even bother with Ranger. It may fit thematically sorta but it kinda sucks. I could more see Barbarian w/ Whirling Frenzy. Rogue, splashed with fighter, not sure how good it actually is but Invisible Blade may work. Another approach, which would be a bit unorthodox might be to try something gish based. Use mostly self buff spells, invis etc. It would be unorthodox, but it would let you have an easy way to do his little furyan supernova. Honestly, I would suggest maybe Swordsage. The various manuevers work well. Splash with PrCs as you like, maybe a couple levels of Fighter or Psychic Warrior for feats. |
| #33captain_castleJul 01, 2008 0:23:41 | any suggestions on race? underfolk for darkvision, but lose a feat, Dark template, for +1 LA, and still get human bonuses, or drow, and get that darkness seeing feat? |
| #34darksamuariJul 01, 2008 0:41:04 | any suggestions on race? Underfolk with the light sensitivity flaw gives you back that lost feat. I've always preferred Underfolk for Riddick. |
| #35captain_castleJul 01, 2008 0:41:53 | Underfolk with the light sensitivity flaw gives you back that lost feat. I've always preferred Underfolk for Riddick. underfolk have light sensitivity |
| #36darksamuariJul 01, 2008 0:53:03 | underfolk have light sensitivity Hmm... well if you are still looking for feats there are plenty of flaws that you could feel your character may have. Just saying, it's an option. So, weapon choice? I think this is going to be a matter of preference for you between either daggers or kukris. I can't see any other weapons (I'm not including exotic in here) fitting the bill. |
| #37captain_castleJul 01, 2008 1:23:44 | Hmm... well if you are still looking for feats there are plenty of flaws that you could feel your character may have. Just saying, it's an option. flaws are out of the question, I'm pretty sure. and really the only way to get Shadow Blade, TWF, and WF starting is human with the dark template. then I figure Swordsage 4. That way I get dex to attack, damage, wis to AC, and with my good stats that makes me pretty decent as a 4th level PC. I think I have to use daggers to get bloodclaw master to work, so that sucks but oh well. I'd prefer kukris. |
| #38captain_castleJul 07, 2008 8:34:01 | Ok I finally settled on: Human Rogue1/Fighter1/Swordsage1/Barb(Lion Totem Variant)1/Swordsage +1 Rogue to represent my character being a sneaky thief guy, who gets drafted into the empire (Fighter) and finds out he is actually a natural born killer (Swordsage abusing shadow hand style) who decides he's tired of being ordered around and takes to living in the wild (Barbarian) and finds his inner animal (Lion Totem) yet maintains his style (Whirling frenzy lol). When he comes back to civilization (our campaign will be mostly city based I guess. This is also him coming back to helion prime after Hoth) he embraces a different technique of his old fighting style (probably take mostly tiger claw maneuvers) for great effect. Stats are: Str 15 Dex 18 (Lvl 4 increase) Con 18 Int 16 Wis 18 Cha 13 So we're looking at a bab of 3, saves are 8/9/7 F/R/W respectively. Feats: Human (Able Learner) Lvl 1: TWF Ftr 1: Wpn Finesse Lvl 3: Shadow Hand Because of able learner, I'm gonna pump all skill ranks I can into the sneaky/athletic ones (Hide, MS, Spot, Listen, Jump, Tumble, Climb) and try and get a decent amount into utility (UMD, Open Lock, Search) I'm thinking I'll TWF with Daggers, so I can eventually go into Bloodclaw Master (Probably take another level of swordsage before then) so since I'll probably only be able to afford masterwork daggers for now (and since I'll want to grab some mithril chain +1, and probably gloves of Dex) While in a whirling frenzy and while charging into flanking (Island of Blades), I'll get two main hand attacks, and one off hand at a total of: +8/+8/+8 at a damage of 1d4+1d6+8 main hand 1d4+1d6+6 off hand At an avg of 18 damage if all 3 hit, which really isn't bad for a secondary attacker. Of course I haven't added in the potential for items (gloves of dex, maybe make main hand dagger +1) or good old strikes (some of the tiger claws get some cool bonuses to damage) My ac is looking at something like 10 + dex 4 + Wis 4 + Armor + 5 = 23 That's also without factoring in possible gloves of dex, rings or amulets of armor bonus giving stuff, etc So critique me guys, how did I do? What should I change? |