A few questions

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

ElVizard

Jan 03, 2012 23:33:42
Hi, I'm about to start a new campaign as a player and another as a DM. So I'm looking a lot for different character options (some NPC and some PC). And I have the following questions (all but 5 and 6 using only the books listed above, this two may come from any english source but 3e and dragon magazines):

1) Is there any way to get Antimagic Field by an item or a PrC (that a fighter can enter easily) that provides you with an AMF activated at will/no determined duration/permanent? I'm asking this cause I'm trying to get a fighter able to challenge a Cleric or Druid (both with DMM), a magic-rogue (meaning: arcane trickster or something like that) or a wizard. I've read about the chain-fighter but he still has a clear weakness: swift spells. For example, he can trip an opponent, but still he can use Stand (PH2. p 125) and tumble away, then cast a "die, die, die" spell on him; he can swift-"dimensional door" far from fighters reach; or simply swift-"die, die, die" on him. Also I've been thinking of using a "graple-fighter", but is likely the same issue, I need an AMF.

2) Is there any creature that is Evil Outsider with low ECL. I'm trying to do a Fiend of Possesion at low levels, and the most problematic point of it's requierments is that it needs to be "evil outsider". Incredibly the Fiendish Creature template doesn't make you outsider or even evil.

3) Any recommendation of spells to make them spell-likes abilities with spellstitched? I'm looking for any spell that usually has a material/XP component so I can use it daily without paying it's MC. Also anyone know if there's an update or something that says how much LA does it have? or anywere that specifies that this kind of templates were you have to pay and make some sacrifices can be played by players by only meeting it's prerrequisites.

4) Any way to reduce the casting time of artificer's infusions without using action points? Some infusions are very good, specially the ones that work on weapons. But they have horrible casting time to use them in battle and a short duration to use them outside without knowing you are about to get into a battle.

5) Any book that speak about making you own posion with custom DC? and any source that says about taking your own posion doesn't cost for making it? That is, I want to polymorph/shapechange into a creature with posion (and probably high it's Constitution, for the DC) , and fill some recipients with it's posion. I found in DMG and CAd that you can make your own posion at 1/6 of it's market price if you have "access" to the raw materials. But by "access" it can be understood: "access to a provider that gives you the raw materials easily" or "you have access to the raw poison". By the wording, if you have the raw posion, you can create it for free (maybe you still need the time to make it). By the second one, you still have to pay the costs for making it, which can be avoided (maybe, if your DM thinks that way) if you use Fabricate. I didn't find anywhere that if I create my own posion, the final product has the same DC and damage as the raw materials. Also it doesn't specifies in the MM how a posion damage augment when the creature gets bigger.

6) Also about posions: Any book that specifies how do the drows create their posions? I believe they don't have posion in their bodies, but still, there's nothing that says how they create them. I'm asking this because I've read about a way of making posions by using minor/mayor creation. And if use minor creation it has to be vegetal material

[Added] 7) This one is refered to monsters with class HD. If I have for example, an antropomorphic viper with 4 levels of rogue, does the 4 rogue HD count for the purpose of calculating the AV's venom? Any source that explains this?

[Added] 8) If you shapechange/polymorph into a creature with a special attack (to continue with the previous, let's say a poison), the rules says that you keep your own HD. Now, you use your HD to calculate the DC for the special attacks of the creature or the HD of the creature you are turned into? For example, I'm a level 8 wizard, I polymorph into an fleshrieker (MM3), the DC for it's poison should be 14 (10+2 for it's 4 racial HD+2 for it's CON) or should be 16 (10+4 for my 8 wizard's HD+2 for my new CON)? Any source that explains this?


[Added] 9) I've been reading MoI (even if I can't use it, I really liked it), and there are some things that I don't understand:
a) If I select the feat Shape Soulmeld, and I don't have an incarnum class, can I select ANY soulmeld to shape? Even when I have no open chakras?
b) By RAW, if I use a feat/spell that temporary fills an essencia receptacle on an incarnum feat, it's only filled while the feat/spell is in effect?. For example, if I use Psycarnum infusion to fill my Midnight metamagic, it will give me the benefit until the start of my next turn. Am I wrong? Did I misread something?

Allowed books

-Arms and Equipment Guide


-Book of Exalted Deads


-Book of Vile Darkness (3.0)


-Complete arcane


-Complete Divine


-Comple Adventurer


-Complete Warrior


-Dungeon Master’s Guide


-Dungeon Master’s Guide 2


-Draconomicon (not sure if it’s 3.0 or 3.5)


-Eberron Campaign Setting


-Epic Level Handbook (3.0)


-Fiend Folio (3.0)


-Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting


-Libris mortis


-Magic Item Compendium


-Magic of Faerun


-Monster Manual 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5


-Spell Compendium


-Player’s Guide to Faerun


-Player’s Handbook


-Player’s Handbook 2


-Savage Species (3.0, sometimes we use it)


-Serpent Kingdoms (no sharruk xD)


-Tome of Battle: Book of the Nine Swords


-Unaproachable East


-Unearthed arcane


-Weapons of Legacy

#2

Tempest_Stormwind

Jan 04, 2012 0:49:13
1) Is there any way to get Antimagic Field by an item or a PrC (that a fighter can enter easily) that provides you with an AMF activated at will/no determined duration/permanent? I'm asking this cause I'm trying to get a fighter able to challenge a Cleric or Druid (both with DMM), a magic-rogue (meaning: arcane trickster or something like that) or a wizard. I've read about the chain-fighter but he still has a clear weakness: swift spells. For example, he can trip an opponent, but still he can use Stand (PH2. p 125) and tumble away, then cast a "die, die, die" spell on him; he can swift-"dimensional door" far from fighters reach; or simply swift-"die, die, die" on him. Also I've been thinking of using a "graple-fighter", but is likely the same issue, I need an AMF.


AMF items are pretty commonplace - but to my knowledge they only exist by extrapolating item creation rules rather than relying on a print source. Still, they're basically required* if a pure fighter-type wants to have protection against pure casters at the higher levels.

To bypass the "stand/tumble" route, use the Devoted Spirit stance Thicket of Blades (Tome of Battle) with a reach weapon, and pick up Mage Slayer (Complete Arcane). Swift-action spells still don't provoke AoOs this way, though, so the low-level swift teleports can foil this. (Likewise, plain ol' Dimension Door foils grappling. Note the lack of a somatic component?)

What level is this challenge? If it's really high, you may as well hand in the bucket right now. 

*Note that the cleric can probably bypass this since PGtF is allowed. Look up Initiate of Mystra. Yeah, for some reason Fighters Don't Get Nice Things but they print ████ like that.

Note 2: How in blazes is the druid getting DMM on his druid spells?

2)
Is there any creature that is Evil Outsider with low ECL. I'm trying to do a Fiend of Possesion at low levels, and the most problematic point of it's requierments is that it needs to be "evil outsider". Incredibly the Fiendish Creature template doesn't make you outsider or even evil.

There's quite a few. Here's a list by HD.

3)
Any recommendation of spells to make them spell-likes abilities with spellstitched? I'm looking for any spell that usually has a material/XP component so I can use it daily without paying it's MC. Also anyone know if there's an update or something that says how much LA does it have? or anywere that specifies that this kind of templates were you have to pay and make some sacrifices can be played by players by only meeting it's prerrequisites.

Spellstitched doesn't have an LA; it costs gold and time to acquire. There are some other similar templates (Necropolitan comes to mind).

As for good spells, I don't know that many offhand, but I suspect you can find several if you google around. Here's a few examples. (Note that I second calling your attention to Animate Dead Warrior (UE), but I don't necessarily agree it's worth it on a spellstitched character unless you're spellstitching yourself. Dear god is that spell meaty, along with the SC Deathbound-unique spells, if you're aiming for necromancy.)

4)
Any way to reduce the casting time of artificer's infusions without using action points? Some infusions are very good, specially the ones that work on weapons. But they have horrible casting time to use them in battle and a short duration to use them outside without knowing you are about to get into a battle.

Rapid Infusion feat, but that's 1/day. Pick up the Heroic Spirit feat if you can fit it in (it's a good choice for arties anyway).

I don't see Races of Eberron on that list, so the usual trick (Persistent Unfettered Heroism + Wand Surge = unlimited anything) doesn't seem to be available.

5)
Any book that speak about making you own posion with custom DC? and any source that says about taking your own posion doesn't cost for making it? That is, I want to polymorph/shapechange into a creature with posion (and probably high it's Constitution, for the DC) , and fill some recipients with it's posion. I found in DMG and CAd that you can make your own posion at 1/6 of it's market price if you have "access" to the raw materials. But by "access" it can be understood: "access to a provider that gives you the raw materials easily" or "you have access to the raw poison". By the wording, if you have the raw posion, you can create it for free (maybe you still need the time to make it). By the second one, you still have to pay the costs for making it, which can be avoided (maybe, if your DM thinks that way) if you use Fabricate. I didn't find anywhere that if I create my own posion, the final product has the same DC and damage as the raw materials. Also it doesn't specifies in the MM how a posion damage augment when the creature gets bigger.

Dungeonscape, I think, is the sourcebook on this. Here's the poisoner's handbook.

6)
Also about posions: Any book that specifies how do the drows create their posions? I believe they don't have posion in their bodies, but still, there's nothing that says how they create them. I'm asking this because I've read about a way of making posions by using minor/mayor creation. And if use minor creation it has to be vegetal material 

It's never been specified in a source I've read, but I also haven't read Drow of the Underdark.

Although if you're using Minor Creation, please use the psionic version - it's level 1 instead of level 4 (at the expense of being shaper-exclusive). 
#3

Maat_Mons

Jan 04, 2012 1:50:01

Antimagic shackles (Book of Exalted Deeds) and magebane shackles (Arms and Equipment Guide) both produce continuous antimagic fields, but are problematic to use in battle.

#4

Slagger_the_Chuul

Jan 04, 2012 3:31:38
Antimagic shackles (Book of Exalted Deeds) and magebane shackles (Arms and Equipment Guide) both produce continuous antimagic fields, but are problematic to use in battle.

They work when fastened or locked onto the creature, but I don't think there's anything stopping them from working when you just fasten or lock them onto one arm or leg.
#5

ElVizard

Jan 04, 2012 12:56:30
AMF items are pretty commonplace - but to my knowledge they only exist by extrapolating item creation rules rather than relying on a print source. Still, they're basically required* if a pure fighter-type wants to have protection against pure casters at the higher levels.


 Yea, I forget to say that I was looking for "non-custom" items. I know it's possible, and I've calculated  and it would cost 198 k gold. But I was looking for items that already exist.

 To bypass the "stand/tumble" route, use the Devoted Spirit stance Thicket of Blades (Tome of Battle) with a reach weapon, and pick up Mage Slayer (Complete Arcane). Swift-action spells still don't provoke AoOs this way, though, so the low-level swift teleports can foil this. (Likewise, plain ol' Dimension Door foils grappling. Note the lack of a somatic component?)


I didn't considered  Thicket of Blades because it doesn't explicitly says that tumble provokes AoO. It talks about 5'-steps and withraw. Still, it could work. And Dimension door can still work if he has it sudden still-ed. This si why I was looking for an AMF way.

 What level is this challenge? If it's really high, you may as well hand in the bucket right now.


about 10-20, sry, I totally forget that

 *Note that the cleric can probably bypass this since PGtF is allowed. Look up Initiate of Mystra. Yeah, for some reason Fighters Don't Get Nice Things but they print ████ like that.


You're right about the initiate, but luckly they don't know about he's existence xD. One of the players usually make High CL cleric, about +14... so he would pass it like blinking.

 Note 2: How in blazes is the druid getting DMM on his druid spells?


One level of cleric, apostole of peace, or another class that grant Turn Undead, or there's even an item that ables you to use TU. And beacause DMM doesn't specifically says that can only be used on cleric spells but says that can be used on divine spells, tecnically, he can.

There's quite a few. Here's a list by HD.


The only one that I could find is the Dretch at 2 HD 2 LA.

 Spellstitched doesn't have an LA; it costs gold and time to acquire. There are some other similar templates (Necropolitan comes to mind).

As for good spells, I don't know that many offhand, but I suspect you can find several if you google around. Here's a few examples. (Note that I second calling your attention to Animate Dead Warrior (UE), but I don't necessarily agree it's worth it on a spellstitched character unless you're spellstitching yourself. Dear god is that spell meaty, along with the SC Deathbound-unique spells, if you're aiming for necromancy.)


Yea, I think that way, but didn't find anything that specifies it.
PS: what does UE means?

 Rapid Infusion feat, but that's 1/day. Pick up the Heroic Spirit feat if you can fit it in (it's a good choice for arties anyway).

I don't see Races of Eberron on that list, so the usual trick (Persistent Unfettered Heroism + Wand Surge = unlimited anything) doesn't seem to be available.


Actually I can't use any of this. The first feat and the unfettered heroism aren't from the allowed books. The second feat gives more action points, the thing is that we don't play with them, that's why I wanted another way to do it. The only thing that I can think of is doing the persistent trick with the infusions themselves, or by scrolls.

 Dungeonscape, I think, is the sourcebook on this. Here's the poisoner's handbook.


It's never been specified in a source I've read, but I also haven't read Drow of the Underdark.

Although if you're using Minor Creation, please use the psionic version - it's level 1 instead of level 4 (at the expense of being shaper-exclusive).


I've read the post, but I couldn't find much about the rules of custom posions.

 Antimagic shackles (Book of Exalted Deeds) and magebane shackles (Arms and Equipment Guide) both produce continuous antimagic fields, but are problematic to use in battle.


They work when fastened or locked onto the creature, but I don't think there's anything stopping them from working when you just fasten or lock them onto one arm or leg.


The thing with the antimagic shackles is that they are... well.. shacles... so using on the fighter itself will immobilize the fighter, or prevent him from attacking. And using them on an opponent is quiet dangerous because of contigencies and is hard to put, because you need to stablish a pin first. 
Something I forget to mention about the fighter is that it's probably gonna be half giant or half ogre, maybe based on grapple, and winged, because there's no way he can catch an opponent that use fly on itself without magical flying (that can't be used in an AMF zone). Also I forget to mention that I've read somewhere of PrC/feat that allows you to place an area effect on a creature with a successful hit. Arcane archer is one, but I remember there's one that do it on melee attacks.

Well, thx guys for the tips 
#6

Maat_Mons

Jan 04, 2012 13:46:24
The thing with the antimagic shackles is that they are... well.. shacles... so using on the fighter itself will immobilize the fighter, or prevent him from attacking.

Maybe you could put the shackles on a small zombie and strap it to yourself.

#7

ElVizard

Jan 04, 2012 15:30:09
Maybe you could put the shackles on a small zombie and strap it to yourself.


LOL... nice (and wierd) idea xD 
#8

Slagger_the_Chuul

Jan 04, 2012 15:50:26
The thing with the antimagic shackles is that they are... well.. shacles... so using on the fighter itself will immobilize the fighter, or prevent him from attacking. And using them on an opponent is quiet dangerous because of contigencies and is hard to put, because you need to stablish a pin first.

If you assume that the item just needs all the clasping sections to be locked onto the creature, you could simply lock them all onto one of your arms and wear the item like a slightly clunky bracer.  If, instead, all the clasping sections have to be locked onto separate limbs for the item to function, you start to have questions about what happens if a creature naturally doesn't have those limbs (like a naga), or has suffered an injury; is a one-armed mage immune to antimagic shackles?.

What makes sense for activation is that all the clasping sections of the item have to be locked onto the creature, but that their exact arrangement is unimportant as far as making its magic function is concerned; locking someone up properly with them is simply what you do to further disable a prisoner as an addition to shutting down their magic.

Funnily enough, the text of the antimagic shackles does not explicitly state that they need to be fastened to a creature to function.  If just going by the RAW, you could make them work by fastening them to a lamppost or doorknob just as easily as a creature.
#9

ElVizard

Jan 04, 2012 18:02:01
If you assume that the item just needs all the clasping sections to be locked onto the creature, you could simply lock them all onto one of your arms and wear the item like a slightly clunky bracer.  If, instead, all the clasping sections have to be locked onto separate limbs for the item to function, you start to have questions about what happens if a creature naturally doesn't have those limbs (like a naga), or has suffered an injury; is a one-armed mage immune to antimagic shackles?.

What makes sense for activation is that all the clasping sections of the item have to be locked onto the creature, but that their exact arrangement is unimportant as far as making its magic function is concerned; locking someone up properly with them is simply what you do to further disable a prisoner as an addition to shutting down their magic.

Funnily enough, the text of the antimagic shackles does not explicitly state that they need to be fastened to a creature to function.  If just going by the RAW, you could make them work by fastening them to a lamppost or doorknob just as easily as a creature. 



You're right. You can consider it that way. I really hate that armors that give SR aren't balanced for their level, specially since spellcasters have LOTS of ways to overcome that SR. An armor with SR 13 can be obtained (theorically, at the minimu CL that can be created) at level 6. That is... a 9 at the d20. At this point, it depends much on the dice. But one with SR 15 can be obtained at level 9, that is... a 6 at the d20. A wizard at this level can cast assay spell resistance, so he doesn't even need to roll. And there's a LOT of ways to improve CL, and even more to improve SR checks.  So the SR an armor gives is practically a joke =/
#10

draco1119

Jan 04, 2012 20:01:43
2) Is there any creature that is Evil Outsider with low ECL. I'm trying to do a Fiend of Possesion at low levels, and the most problematic point of it's requierments is that it needs to be "evil outsider". Incredibly the Fiendish Creature template doesn't make you outsider or even evil.

How low?  The ToB has the Reth Dekala (CR4, 5HD) and the Naityan Rakshasa (CR7, 9HD).  In the ECS, there are the Tsucora Quori (CR7, 6HD).  MM2 has the Abyssal Maw and Abyssal Skulker (CR2, 2HD each), Abyssal Ravager (CR5, 3HD), Jovoc (CR5, 4HD), Advespa (CR3, 4HD)... If your options weren't so limited, I could also point you to the Abyssal Eviscerator in the MiniHB.  CR4 with 4HD.
4) Any way to reduce the casting time of artificer's infusions without using action points? Some infusions are very good, specially the ones that work on weapons. But they have horrible casting time to use them in battle and a short duration to use them outside without knowing you are about to get into a battle.
I really can't understand why Complete Arcane is allowed, but Complete Mage isn't.  If it was, the Rapid Metamagic feat would be an option.
5)
Any book that speak about making you own posion with custom DC? and any source that says about taking your own posion doesn't cost for making it? That is, I want to polymorph/shapechange into a creature with posion (and probably high it's Constitution, for the DC) , and fill some recipients with it's posion. I found in DMG and CAd that you can make your own posion at 1/6 of it's market price if you have "access" to the raw materials. But by "access" it can be understood: "access to a provider that gives you the raw materials easily" or "you have access to the raw poison". By the wording, if you have the raw posion, you can create it for free (maybe you still need the time to make it). By the second one, you still have to pay the costs for making it, which can be avoided (maybe, if your DM thinks that way) if you use Fabricate. I didn't find anywhere that if I create my own posion, the final product has the same DC and damage as the raw materials. Also it doesn't specifies in the MM how a posion damage augment when the creature gets bigger.
Actually... I don't remember specifically, but the Alchemist PrC from Magic of Eberron might.
#11

ElVizard

Jan 04, 2012 21:00:08
How low?  The ToB has the Reth Dekala (CR4, 5HD) and the Naityan Rakshasa (CR7, 9HD).  In the ECS, there are the Tsucora Quori (CR7, 6HD).  MM2 has the Abyssal Maw and Abyssal Skulker (CR2, 2HD each), Abyssal Ravager (CR5, 3HD), Jovoc (CR5, 4HD), Advespa (CR3, 4HD)... If your options weren't so limited, I could also point you to the Abyssal Eviscerator in the MiniHB.  CR4 with 4HD.


I was looking for low LA creatures, to play a PC. Sorry if I didn't specified that. The lowest ECL I've found is the Dretch at 4 ECL. But naityan Rakshasa seems a good option besides its ECL.

really can't understand why Complete Arcane is allowed, but Complete Mage isn't.  If it was, the Rapid Metamagic feat would be an option.


The reason is that me and my friends actually have spanish as our native language. I can understand english and speak a bit (a little tarzan-style, but I do what I can :P), but some of the players don't. So we play with spanish sources. Half the completes weren't released in spanish: Mage, Scoundrel, Champion and Psionic, my favorites xD (except maybe for the Adv and the Arc). Neither the Races (another bs ¬¬), Dungeonscape, Frostburn, LoM, DotU,  FE, MoE, MoI and ToM (why, Devir why? T__T ). That's the reason why I'm a little limited on the books
#12

draco1119

Jan 04, 2012 22:57:30
How low?  The ToB has the Reth Dekala (CR4, 5HD) and the Naityan Rakshasa (CR7, 9HD).  In the ECS, there are the Tsucora Quori (CR7, 6HD).  MM2 has the Abyssal Maw and Abyssal Skulker (CR2, 2HD each), Abyssal Ravager (CR5, 3HD), Jovoc (CR5, 4HD), Advespa (CR3, 4HD)... If your options weren't so limited, I could also point you to the Abyssal Eviscerator in the MiniHB.  CR4 with 4HD.

I was looking for low LA creatures, to play a PC. Sorry if I didn't specified that. The lowest ECL I've found is the Dretch at 4 ECL. But naityan Rakshasa seems a good option besides its ECL.

The Quasit (MM1) has 3 HD with no LA.  MM2 doesn't list LAs for its demons, but both the Abyssal Maw and Abyssal Skulker have the same HD as a dretch, with less special qualities.  I don't think it would be out of line to give the Maw an LA of +1 (tops!) and the Skulker an LA of 0.  The Maw gets Rend, and the Skulker has nothing other than Outsider Traits.
I really can't understand why Complete Arcane is allowed, but Complete Mage isn't.  If it was, the Rapid Metamagic feat would be an option.

The reason is that me and my friends actually have spanish as our native language. I can understand english and speak a bit (a little tarzan-style, but I do what I can :P), but some of the players don't. So we play with spanish sources. Half the completes weren't released in spanish: Mage, Scoundrel, Champion and Psionic, my favorites xD (except maybe for the Adv and the Arc). Neither the Races (another bs ¬¬), Dungeonscape, Frostburn, LoM, DotU,  FE, MoE, MoI and ToM (why, Devir why? T__T ). That's the reason why I'm a little limited on the books



That's... that's horrible!  Rapid Metamagic is a feat that was designed for spontaneous casters.  It allows them to apply metamgic feats to their spells without upping the casting time.  The metamagic still increases the spell's level, though.  And there is a caster level prereq, though it's fairly low.  CL 5, IIRC.  Since the ECS specifically states that artificers apply metamgic feats like sorcerors, it should work for them.  If it doesn't, Rapid Infusion is the artificer version.
#13

Slagger_the_Chuul

Jan 05, 2012 0:07:11
2) Is there any creature that is Evil Outsider with low ECL. I'm trying to do a Fiend of Possesion at low levels, and the most problematic point of it's requierments is that it needs to be "evil outsider".

When I made one, I used the ECL 4 kaorti (which is also from the Fiend Folio) which provides an excellent setup for entry.

#14

ElVizard

Jan 05, 2012 0:29:51
The Quasit (MM1) has 3 HD with no LA.  MM2 doesn't list LAs for its demons, but both the Abyssal Maw and Abyssal Skulker have the same HD as a dretch, with less special qualities.  I don't think it would be out of line to give the Maw an LA of +1 (tops!) and the Skulker an LA of 0.  The Maw gets Rend, and the Skulker has nothing other than Outsider Traits.


We actually play with the wording of the MM which says that some creatures aren't able for PC's, theorically, the ones that doesn't show any LA (this can be read at the LA entry in the MM).

 

That's... that's horrible!  Rapid Metamagic is a feat that was designed for spontaneous casters.  It allows them to apply metamgic feats to their spells without upping the casting time.  The metamagic still increases the spell's level, though.  And there is a caster level prereq, though it's fairly low.  CL 5, IIRC.  Since the ECS specifically states that artificers apply metamgic feats like sorcerors, it should work for them.  If it doesn't, Rapid Infusion is the artificer version.


Yup, I hate that sometimes there's a really easy way to do something but I need to look for another way cause it's from an english-only source

When I made one, I used the ECL 4 kaorti (which is also from the Fiend Folio) which provides an excellent setup for entry.


Great! I really like it. At least it doesn't look like goblin after beign hit by a truck. It also has nice ability scores, and some SLA that can be useful sometime.
#15

ElVizard

Jan 07, 2012 14:51:51
Three more questions added