Erudite (Kineticist) 10 / Anarchic Initiate 10 // what now?
Feats: Overchannel, Psionic Meditation, Empower Power, Privileged Energy, Paraelemental Power
ACF: Spell-to-power erudite variant
The plan: Damage, damage, damage. The spell-to-power Erudite, IMHO, has an advantage over a straight Kineticist as a blaster, being able to take advantage of uncapped damage spells (e.g. Maw of Chaos, Wings of Flurry) and spells not duplicated by powers, while still remaining a versatile blaster even late in the day due to the natural flexibility of direct-damage powers (with a few minor debuffs added by Paraelemental Power.) Combined with the AI's average increase in damage, we're talking about fairly large numbers here.
What I don't have is a good "other half" of this gestalt build. Incarnate might be a worthwhile choice, so that I could take the midnight/psycarnum feats for a little extra essentia - there are a lot of good soulmelds out there as well. Perhaps a rogue or scout on the other side for precision damage added to weaponlike powers?
On the other hand, is there a better way to blast? Sorcerors are pretty good at it (and have a LOT more options for prestige classes) so I do want to consider them as an option. Warmages... I've not been convinced by the arguments in their favor yet, but feel free to try.
For an exaple of a Sorcerous blaster I'm currently playing this monstrosity. Our DM lets us have 2 PrCs in gestalt (it's crazy, but fun), but the Knight of the Raven can easily just be vanilla Cleric or other base classes instead.
and most importantly, the wild surge of AI stacks with wilder. Be able to cast massively stronger powers (without contributing extra power points) is great.
At level 1, can do 2 pp
At level 2, can do 3 pp
At level 3, can do 5 pp, 3rd level astral construct at level 3
At level 4, can do 6 pp
At level 5, can do 7 pp, 4th level astral construct at level 5
At level 6, can do 8 pp
At level 7, can do 10 pp, 5th level astral construct at level 7
At level 8, can do 12 pp, 6th level astral construct at level 8
At level 9, can do 13 pp, 7th level astral construct at level 9
At level 10, can do 14 pp
At level 11, can do 16 pp, 8th level astral construct at level 11
At level 12, can do 18 pp, 9th level astral construct at level 12
At level 13, can do 19 pp
At level 14, can do 20 pp
At level 15, can do 22 pp
At level 16, can do 23 pp
At level 17, can do 24 pp
At level 18, can do 25 pp
At level 19, can do 27 pp
At level 20, can do 28 pp
Dispels also get a good boost, as does powers that have a save due to power points.
Wilder will give you more powers known (choose powers without a save), expanded knowledge feats (adding more powers known), power points
and most importantly, the wild surge of AI stacks with wilder. Be able to cast massively stronger powers (without contributing extra power points) is great.
Granted, but a wilder only gets 11 powers known at level 20, and blowing a feat slot - even more precious in gestalt - on another power seems like a real waste. Plus I wouldn't be able to combine the wilder and erudite power point pools - I'd take the better each level. That seems like a waste. I'll grant you that wilder and AI's stacking wild surge is nice, but the 40% chance of psychic enervation you describe isn't exactly helpful. And this doesn't give better saves, hit dice, or the like, either, which means I'm giving up one of the biggest advantages of gestalt.
DaveTheMagicWeasel - interesting build. The Fire-Souled template looks extremely useful as a means of avoiding the dazing effect of wild surge (which AI grants) - thanks!
The original is LA +3 I'm afraid.
Oh, the Fire-Souled I'm using is a variant my DM house-ruled into existence (LA +1, then bought off).
The original is LA +3 I'm afraid.
That's unfortunate -- that's a bit too steep of a price, I think.
However, let me bounce this idea off you and everyone else:
Ardent 5 / Psion Uncarnate 10 / AI 2 / Elocator 1 / X 2 // Scout 5 / Ranger 15 (not in that order necessarily).
Mantles: Energy, Force, Mental, Time
Feats: Practiced Manifester, Overchannel, Talented, Swift Hunter, Imp. Skirmish, and the rest described above
ACFs: Favored Enemy: Arcanist; Spell Reflection
What it gets me: I still get to do the Overchannel thing to improve my manifester level and have most or all of the important Kineticist powers (I can refine mantles later.) Full manifesting due to the wonky way Ardent works, plus incorporeality (which grants a +1 to save DCs). I also get +7 AC and +7d6 skirmish damage if I move 20 feet, and the skirmish damage applies on weaponlike spells - if it's a favored enemy, it applies even if otherwise immune to precision damage. Overchannel's damage is compensated for by better hit dice from Ranger (not great, but better.) All this plus the AI feature, which might also increase skirmish damage (i'm AFB and will need to check, though.) Decent BAB for touch attack powers. Monk's Belt seems a natural fit, since it's based off WIS, and Will saves will be through the roof.
Thoughts? I've never really planned out an ardent before, so I'm sure it needs some work.
Granted, but a wilder only gets 11 powers known at level 20, and blowing a feat slot - even more precious in gestalt - on another power seems like a real waste. Plus I wouldn't be able to combine the wilder and erudite power point pools - I'd take the better each level. That seems like a waste. I'll grant you that wilder and AI's stacking wild surge is nice, but the 40% chance of psychic enervation you describe isn't exactly helpful. And this doesn't give better saves, hit dice, or the like, either, which means I'm giving up one of the biggest advantages of gestalt.
1) Wilder gives you 11 more powers known as well as 4 expanded knowledge feats for free (due to the educated wilder substitution levels located in the expanded classes mind eye articles located here)
2) Your DM is a douchebag for not allowing you to get both power points pools. It is debatable whether you should get them under gestalt rules. The closest thing is spells, which you do get, and UA came out before Expanded Psionics, so of course UA won't be saying spells and powers.
3) I forgot to mention how to avoid the 40% of enervation, IRON HEART SURGE+ Postpone Enervation. Now that pesky daze and power point loss goes away. You may also want to get immune to daze. That way you always use wild surge for buffs with no real loss, and if you do want to use wild surge in battle and you do enervate, you suffer no real loss in battle besides daze. A template in dragon called fire soul, or a feat in Dragonmarked can make you immune to daze.
4) I forgot to mention the Circlet of Wild Surging in the MIC. Page 87, costs 4,200 gp. 3 times a day, improve your wild surge by 1, but you must pay the 1 pp, and you increase your chance of enervation. No attunement periord.
5) Hit dice and saves aren't a big deal due to these powers. Vigor, Precognition Defensive. Don't like the short duration of buffs, well that is what psionic timestop is for. BAB is 3/4 which is extremly good unless for ranged touch attacks, only way you want more is if you melee.
Metamorphsis is also an awesome power with Wildsurge for unlike Polymorph you don't need to have that amount of hit dice to assume a form with a higher hit dice, all you need is the manifester level. Thus you can assume the form of a planetar at level 10 if you are an outsider type.
God I love Iron Heart Surge
If you are going for a Psi-Blaster there is no other way to go.
2) Your DM is a douchebag for not allowing you to get both power points pools. It is debatable whether you should get them under gestalt rules. The closest thing is spells, which you do get, and UA came out before Expanded Psionics, so of course UA won't be saying spells and powers.
Actually, this seems quite straightforward to me - a power point pool is a class feature, and the gestalt rules clearly say that you take the better value for a given class feature at each level. And are you actually trying to convince me of your good judgement by insulting our DM, who (like most people's DMs) is a good friend?
Try out Ardent 10 with the Energy Mantle as a Primary and also as the Dominant Ideal. It lets you blow off multiple meta-psionic feats on any Energy Mantle power at discounted cost and without expending your focus.
If you are going for a Psi-Blaster there is no other way to go.
I must have read that Mind's Eye article four times without noticing the Dominant Ideal variant. That's perfect - now I just need to find something that isn't terribly feat-intensive for the other half of the build, since I'll need a host of metapsionic feats. (If nothing else, Split Psionic Ray, Empower Power, and Paraelemental Energy, since they'll be a +0 PP adjustment.)
Stick with your original idea, and then go Factotum 20 on the other side with as may Font of Inspiration feats as you can spare. For your spells, take as many Celerities as you can. The first half of your gestalt progression gives you the ability to make things go boom. The second half lets you make things go boom 5+ times in the first round of combat (without any Fonts of Inspiration you get 1 normal standard action, 1 standard action from Celerity, and 3 standard actions from Cunning Surge). There are a lot of guides out there on what you can do to make the first half of that progression do a lot of damage. So take whatever damage they teach you how to output, multiply it by 5, then hope that that's a big enough number to kill all the monsters in 1 go.
May I ask how this is possible?
Just asking. If you don't feel like explaining, then could you tell me what books I can find these things in and see for myself please?
Thanks.
Actually, this seems quite straightforward to me - a power point pool is a class feature, and the gestalt rules clearly say that you take the better value for a given class feature at each level. And are you actually trying to convince me of your good judgement by insulting our DM, who (like most people's DMs) is a good friend?
No I am expecting you to respond to logic.
1)Expanded Psionics Handbook came out after Unearthed Arcana (the originator of the gestalt rules). Because of this UA isn't going to be talking about 3.5 psionics, at all. Thus it isn't going to make an exception to the general rules of multiple class features, like it did with spells (realize that the Gestalt rules make an exception for spells for spells are a class feature with the same name even if they have different class lists)
2)The closest analogue to power points is spells per day. In UA's gestalt rules an exception was made for spells per day due to balance reasons. If you cut a gestalt characters spells per day in half you are severely gimping it. Same logic applies to a dual psionic character.
Multiclass Psionic Characters
If you have levels in more than one psionic class, you combine your power points from each class to make up your reserve. You can use these power points to manifest powers from any psionic class you have.
While you maintain a single reserve of power points from your class, race, and feat selections, you are still limited by the manifester level you have achieved with each power you know.
Class Features
A gestalt character gains the class features of both classes. A 1st-level gestalt rogue/cleric, for example, gets sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding, 1st-level cleric spells, and the ability to turn or rebuke undead. Class- and ability-based restrictions (such as arcane spell failure chance and a druid's prohibition on wearing metal armor) apply normally to a gestalt character, no matter what the other class is.
A gestalt character follows a similar procedure when he attains 2nd and subsequent levels. Each time he gains a new level, he chooses two classes, takes the best aspects of each, and applies them to his characteristics. A few caveats apply, however.
Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate of the faster class.
Gestalt characters with more than one spellcasting class keep track of their spells per day separately.
A gestalt character can't combine two prestige classes at any level, although it's okay to combine a prestige class and a regular class. Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations - such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight - should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant. Because it’s possible for gestalt characters to qualify for prestige classes earlier than normal, the game master is entirely justified in toughening the prerequisites of a prestige class so it's available only after 5th level, even for gestalt characters.
the argument can be .... you get Int based PP from Erudite added to your PP Pool, and Cha based PP from Wilder added to your PP Pool
still if your DM want to rule otherwise ... thats fine ....
Erudite 20// Warmage 20 .... is great for Blasting(Warmage for Blasting, Erudite for utility ....
or for even more fun:
Psion 20// Warmage 10/ Radient Servant 10..... thus you can cast all the Warmage Spells, and ALL Cleric spells and have psionics on top
:D
the argument can be .... you get Int based PP from Erudite added to your PP Pool, and Cha based PP from Wilder added to your PP Pool
I could certainly see that being a very reasonable house rule. In this case, though, because it's an all-books-open, one-shot event that is largely about showing off truly silly numbers, we're trying to adhere very tightly to the rules, and the absence of a rule doesn't immediately mean it works to the player's advantage. If anything, it's usually the opposite. There's no errata or Sage/CustServ ruling that I can find on power points in gestalt (though if someone can point me to one, that'll be a big help.)
Erudite 20// Warmage 20 .... is great for Blasting(Warmage for Blasting, Erudite for utility ....
or for even more fun:
Psion 20// Warmage 10/ Radient Servant 10..... thus you can cast all the Warmage Spells, and ALL Cleric spells and have psionics on top
:D
This is tempting, and certainly solid for a long-term gestalt campaign. On the other hand, I almost feel as if I won't have enough actions in this one-shot event to put this to good use. That's one reason the Factotum suggestion struck me as interesting -- extra actions are always good.
On the other hand, even without having two distinct power pools, D.I. Ardent / AI // Psywar seems surprisingly useful. It's 20 extra powers known, Wisdom synergy, good hit dice and Fort saves, and being able to take psionic feats as bonus feats is particularly helpful for this build: Overchannel, Talented, Psionic Body, Psionic Meditation, Power Specialization, Psychic Endowment -- all important psionic feats, and that's just the XPH.
I'll take a look at the Factotum tonight and talk to one of our regulars who's actually played one before -- he should be able to provide some helpful insight.
This is tempting, and certainly solid for a long-term gestalt campaign. On the other hand, I almost feel as if I won't have enough actions in this one-shot event to put this to good use. That's one reason the Factotum suggestion struck me as interesting -- extra actions are always good.
try these:
Schism
Telepathy [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Telepath 4
Display: Auditory and visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Power Points: 7
Your mind splits into two independent parts. Each part functions in complete autonomy, like two characters in one body. Your new “second mind” does not control your body physically but is free to take one standard action in each round if the action is purely mental (such as manifesting a power) in the same round you take your normal actions.
Your second mind can manifest powers using your power point reserve, but only as if your manifester level were six lower than it is. Your second mind doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity when manifesting a power, because doing so doesn’t distract your primary mind.
Your second mind takes its first action on your turn in the round after schism is manifested.
Both your minds communicate with each other telepathically. If you are subject to a compulsion or charm effect while you are of two minds, make a second saving throw if you fail the first. If you fail both, then the schism ends and you are affected normally by the power. If you fail just one, the schism ends immediately, but you are not subject to the compulsion or charm.
Your second mind does not gain any advantages if you are subject to a haste effect, although you gain the overall standard benefits.
also try this:
Hustle
Psychometabolism
Level: Egoist 3, psychic warrior 2
Display: Auditory
Manifesting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Effect: 1 extra move action
Power Points: Egoist 5, psychic warrior 3
You gain an additional move action in the current round. Taking a full round’s worth of attacks and then using this power to move away from your foe does provoke attacks of opportunity.
You can manifest this power with an instant thought, quickly enough to gain the benefit of the power before you move. Manifesting the power is a swift action, like manifesting a quickened power, and it counts toward the normal limit of one quickened power per round. You cannot manifest this power when it isn’t your turn.
use your regular actions for Spells.... and the Schismed Actions for Psionics :P
:D
May I ask how this is possible?
Just asking. If you don't feel like explaining, then could you tell me what books I can find these things in and see for myself please?
Thanks.
Factotum = Dungeonscape
Celerity = PHB 2
Font of Inspiration = Here
Celerity gives you a standard action as a swift action at the cost of being dazed next round and Cunning Surge gives you an extra standard action per 3 inspiration points you spend on it. Just by empowering a spell without a damage cap like Wings of Flurry (RoD) you can use this set up to deal 150d6 of damage in the first round of combat. However, if you invest feats into metamagicing the heck out of a spell you can break the 300d6 mark extremely easily (empower + twin spell on Wings of Flurry with some form of metamagic reduction does the trick).
Factotum = Dungeonscape
Celerity = PHB 2
Font of Inspiration = Here
Celerity gives you a standard action as a swift action at the cost of being dazed next round and Cunning Surge gives you an extra standard action per 3 inspiration points you spend on it. Just by empowering a spell without a damage cap like Wings of Flurry (RoD) you can use this set up to deal 150d6 of damage in the first round of combat. However, if you invest feats into metamagicing the heck out of a spell you can break the 300d6 mark extremely easily (empower + twin spell on Wings of Flurry with some form of metamagic reduction does the trick).
Whoa damn...
That is very nice. Thanks a lot for the info, I appreciate the help
I was curious and just had to know.