Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 hakeashar Jan 13, 2013 1:30:03	Greetings folks, I am requesting help for one of two things here:  1)      A main-tank type that relies on grace over brawn (i.e. Dex > Str), (hopefully) eventually becoming a Bladesinger.  So gish-like with a concentration on BAB over caster level. 2)      A secondary tank-Xxx hybrid, mad damage dealer.  I’m attempting to work Duelist in there. The interesting part here is I am somewhat limited to D&D 3.0 + Forgotten Realms supplements (as the GM does not like 3.5’s immediate and swift action types).  He also likes the limited spells and the duration of the stat buffs, I guess. I’m starting with the 3.5 Swashbuckler (anything 3.5 must be approved by the GM, so I’ve done due diligence here) as my base, just wondering where to go from there. My two racial choices so far are Catfolk (+1 LA, 3.5) and Drow (+2 LA).  So far, it looks as if Drow works best with #1 and Catfolk with #2. For my 1st level feat as the Drow, it’s Light adaptation.  For the Catfolk, I haven’t decided yet. The stats work off all 10s and using 30 points on a point-for-point basis up to max (by race) and we are allowed 3 levels to work with. My stats as yet:  12 Str, 18 Dex, 14 Con, 18 Int, 10 Wis, 12 Cha.  I am somewhat of a skill hound, and also why I aimed for either the Bladesinger or Duelist build. I'd like to see what options I might have available.  Any and all suggestions welcomed and thanks very much for your time. Cheers!
#2 Maat_Mons Jan 13, 2013 3:14:05	I recommend against any race with a level adjustment. The two most basic gish options are duskblade (Player's Handbook II, p19) and battle sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana, p56). Are you using the Races of Faerun version of bladesinger? At 6th level, that one lets you cast a spell as a swift action any time you make a full attack.
#3 hakeashar Jan 13, 2013 3:43:00	I like the duskblade but I'm unsure he would allow it, I will question. The battle sorceror looks intriguing, I'll look at it. It will be the Races of Faerun version, yes.  I like the capability of swift action casting (which is basically like the Duskblade's ability, although way more often).  All the players at the table agreed the other versions of 3.0 Bladesingers were, while playable, RAW:  poorly. The campaign is a Planescape-esque one, so the GM is encouraging non-standard races. Thanks for your help!
#4 nistra Jan 14, 2013 5:55:31	Go bard and drop church organs via Summon Magical instrument on the bad guys. The DM will start loving 3.5
#5 Tempest_Stormwind Jan 14, 2013 13:10:08	One immediate thing you will notice in 3e is that buff spells, particularly on the cleric list, last much, much longer (typically hours/level instead of minutes/level). Much of what was written for 3.5 clerics was based around Divine Metamagic getting buff spells to last longer; much of this can be transferred to 3e without the 3.5 feats simply because several of the buff spells already last all day after around level 6 or 8. In 3e, it was exceedingly difficult to do a Dexterity-based melee-type that didn't utterly suck. It was still hard to do it in 3.5 until the Tome of Battle came out (one of its big points on the CO board was making Dexterity-SAD characters much easier to do).  (Interestingly, you think the duskblade's ability is less often than the Bladesinger's? That's only true if you look at Quick Cast. Duskblades can instead use Arcane Channelling (cast a touch spell and attack together as a standard action, delivering the touch spell through the weapon attack) as often as they have spell slots, and if there's one resource with which a duskblade is overendowed, it's spell slots.) For a light game like you're describing, though, duskblade (even duskblade 20) should work for one of them. They're hard to make Dexterity-dependent but might work well in the second case. See if you can get it allowed (even without Quick Cast; that's minor). I don't think your DM will like it though: he hates some of the best stuff of 3.5 (including swifts and immediates - although 3e had shades of this with partial actions). The bladesinger is a more interesting choice if it's the RoF version. I'll have to look back through the 3e strata of my notes to see if I have anything on them, but offhand, I think Battle Sorcerer might be one of the simplest entrance points though not the best. (The usual "simple" approach to arcane gishing in 3.5 involves Spellsword and Abjurant Champion; the latter is 3.5 only and the former's 3e version won't work (both versions lost half their CLs, but the original 3e lost them on odd levels, so the one-level dip hurt).) The battle sorcerer is basically just a variant on the regular sorcerer - a good one too - and nothing in it is terribly locked to 3.5. You can apply the same approach to the 3e sorcerer and modify it as needed - the biggest change is the lack of ability to rotate spells known. If you want an alternate take on the "Grace over brawn" approach with the bladesinger, though, consider one of the following: -"Sorcadin" - a sorcerer-based spellcaster who has a one-level dip in Paladin and otherwise remains true to the paladin code. This is especially good in 3e, since all the paladin's best abilities came online at level 1. (In 3.5, you usually used a two-level dip instead.) This dramatically increases your Charisma's strength (as Charisma governs your spellcasting as well as applying to all your saving throws and making sure your once-daily smite will connect). From here you look into other Charisma-based spellcasting increasers. I don't recall offhand what these may be for 3e though. -Ask to copy the 3.5 feat Snowflake Wardance. Basically, this allows any bard to pick up a one-handed slashing weapon and dance through the crowd, using Charisma as a combat stat. It's a good ability. There's a lot of good equipment wardancers tend to need, but a lot of it's 3.5; there are a few alternatives to this in the 3e Arms & Equipment Guide which might substitute though. --A potentially more interesting approach to this would involve the 3.5 Sublime Chord (basically transforms the bard into a sorcerer over time, decreasing its musical ability and skills but interacting much better with magic, including high-level magic), and advancing that with Bladesinger (and keeping Snowflake Wardance as your melee form). I'm not sure if or how this would work though, as I'm away from my books and not terribly familiar with the RoF Bladesinger. I'm just dumping out ideas now, so I'll stop, but I hope that helped.