A loophole that makes DMs cry - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

A loophole that makes DMs cry

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
sinfire_titan
Mar 31, 2008 12:57:18 Books required: SRD, Races of the Dragon, Complete Mage, Complete Arcane, Exemplars of Evil

Stats: Int:17+. All other stats are irrelevant. Except Con.

Flaws: Any two.
Alternate Class Features: Focused Specialist, and your choice on any others.
Feats needed to pull it off: Spell Mastery, Uncanny Forethought, Precocious Apprentice, Versatile Spellcaster, and either Improved Init or Scribe Scroll.

How it works:

Precocious Apprentice
Complete Arcane wrote:
#2
Senevri
Mar 31, 2008 15:13:51 Why the double post?
*edit*
Oh, right.
#3
callix
Apr 01, 2008 6:26:05 You want 9th level spells? Just make him Old. +2 all mental, -3 all physical. And Meteor Swarm or Power Word: Kill at level 1.

Good find, and belongs here more than over at CO. May I be the first to say here, "gratz".
#4
with-motion
Apr 01, 2008 14:01:03
Versatile Spellcaster. By forgoing the two spell slots given by Focused Specialist, you gain a single slot one level higher than those two given up.

I'm pretty sure you're misinterpreting the feat here. As written:
You can use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher. For example, a sorcerer with this feat can expend two 2nd-level spell slots to cast any 3rd-level spell he knows.

It allows you to cast a spell a level higher which you know, it doesn't actually grant a new spell known... I may be missing something, but I think the loophole would just end at level 2 spells.
#5
Senevri
Apr 02, 2008 4:05:12 Needs Extra Spell, then.
But, even as a "cast two second-level spells at 1st level" it's plenty powerful.
#6
the_mad_linguist
Apr 02, 2008 5:39:20 More spells known?

Doesn't arcane disciple do that?
#7
sinfire_titan
Apr 02, 2008 15:31:34
Needs Extra Spell, then.
But, even as a "cast two second-level spells at 1st level" it's plenty powerful.

DCFS+Elder Evils=Infinite Spells/Day.
#8
thedragonmaster
Apr 04, 2008 10:56:41 What is DCFS?
#9
the_mad_linguist
Apr 04, 2008 17:15:17 Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle, most likely.
#10
bergtann
Apr 05, 2008 16:12:06 Versatile Spellcaster does not give you any spell slots, it allows you to cast spells without using a spell slot.

Also, by text, it can't be used to cast spells higher than you can cast by normal means.
#11
thedragonmaster
Apr 07, 2008 15:33:08
Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle, most likely.

Ok... I know that as Abyssal Retraining...
#12
bergtann
Apr 07, 2008 16:41:28 You can use Versatile Spellcaster to break the Ultimate Magus. Or even wizard x/Beguiler 1.

You can sack wizard slots to cast beguiler spells. Versatile Spellcaster only checks if you can cast that level of spells "normally", not that you can cast it with your spont class. So if you can cast it as a wizard, that satisfies the VS restriction.

A beguiler knows all the spells of a level as soon as he can cast a spell of that level. There are many ways to add a spell known. So if you add a 9th level spell known, it unlocks all the 9th level Beguiler spells.

Versatile Spellcaster lets you cast them without 9th level beguiler slots, by saccing two 8th level slots from your wizard side. Note that you need to be able cast 9th level spells anyway, so not totaly broken.

Jameswilliamoogles discovery.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sinfire_titan Mar 31, 2008 12:57:18	Books required: SRD, Races of the Dragon, Complete Mage, Complete Arcane, Exemplars of Evil Stats: Int:17+. All other stats are irrelevant. Except Con. Flaws: Any two. Alternate Class Features: Focused Specialist, and your choice on any others. Feats needed to pull it off: Spell Mastery, Uncanny Forethought, Precocious Apprentice, Versatile Spellcaster, and either Improved Init or Scribe Scroll. How it works: Precocious Apprentice Complete Arcane wrote:
#2 Senevri Mar 31, 2008 15:13:51	Why the double post? edit Oh, right.
#3 callix Apr 01, 2008 6:26:05	You want 9th level spells? Just make him Old. +2 all mental, -3 all physical. And Meteor Swarm or Power Word: Kill at level 1. Good find, and belongs here more than over at CO. May I be the first to say here, "gratz".
#4 with-motion Apr 01, 2008 14:01:03	Versatile Spellcaster. By forgoing the two spell slots given by Focused Specialist, you gain a single slot one level higher than those two given up. I'm pretty sure you're misinterpreting the feat here. As written: You can use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher. For example, a sorcerer with this feat can expend two 2nd-level spell slots to cast any 3rd-level spell he knows. It allows you to cast a spell a level higher which you know, it doesn't actually grant a new spell known... I may be missing something, but I think the loophole would just end at level 2 spells.
#5 Senevri Apr 02, 2008 4:05:12	Needs Extra Spell, then. But, even as a "cast two second-level spells at 1st level" it's plenty powerful.
#6 the_mad_linguist Apr 02, 2008 5:39:20	More spells known? Doesn't arcane disciple do that?
#7 sinfire_titan Apr 02, 2008 15:31:34	Needs Extra Spell, then. But, even as a "cast two second-level spells at 1st level" it's plenty powerful. DCFS+Elder Evils=Infinite Spells/Day.
#8 thedragonmaster Apr 04, 2008 10:56:41	What is DCFS?
#9 the_mad_linguist Apr 04, 2008 17:15:17	Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle, most likely.
#10 bergtann Apr 05, 2008 16:12:06	Versatile Spellcaster does not give you any spell slots, it allows you to cast spells without using a spell slot. Also, by text, it can't be used to cast spells higher than you can cast by normal means.
#11 thedragonmaster Apr 07, 2008 15:33:08	Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle, most likely. Ok... I know that as Abyssal Retraining...
#12 bergtann Apr 07, 2008 16:41:28	You can use Versatile Spellcaster to break the Ultimate Magus. Or even wizard x/Beguiler 1. You can sack wizard slots to cast beguiler spells. Versatile Spellcaster only checks if you can cast that level of spells "normally", not that you can cast it with your spont class. So if you can cast it as a wizard, that satisfies the VS restriction. A beguiler knows all the spells of a level as soon as he can cast a spell of that level. There are many ways to add a spell known. So if you add a 9th level spell known, it unlocks all the 9th level Beguiler spells. Versatile Spellcaster lets you cast them without 9th level beguiler slots, by saccing two 8th level slots from your wizard side. Note that you need to be able cast 9th level spells anyway, so not totaly broken. Jameswilliamoogles discovery.