A Psion Who Uses Her Hands...

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

johnnyarkham

May 17, 2008 22:39:27		I'm sorry to bother the august sages of the CharOps boards with this, as I'm certain it's a paltry problem. But, it was suggested that I lay my problem at your feet and hope for the best.
And so I shall.

A player in my group wishes to play a Psion (Telepath). However, in those rare instances when she'll need to actually get her hands dirty, she prefers to use only her hands. NO weapons whatsoever.

But, she also doesn't want to multiclass away from Psion.

What can you suggest? Is there a feat or three that will help this Psion offer more than a stinging slap when faced with danger?

Any help you can provide would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks so much,
Arkham
#2

22_Over_7

May 17, 2008 22:57:24 		Superior Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle). Might take a while to get though. Also, if you can swing size increases, that'll work great.
#3

salla

May 17, 2008 23:01:17 		http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hammer.htm
#4

erhnamdj

May 18, 2008 0:18:09 		You know, it's kinda funny how often I already know what I'm going to post in a thread just from looking at the title. In the case, that was: Tashalatora. One monk level may be a hefty price to pay, though. My memory may be faltering, but I seem to recall being able to get Tashalatora without actually taking any monk levels. It required... three? feats, though.
#5

Nibbler

May 18, 2008 21:54:20 		Expanded Knowledge: Metamorphosis
Then she can use her hands, claws, fangs, tentacles, whatever.
#6

nicro007

May 18, 2008 22:51:53 		Claws of the Beast (or Claws of Darkness) is also another alternative for getting more damage out of your two hands.
#7

carnivore

May 19, 2008 5:30:05 		id personally suggest a combination of Nibblers and nicro007s ideas:

1)Use Metamorphosis to get a nice Combat Form(something with a Big Str and Natural Armor, and EX special Attack(Imp Grab, Rend, Rake, etc...)

2)use Claws of the Beast to improve the new forms Natural Weapons


heres an example:

Human
9th level Psion(egoist)

32 point buy

10 Str
14 Dex
14 Con
18 Int(base 16 +2 levels)
14 Wis
10 Cha

manifest Claws of the Beast(Full augment) early in day.... it is a long duration Buff, and the Claws are RETRACTABLE, so nobody needs to know you are always armed

use Metamorphosis to get Annis Hag form(Large Monstrous Humanoid)+10 Natural Armor, Str 25, Dex 12, Con 14,Improved grab, rake 1d6+7, rend 2d6+10

now your Stats look like this:

25 Str
12 Dex
14 Con
18 Int(base 16 +2 levels)
14 Wis
10 Cha

3d6 Claw Damage(due to being a Large Creature from Metamorphosis)


when not Metamorphed... you will do 2d6 with your Claw(you dont have 2 attacks until you get +6 BAB)

there are Many good combat forms, that are even better than this(Cave Troll, Bladerager troll, etc....), just find one you like.



:D
#8

johnnyarkham

May 19, 2008 6:04:19 		Excellent ideas all around, folks.
Thanks so much!
#9

radicaltaoist

May 19, 2008 9:32:16
I'm sorry to bother the august sages of the CharOps boards with this, as I'm certain it's a paltry problem.

Don't be.

Now, the advice given here is good, and keep in mind you can use natural attacks and unarmed strikes to deliver touch powers. Consider the Close-Quarters Fighting feat from Complete Warrior and the Opportunity Power feat in the XPH. It is an expensive combination, but one with a nifty payoff. Gotta love shoving the Tarrasque off you with a Dissipating Touch when he tries to swallow you whole.
#10

phaedrusxy

May 19, 2008 10:32:01 		If she has the money to spare, tack a monk's belt on top of some of the other suggestions. You can use the monk's unarmed strike routine and then use all of your natural weapons (claws, bites, etc) as secondary attacks (-5 penalty to hit, 1/2 str bonus to damage).

I wouldn't multiclass into monk, though. If you're mainly wanting to be a psion, it isn't worth lowering your ML.
#11

womblehunter

May 19, 2008 11:23:33 		I'm confused. Aren't psions basically wizards? Why would a wizard even want a weapon of any sort?
#12

animefunkmaster

May 19, 2008 12:54:42
I'm confused. Aren't psions basically wizards? Why would a wizard even want a weapon of any sort?

For those rare times that s/he might need them. The op was saying that in those rare moment the Psion in question would like to be unarmed.
#13

carnivore

May 19, 2008 14:58:08 		sometimes Physical Combat(Melee) is more efficient for dealing Damage than Spells/Powers ..... also Psions need to budget thier PP to last the day, thus if they can find Long Duration Powers that help them to survive it works great

here is another way to do a Lot of damage without using PP:

Human
10th level Psion(ANY)

32 point buy

14 Str(base 13 +1 level)
14 Dex(base 13 +1 level)
14 Con
16 Int(base 16)
14 Wis
8 Cha

feats:


Psionic Fist(human Bonus)
Psicrystal Affinity(psion Bonus)
1st lvl: Improved unarmed Strike
3rd lvl: Psicrystal Containment
5th lvl: Psionic meditation(psion Bonus)
6th lvl: Extend Power
9th lvl: Superior unarmed Strike
10th lvl: Greater Psionic Fist(psion Bonus)

now you can do as much damage Unarmed as many armed characters can, and you dont spend any PP ..... later you will want to get Unavoidable Strike... to make Melee Touch Attacks


:D
#14

johnnyarkham

May 19, 2008 21:39:37 		Fan-bloody-tastic!

One question; where does Superior Unarmed Strike come from? I can't seem to find it in my books.

Thanks so much, everyone. This is very very helpful!
#15

quarianrex

May 19, 2008 21:51:37 		Superior Unarmed Strike is from the Tome of Battle.
#16

phaedrusxy

May 20, 2008 0:12:23
Psionic Fist(human Bonus)
Psicrystal Affinity(psion Bonus)
1st lvl: Improved unarmed Strike
3rd lvl: Psicrystal Containment
5th lvl: Psionic meditation(psion Bonus)
6th lvl: Extend Power
9th lvl: Superior unarmed Strike
10th lvl: Greater Psionic Fist(psion Bonus)
:D

Holy crap that is alot of feats dedicated to something that you really don't want to use. I'd rather just buy a monk's belt and take Metamorphosis as a power. It's a LOT less resource intensive. I'd only invest that many feats in something if I intended it to be a main "shtick" of the character.
#17

carnivore

May 20, 2008 5:07:44
Holy crap that is alot of feats dedicated to something that you really don't want to use. I'd rather just buy a monk's belt and take Metamorphosis as a power. It's a LOT less resource intensive. I'd only invest that many feats in something if I intended it to be a main "shtick" of the character.

true, but only some are focused on Unarmed Strikes .... the others are feats any Psion would normally take... notice:

Unarmed Strike focused feats:[indent]
Psionic Fist(human Bonus)
1st lvl: Improved unarmed Strike
9th lvl: Superior unarmed Strike
10th lvl: Greater Psionic Fist(psion Bonus)
[/indent]

Psion normal feats:[indent]
Psicrystal Affinity(psion Bonus)
3rd lvl: Psicrystal Containment
5th lvl: Psionic meditation(psion Bonus)
6th lvl: Extend Power[/indent]

although this character has spent many valuable feats for Unarmed combat... he is still a versatile psionic character .... the Addition of a Monks Belt even make him that much more Strong ..... without the use of PP

:D
#18

gaffer

May 20, 2008 14:26:45 		I'd still prefer to use Metamorphosis.
#19

carnivore

May 20, 2008 14:54:58 		i also do Prefer to use Metamorphosis, but if we use a 10th level psion as an example ... notice:

Human
10th level Psion(Egoist)

32 point buy

14 Str(base 13 +1 level)
14 Dex(base 13 +1 level)
14 Con
16 Int(base 16)
14 Wis
8 Cha

feats:
Psionic Fist(human Bonus)
Psicrystal Affinity(psion Bonus)
1st lvl: Improved unarmed Strike
3rd lvl: Psicrystal Containment
5th lvl: Psionic meditation(psion Bonus)
6th lvl: Extend Power
9th lvl: Superior unarmed Strike
10th lvl: Greater Psionic Fist(psion Bonus)


PP 88 +15 Bonus = 103 PP

if you Budget 20% for long term Buffs: 20 PP spent in morning

allowing 20 PP per encounter(assumes 4 encounters)

this will allow you to Manifest Metamorphosis(extended) once for each encounter .... and Augments Damage at the same Time... since you can still use your Unarmed Strikes with whatever Humanoid form you are in

the nice thing is ..... even when you only have a few PP left(under 7)... you are not defenseless, in fact you can still dish out 1d8+4d6 unarmed each round

:D
#20

gaffer

May 20, 2008 14:58:11 		HP average = 65
BAB = 5

Still, not terrible, I suppose.
#21

carnivore

May 20, 2008 15:16:46 		how would you improve it?

:D
#22

jameswilliamogle

May 20, 2008 16:47:24 		I've got a variation in my sig that might be interesting to you... raging vop psion/monk.

Basically uses Control Body on himself while flurrying to get past the BAB issues.
#23

gaffer

May 21, 2008 14:34:22
how would you improve it?

:D

I wouldn't. You build is fine. I was just pointing out the inherent weaknesses, not trying to tear you down.

Sorry.
#24

carnivore

May 21, 2008 15:23:06 		actually it wouldnt be too bad .... as i wasnt even thinking about powers:

Share Pain(extended.. 20 Hour duration) + Vigor + Psicrystal = hp problem solved... cost 5 PP in morning, 3 PP before fight = +30 hp(+15 self+15 psicrystal)

Precognition, Offensive(extended) = Attack problem solved +2 Insight to attack .... cost 5PP = 20 minute duration

Energy Retort = extra attack if you are attacked(1/round only) 4d6 damage,.... cost 5 PP, 10 minute duration

Empathic Feedback = damage each opponent who hits you, .... cost 7 PP, duration 1 Hour 40 min


budget .... spend 20 PP per encounter.... could substitute Metamorphosis for Empathic feedback ... for boost to AC, Attack, Damage, Movement,saves


:D