13,13,6,16,15,10 ..a 6. hmm.
And claims i can shift these numbers accordingly. There is already a wizard,fighter,cleric,and maybe even a psion and that they need a rogue. We are lv.1 and no other races than normal. So i sit and draw a picture (literaly). House rules.. Since Dungeons and Dragons is consistant of many realms. He allows Cross overs with Forgotten realms,Eastern,and standard. Feats and all. Hmm.. Str 18, Dex 18,Con 6, Int 18, Wis 3 keen intellect make up?, cha 10..?
Maybe Str 16, dex 16, Con 6, Int 18, Wis 7, Cha 10..? Feedback?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I needed to come up with something origional.. When i think of rogue i think hidden weapons,garottes,daggers in the back,blinding powders..treasures, pickpocket..but ive Already done. I want the party to look at this little guy for the first time and think (oh hes a chode,lame one shot.) but when hes geared up and ready to go. Realize he's been trained by the best. And has insight from some of the most notable heros in his kingdom.
So i decided to make a Noble (but short) figure in a squire like role. Clever and rather honest to the point of being blunt when he has to be and rank of equal or lesser is not an issue. Who's job was to oil armors, read parchments aloud, translate, and pose as an all around aid (or servant) to the much tougher and some less intelligent Knights. He's looked upon by kings ,emperors, duchess,dukes, barons, and queens as splendid in manners and humble in respects. "Sir, My lady, My lord.. type speech." His love of books has sharpened his intellect so much he may apply it in skills most cannot. Adopted and family lineage unknown he was proclaimed of noble line by Baron La Cross (I know its a kinda off shot name. But it soudned good for the background right? I demand feedback! :P )
..how to arrange the stats. Im perplexed slightly with my min maxed strength and dex attributes. constitution im willing to sacrifice since i want to stress he is not meant to take blows. And A special feet will allow me to sub my intelleligenc mod for my wisdom too so i can lower that a bit also.
Class outlook: Rogue 16/Fighter x2 /Shadow dancer x2
Feats: Keen Intellect (Int mod substituted for wisdom for will saves, sense
motive, spot, heal, and survival.) This is an anscestor feat.
Exotic Weapon "Fullblade" States 2-hands only. Cannot wield in one
hand at -4 penalty.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gear ideas so far- I plan to keep strength as high as i can get it to make the lads light load decent.
A fullblade named after a slain Half-Orc Paladin named "Winston" (2D8) + 6 [Hand & 1/2 of str 18 dmg +6] (8-22 seems a great starting point for a lv 1 rogue and 9-28 if denied dexterity.)
Pistol he's learning to use (1D10 Ranged) Made for him by a gnome from the clockwork realm who taught him alchemy and the craft of bullets at beginers level. ((i thought that was rather clever. Does anyone know the total possibilities of crafting ones ammo types? and DC?))
Thieves Tools (with signed papers stating legality for use only by Xteven Evermore (the characters name as of 20 seconds ago.
) under the kings magistrate.) Chain Mail seems respectable at -2 penalty.. Still leaves great mobility and skill while providing means of safety. I really hate it when rogues cannot swim.
A line of leather the dangles small knives side ways. (daggers).
Pouch of amunition types (pistol) Spray,Single,sneezing,blessed water pellet,whatever..
A buckler shaped like something i have not cme up with yet.
And of course a cloak with his adopted familes coat of arms.
I'm far from done and i wold like a lot of feed back before i start and cannot change a thing. Min-max.. but not to be too cheesy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Im looking into developement towards: And have a few questions considering these things below if you will all help me understand and answer:
Hide in plain sight + Darkvision: makes a happy human rogue.
Darkstalker: Blind sight, Tremor sense, and the like.. no longer a problem. Beholders caught flat footed are considered Flanked.
Deft Strike + flat footed = Base AC 10 + or - size mod.. A wicked surprise for even the most armored foes with a clear spot check.
Pirecing Shot
(Does the sneak attack count against all in a straight line within 30 feet if surprise round?)
Leaping Charge: power attack multiplied by 3 for every -1 accuracy dropped.
(A leaping charge out of the shadows is a possibility. But whats the Diff on move silently? Feet are off ground. great for starting off the fray within a crowd or populated place.)
Arterial Strike: the bleed is a must.
Spring Attack (without it id be screwed for hit and run.)
Perhaps a trained Huming bird messenger pet he uses to send messages to the other side of town and flank opponents? The AC to hit a diminuative bird is sleek and provides a considerable advantage against enemy rogues..
Can anyone reference me the Feat that allows me to bullrush an opponent out of place with a charge as a free action and take his space. Maybe the Knockdown with 10 dmg or more skill.. for impact and a clear hit and run?
If i can streamline this moreso but lack detail do tell me. Dont hold back. I personaly think this is rediculous at some points. But im gonna try it.
The DM smacks me with the character stat make up of
13,13,6,16,15,10 ..a 6. hmm.
Hmm.. Str 18, Dex 18,Con 6, Int 18, Wis 3 keen intellect make up?, cha 10..?
Maybe Str 16, dex 16, Con 6, Int 18, Wis 7, Cha 10..? Feedback?
Normally "shifting" means that you can rearrange the order of the stats, not redistribute the stat points. I'd make sure he really meant the latter.
If you are going to be using a fullblade, you are going to be in melee. Being in melee and having poor HP = bad idea. Ergo, putting a mere 6 in CON will get you killed really fast.
As a first level rogue, you'd only have 4 HP. At level 20, you will have an average of 36.5 HP. Just take a look at how much damage the creatures of that CR range do and you'll see that you won't have much fun. As a first level rogue, you'd only have 4 HP.
Given your concept, your stat priorities should probably be STR > CON > INT > DEX > CHA > WIS. Consider switching STR and CON if you want to be more hardy (non-spring-attack approach).
Class outlook: Rogue 16/Fighter x2 /Shadow dancer x2
The second shadowdancer level is not gonig to give you much - you already have evasion from your rogue levels. Ergo, trade your rogue's evasion away for an alternate class feature:
> Spell Reflection (CM, p 35): Lose evasion, gain the ability to reflect spells targeted at you that miss.
Fullblade is not worth it. The damage is marginally better than the greatsword, it costs you a precious feat and you are unlikely to find one while adventuring. Plus, it looks laughable. Just use a greatsword and describe it as being "very big"
A fullblade named after a slain Half-Orc Paladin named "Winston" (2D8) + 6 [Hand & 1/2 of str 18 dmg +6] (8-22 seems a great starting point for a lv 1 rogue and 9-28 if denied dexterity.)
It is, but as a first level rogue you don't qualify for EWP:Fullblade (need BAB 1+). Since it is a very bad idea to take fighter as your fist level (loose 24 skill points and be restricted to a terrible skill list for a mere +2 HP on average once you get past level 1), drop the fullblade.
Note that the average damage when using a greatsword is only two points less. Since your SA is going to do most of your damage after a certain point (level 5+) anyway, it's really not worth it.
Pistol he's learning to use (1D10 Ranged) Made for him by a gnome from the clockwork realm who taught him alchemy and the craft of bullets at beginers level. ((i thought that was rather clever. Does anyone know the total possibilities of crafting ones ammo types? and DC?))
Pistol would work better with a one-handed weapon, so he wouldn't have to switch between them in combat.
Chain Mail seems respectable at -2 penalty.. Still leaves great mobility and skill while providing means of safety. I really hate it when rogues cannot swim.
That's a chain shirt, not chain mail.
Pouch of amunition types (pistol) Spray,Single,sneezing,blessed water pellet,whatever..
Those don't exist - double check with the DM if he is going to make something like that up for you.
Pirecing Shot
(Does the sneak attack count against all in a straight line within 30 feet if surprise round?)
Piercing Shot is not an official D&D feat, so check the description. Simple rule: if you make an attack roll, you can get SA as long as the requirements (denied dex, flanking, etc.) are met. If you hit multiple targets without the need to roll to-hit individually, you don't.
Spring Attack (without it id be screwed for hit and run.)
Just note that Spring Attack is rather feat-intensive (prerequisites) and restricts you to a single attack per turn.
For good measure: Read the Rogue Handbook.
I also think that the DM means you can rearrange your stats but you need to keep the numbers as what they are. if you have Lords of Madness, ask your DM if you can become a Necropolitian or some other undead to make that 6 disappear.
Do you have an online reference? I'm not sure if it would fly. Does it present a physical altercation such as horrid undead smell, appearance, Ect?
They are rogue class types that you can start with permission right?
never really used them.
And what do you think about the use of
-------------------------------------------------------
Keen eared scout
Deadly accuracy
and its actually pronounced Penetrating shot (I said it wrong)
:O I fear when i bring up the crafting my own amunition type I'm going to be hit with the "you must have a master crafter feat to make those kind of quality shots, its only fair." speech.
I"m typing in a hurry gotta run.
Having a low wisdom even with Keen Intellect will not prevent me a negative to my listen score.But im sure my skill points will allow me a counter balance it out. And a skill focus if im going for Keen scout all the better.And thanks Tytalus & Iamwardicus for all your imput. Do you have a hotline I can call in case something goes wrong in game while im playing. *LOL* Then I can call a time out and make the call. Outside game i can explain to the DM I can justify the call because you both are palying NPC's the character knows and I have to figure out what lunch was prepared for the character in his travel pack and what he outlined lessons where in the parchments since your also the NPC's of professors at the schools of sorcery,stealth, might, and Tactics at the left end of the castles tower in the east corner. Yeah.. thats why. :D
In one of my campaigns a player plays an incredibly cool character who have some of the same flavour.
In mechanical terms she is a: Barbarian1/Fighter5 who utilize the sneak attack fighter (UA), whirling frenzy (UA), lion totem barbarian (UA) and hit and run tactics (Drow of the underdark). She used a greataxe, but there is nothing wrong with using a fullblade to the same ends
Even without a single feat she is a formidable foe, and when she also use power attack, things get crazy.
Needless to say, this character is a pure combat machine, but her above average intelligence helps flesh out the rest of the characters abilities (skills).
As a bi-note, I also played a gnome rogue with monkeygrip and a halberd to hillarious effect.
It's crazy sometimes. But I dont just want some cookie cutter that I looked up. Variation keeps things fun.
And I like fun. 504 feats.. your a mad man. :D thats almost as bad as the Kobald using diety feats at lv 12. with 400 of each attribute. Damn serpant kind feats. crazy. And I adore The Barbarian/fighter It's a combat machine.
The DM is alowing us to allocate point be point.. I have a feeling he's being nice. Or hes setting us up to die horridly against a few things.
Well I wont go so easily.
So how does this sound?
Drop trap finding for Penetrating Strike (1/2 dmg against SA immune)
Evasion for Spell Reflection (since I get it back anyway with ShadowDancer)
Planer Rogue Additions & Reductions:
Knowledge (the Planes)
6th Lv (Breach Sense) Replaces special ability
10th Lv ( Slip the Bonds: Ethereal Once per day) Replaces special ability
16th (Blink) Replaces Special ability
Xteven Evermore,
Class: Roguex16/Fighterx2/ShadowDancer x2
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Rogue +0 (R.Feat
Keen Intellect (B.FeatCombat Expertise SA +1d62. Fighter +1 (Fighter Feat
Combat Reflexes3. Rogue +2 (Bonus Feat
Will not spend until Lv. 4 (Quicker than the Eye)4. Figher +3 (Fighter Feat
Dodge Attribute +1 (Dex) 5. Rogue +4 SA +2d6
6. Rogue +5 (Bonus Feat: Mobility)
7. Rogue +5 SA +3d6
8. Shadow Dancer +5 (Special
Hide In Plain Sight9. Shadow Dancer +6/1 (B.Feat
Deft Strike (Special
Darkvision, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge10.Rogue +6/1
Standard set Attributes Str 14, Dex 18, Con 10,Int 18, Wis 3, Cha 10
Attribute setting for an undead if i get clearance to play:
Str: 18, Dex 18, Con -(undead have none Con 3), Int 18, Wis 3, Cha 13
If undead I was debating complicating the story some and drawing the players into something they will grow to hope they hadnt come into if DM approves.. That hes actually about 400 years old and has been banished from his realm by something horrible and cannot rest until he's banished an insidious enemy i havnt thought of yet. Then when hes done his ending will be turning to ash and his soul released. A hapy tear jerker type ending. If I can portay his hopeful personality correctly. And that his home (castle whatever on the plane of majesty er something) was destroyed by this enemy and his or her or its forces. This would make him rather mysterious. And starting the game by being summoned to the realm by someone for the first time in 383 years..
By lv 7 a straight rogue has +4D6 to sneak attack.. so i wont be far behind.
I'll make his crafting of Winston a character goal. So he will start with a great sword instead. After Lv 10 he will craft such a weapon optimizing dmg potential and have the feat. Will fit in perfectly with the his hide in plain site moves and Darkstalker Feat.
Darkstalker-Blind sight? Is that so?
Power Attack- Against an opponent with Base 10 AC flatfooted?
Award winning
Arterial Strike- Put pressure on oponents while they are panicing wondering where i am. And running out of time.. Cause if they stop to heal or potion.. Attack of opportunity. This should giv negatives to their moral saves.. for panic.
If I do reach epics. I'll focus more on my Gun and not just its amunition crafting posibilities. Especially Ranged Disarm.. And Mighty leap.. If i start with strength 18.. i will reach 21 with ease..
Quicker than the eye seems sound. how would it work in game mechanics though?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-Start of Round Standing in front of enemy and situation is too bright and cannot hide No shadows within 10 feet.-
-Quicker than the eye is used- a Bluff check is made against the opponent and all who may be watching.
-Partial Action Gained by feat against opponent alows me to make a Deft strike feat check to see a Hole in the defense of opponent and if he is flat footed by my previous action he doed not gain an attack of oportunity against me. Also his armor bonuses are gone (natural, armor, enchanted armor etc) for purposes of my next strike.
-Normal action is an attack against oponent. If the Opponent failed his check against my bluff my Fullblade slipped his notice as i distracted and he is Sneak Attacked with no armor class.. and no Dexterity bonus.. Also if he had combat experitse up its now dropped because he is flat footed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-The Vanishing.
Attack from Stalking having Used deft strike to decrease AC to nothing.. Quicker than the eye for a partial action whether the opponent failed the DC bluff or not matters little because this is the surprise round.
Use normal action to vanish from sight.. To repeat and rinse?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I need a Coat of Arms. I was thinking 2 blink dogs facing each other.
Any thoughts?
maybe tweaks.. better ways to aproach my offensive. Tactics. Please post. Even if its just to tell me I suck. Explain why. So i know why my idea sucked. And can correct it. Thanks Guys AND Girls for all your imput. I'm off to the drawing board.. Trying to get my scanner up or send my picture of this character in. Cause i think its a good portrayal.Power Attack- Against an opponent with Base 10 AC flatfooted?
Award winning
Arterial Strike- Put pressure on oponents while they are panicing wondering where i am. And running out of time.. Cause if they stop to heal or potion.. Attack of opportunity. This should giv negatives to their moral saves.. for panic.
If I do reach epics. I'll focus more on my Gun and not just its amunition crafting posibilities. Especially Ranged Disarm.. And Mighty leap.. If i start with strength 18.. i will reach 21 with ease..
Quicker than the eye seems sound. how would it work in game mechanics though?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-Start of Round Standing in front of enemy and situation is too bright and cannot hide No shadows within 10 feet.-
-Quicker than the eye is used- a Bluff check is made against the opponent and all who may be watching.
-Partial Action Gained by feat against opponent alows me to make a Deft strike feat check to see a Hole in the defense of opponent and if he is flat footed by my previous action he doed not gain an attack of oportunity against me. Also his armor bonuses are gone (natural, armor, enchanted armor etc) for purposes of my next strike.
-Normal action is an attack against oponent. If the Opponent failed his check against my bluff my Fullblade slipped his notice as i distracted and he is Sneak Attacked with no armor class.. and no Dexterity bonus.. Also if he had combat experitse up its now dropped because he is flat footed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-The Vanishing.
Attack from Stalking having Used deft strike to decrease AC to nothing.. Quicker than the eye for a partial action whether the opponent failed the DC bluff or not matters little because this is the surprise round.
Use normal action to vanish from sight.. To repeat and rinse?
I think you might prefer becoming a Leaping Pouncing Charger, sort of fighter. Just hire a "Rogue", instead.
Feats:
Keen Intellect (R.Feat?): Good for survival. You have 3 WIS. This version of the Ancestor feat isn't the same as the other, it seems. Edit: Okay, just read OA 3.5 update. That's really nice! I ought to use this meself.
Level 2 (Fighter): Combat Expertise (B.Feat?): Penalty to attack roll for boost to AC. Good, in conjunction with Deft Strike and catching them flat-footed. Also, not an amazing amount of HPs, so more AC is nice.
Level 3: Quicker than the Eye: (prereqs: Dex 19+) Move action; Bluff vs. spot. Gain partial action. Attack against person who failed denies DEX to AC. Hey, I didn't know about the gaining of the partial action. Max Bluff. Cha 10 or 13 (undead).
Level 4 (Fighter): Dodge: People should know this.
Level 6: Mobility: +4 to AC when provoking AoOs. Prolly going to lead into Spring Attack.
Level 9: Deft Strike: (prereqs: INT 13, Combat Expertise, Spot 10 ranks, sneak attack) Standard action spot vs. ac to ignore armor/natural armor next turn. For ranged, must be within 30 ft. to benefit.
Spring Attack wasn't mentioned. Is it really possible to hold off on spending a feat? This can be done with attaining the next level, yes?
The fact that you took Fighter levels boosts BAB to take further advantage of Combat Expertise is good!
If you need more feats, you can also dip into the "Expert" generic NPC class.
I think the main worries are heavy damage surprise-rounds.
Edit 2: Heck, that Deft Strike + Quicker than the Eye combo is so dang ACE! I just read an old thread mentioning that you might be able to apply Quick Reconnoiter to Deft Strike to do it as a free action!
Edit 3: Bleh.
The magical weapon that talks and is your friend. I'll peak into that. Wouls the Anscestral weapon feat from book of exalted deeds blend into this to make it nearly no effort at all? And grow with you. Makes me wonder. ^-^ Hey do you think I can get the personality of Winston the slain half-orc paladin in the fullblade if i go by exalted means. It's possible. :D I'll run it by the DM if its sound. "Winston" the +6 Vorpal Fullblade of beheading sounds just nasty.
NiteCype Well you might as well use 5 ranks in a profession that has something to do with stealth.. Like Profession: Stalker, scout, or Burglar, etc. Justifying you another +2 bonus. Wouldnt that be cenergy bonus. So i dont think it would stack if you already had one. Skills are funny sometimes.
I'll definately get my paws on a good cloak.. prefereably the one I read in your article. ;) Hey.. do you thinki can fudge the enemies spot check against my deft strike & re-hide.. Since distractions in D&D can give a circumstance bonus of +2 or more DC for distraction.. Cause if i tossed some flint between the opponents legs before i dropped out of cloak (hide in plain site) it would present a distraction for the round.
I really want Keen-Eared scout. But im not willing to drop Darkstalker.. I want both terribly. Making others pay for my unbelievably high senses. And it seems rather amusing to be able to describe what someones doing, what its wearing, what weapons are on them, its race, then smirk and say, "Well he's right there.. *point* He's not very good at this." then turn to him and say " are you?" then shoot him with a shell consistant of no damage.. just residue of blast powder soot and grim. so its revealed. Provided i dont miss due to invisibility penealties. 50%/ 50% chance of miss.. So ill just use the grenade tactic and hit the square its in. So hes automaticly revieled. I dont have to suffer distractin penalties cause he'll neve turn to look at them. Just listen. +5 to pinpoint the invisible is freaken awsome.
My mouth waters to describe everything i can pick up on in the next room.. Gaurds.. and all.. It makes my mouth water. I thinkim gonna drop some things. past lv 10 for it. ooooh.. maybe to make myself more balance i should craft fullblade in epics and use feats to make it come alive.
Craven+ Power attack used to be my goal. But this one is no where near a coward. But i can always say he's afraid because his mentor said a true master of the shadows is flawless and he fears being short of perfection. Since the lessons in his profession can easily be his last. So he suffers the-2.
The over amassing of damage is stunning though.. I do want to wipe out all i SA completely with no strings.
Darnit all these awsome things.. Does anyone know how i can amass hide in plain side without using shadow dancer or a magical item.. so i can free up 3 feats and 2 levels for more SA? would help majorly for completely stomping enemy rogues, armor tanks, and make life a living hell for casters and even the SA immune cannot tempt my wrath without consequence.. If i can get those feats freed up i will have good early lv options like an exalted feat that allows my D6 SA to become D8's..
Blessed be that damage!!Profession: Stalker
Paha!
he's afraid because his mentor said a true master of the shadows is flawless and he fears being short of perfection.
Core Knee.
If you need more feats, you can also dip into the "Expert" generic NPC class.
For HiPS early, there's the Dark template (LoM).
The over amassing of damage is stunning though.. I do want to wipe out all i SA completely with no strings.
Tell me if you DO stomp everything easily. I would like to know.
I'll definately get my paws on a good cloak.. prefereably the one I read in your article. ;)
Cloak of Deception is a maneuver. Swordsage 2.
Paha!.
;) oh you know you love it..
Core Knee..
of Core Knee.For HiPS early, there's the Dark template (LoM)..
Do you have a link so i can be lazy.
Tell me if you DO stomp everything easily. I would like to know..
I'll problably get caught by one of the old DM one two tricks.. like the timed dungeon that floods after you open the 3rd door and the other 2 you came through seal. And you have a certain amount of time to figure out the challenges and make it past the horrid monsters there in or drown. Ontop of that the water lv. Makes your hide more like playing tickle me Elmo all by your self. So stealth is a thing you will have to deal without. Aka.. to rogues.. SCREWED.
The chamber of portals.. where the rooms can only be traveled by portal doors.. some actually have to be slid by lever control to one place or another in order to aligned a new location in another room.
But they dont tell you some may cross two dimensional pockets when activated in wrong sequence and certain failed knowledge checks..
Or my personal favorite. THE curtain covered door.. Its perfectly normal.. until the dummy moves the curtain and finds by parting the curtain he's allowed a small wind pass through the hall..
He and the party will think its alright.. But its far from alright.. Cause they've just allowed a seemless poison that effortlessly fell from the curtain he just moved to drift through the ranks of the entire party. A poison crafters dream.. Scentless, tasteless, and merely dried to a dust.. No one ever cared to bring an anti venom of any sort.. or even memorize a slow poison spell.. the darn cleric had NO type of poison ailments memorized and only heal, harm and protection from evil touches. The person who actually almost made it to the 3rd room was the druid. And she died at the stairs.
I was disappointed that game.. Cause I asked them if they wanted more difficulty since they are expereienced players.. And gain more xp for completed quests and they said yes. Taking my words lightly. Never take a DM's words lightly.
Sorry. Got carried away.. I like to talk about old games Ran or played in.
Cloak of Deception is a maneuver. Swordsage 2.
KEwl!!
poison
Sounds more like a virus the adventurers weren't immune to. Ending with a preposition.
Rogue's checklist: Blindfold of True Darkness, ear plugs (combined with telepathy to obviate the need for verbal communication), and now, bottle of air/some sort of gas mask/breathing filter.
Maybe usage of the Telthor template to avoid needing to breathe?
So, you deus ex machinaed yourself up a new poison? I think there are set poisons so such a TPK wouldn't happen.
Re: water: Can't hide in water?
Sounds more like a virus the adventurers weren't immune to. Ending with a preposition.
Rogue's checklist: Blindfold of True Darkness, ear plugs (combined with telepathy to obviate the need for verbal communication), and now, bottle of air/some sort of gas mask/breathing filter.
Maybe usage of the Telthor template to avoid needing to breathe?
So, you deus ex machinaed yourself up a new poison? I think there are set poisons so such a TPK wouldn't happen.
Re: water: Can't hide in water?
I like purple worm poison.
people says its lame. I think its rather splended. Whoops off topic. Nice checklist. Well i think im done with this post. I learned alot and got soem great feedback. now onto the personality type.