Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 squanderdalfast Jul 13, 2010 3:44:36	Alright, I'm rolling up a character for a campaign with the following rules: 1. Roll 3d6 six times and note the results. 2. If your total is 57 or less, cross out all numbers and start-over. 3. If your total is 58 or higher, assign each number to one of the following: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma. 4. After a few weeks on the road, your abilities will start to reflect this lifestyle change. But at the moment, you're still the common folk. My rolled stats 17 14 13 13 12 10 ============================ PERMITTED RACES (generic D&D equivalent in parenthesis) THE BEFELLAHN FAMILY - Befellahn (Mountain Dwarves) = 0 fate points -- Aton (Deep Dwarves) = 1 fate point -- Bendrin (Hill Dwarves) = 0 fate points -- Daemin (Badlands Dwarves) = 2 fate points -- Durgan (Gray Dwarves / Duergar) = 2 fate points -- Orin (Dream Dwarves) = 2 fate points - Kantrin (Rock Gnomes) = 0 fate points -- Ketorin (Forest Gnomes) = 2 fate points -- Nevin (Svirfneblin) = 3 fate points -- Ovimit (Whisper Gnomes) = 2 fate points -- Zimbilic (Chaos Gnomes) = 2 fate points - Shae (None or Halflings) = 0 fate points -- Asme (~Tallfellows) = 1 fate points -- Fimi (~Deep Halflings) = 1 fate points THE ESTILIAN FAMILY - Devin (Dark Elves / Drow) = 2 fate points - Eavelin (Wood Elves / Sylvan) = 2 fate points - Grugan (Wild Elves) = 1 fate point - Killoren (Killoren) = 3 fate points - Phaeruni (High Elves) = 1 fate point - Ultrisi (Painted Elves) = 2 fate points THE KADORN FAMILY - Dargoti (None or Humans) = -1 fate points - Dibli (None or Humans) = -1 fate points - Dosseni (Skulk) = 2 fate points - Galdoni (None or Humans) = -1 fate points - Underfolk (Underfolk) = 2 fate points THE KRAG FAMILY - Anzenol (Gnoll) = 2 fate points - Anzork (Orc) = 1 fate point -- Anzorakim (Sharakim) = 2 fate points -- Anzrelork (Scab Orcs) = 2 fate points - Dorkobold (Kobold) = 0 fate points - Dorkuli (Lizardman) = 2 fate points - Kragoblin (Goblin) = 0 fate points -- Krabuka (Bhuka) = 2 fate points -- Kragoboblin (Hobgoblin) = 1 fate point -- Kragobubin (Bugbear) = 3 fate points THE TORORIAN FAMILY - Senarin (None or Human) = -1 fate points - Tororian (None or Human) = -1 fate points - Westvalen (None or Human) = -1 fate points HYBRID RACES - Intrafamily Hybrid = Greater of parents' values (but always at least 1) - Interfamily Hybrid = Sum of parents' values (but always at least 2) ============================ PERMITTED CLASSES - Adept = 2 fate points - Aristocrat* = 3 fate points - Commoner = -1 fate points - Expert = 3 fate points - Warrior = 2 fate points * Aristocrats can only be 1) Senarin, 2) Tororian, 3) Westvalen, 4) Estilian, or 5) Hybrids of these four races. I have 5-8 Fate Points (secret DM number to be used as karma, surviving crazy stuff secret bonus pool) and the following stats: 17, 14, 13, 12, 12, 10 We can pick another class at LV 2 (possibly unlimited, but probably with DM permission) and the campaign is ostensibly a "roleplaying sandbox" but considering the intricate character creation, and the nature of the first session, I am somewhat skeptical. My Race: Ultrisi (this cost me 2 fate) +1 Str, +2 Dex, +Con, -2 Int, -1 Wis, -1 Cha Base speed: 30' Low Light Vision: The Ultrisi can see twice as far as Westvalens in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar poor illumination.  She can distinguish color and detail under these circumstances. +2 racial bonus on Survival Checks ULTRISI certainly do exist, but for all that, their mention attracts a skeptical shrug in the furthest reaches of the North.  The "Cannibal People of the Desert" are in fact an offshoot of the Grugan Estilians, and they have never been formally associated with the Phaerun Empire, or any other nation for that matter.  They dwell in the arid undefined border between the Wastelands and Dibla.  The Ultrisi are about 6' and lean but muscular, with brown hair, a dark complexion, and dark eyes.  Like all Estilians, they live through the end of their sexual maturity and die at the age of about 250, although many do not live this long due to the severity of their lifestyle. My Class:  ADEPT Hit Die: d6. The adept’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Survival (Wis).  Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier. ====== (this might be tl;dr) ====== My plan for my character, David's, background. I was an insane kid growing up, murdered people insane, lived a life of chaotic evil pleasure in the dessert. My father was a well respected, battle scarred, mild-histrionic who decided I needed to be taught a life lesson in humility, personal loss, and defeat; only thus would I learn the long view perspective of the Estilians. As part of this I was sent, penniless, to travel amongst the more civilized cultures to shock my system. To show me the harsh racist nature of the other races and to prove to me that it's camaraderie and  I didn't head straight out on my task, rather I wandered the desert and grew to really admire my people, their persistent desert life, and the way they handled themselves. Surviving on cunning and brutal abandon, I'd do well. But eventually, any enclave I tried to stay at too long, would figure out who I was, why I was traveling and fearing my father's wrath kick me out. Once I reached what's known as the wastelands, a rural farming area, I started to hop from farm to farm as a hand. Until finally I fell in league with an ex paladin, who took me on full time for years. He showed me a kindness I'd not known before and one, being an impressionable youth, I fell for. He worked me hard during the day, sent me off on tasks, the occasional quest to help neighbors, and worked the good angle. Instilled in me the idea that paladin's are a born people. He filled me with books and promised to instill in me a love for higher learning. Alas, his training/tutelage was cut short, a dark paladin one he'd crossed paths with long ago, one who'd not given up the ghost of their grudge, tracked him down and destroyed his farm. Strung him up and brutally killed him. The dark paladin seemed to sense something in me, and I was the only one left alive. This leaves me/David in a quandary as what to do next. My character's arch is that he's only recently resolved to being lawful, and only lawful in that he now feels a dedicated purpose in life: To atone for the paladin's sins by vanquishing his nemesis, and for david to then take up that dark paladin's place. Once David's defeated the dark paladin and become one fully realized himself, he will head back with an army to defeat his father, create a full fledged kingdom out of the Ultrisi, and push against the other empires.  But as of now, he knows he's weak, he must seek out friends who will help him reach these goals, train and grow strong.  ==== I don't know how long it will take me to find a dark paladin to train me. The DM hinted it wouldn't be at level 2. So would it be best to stay at adept until I can push forward with a dark paladin, or should I train the first thing I can to get out of the npc class and retrain again at the earliest?  Given the above arch, how do I max this character?  I would love a full rundown on where to place my skill points, my #s and all that. What feats to take in what order? I like role playing but figuring out what stat to put where isn't my cup of tea, so all help in that department is appreciated. (Also, I've never really played D&D before.)   Thanks. My understanding is that the rest of the party is, a commoner/bard,   an expert/alchemist (tinkerer) an aristocrat/ranger an aristocrat/cleric
#2 squanderdalfast Jul 13, 2010 15:57:38	Should I post this question somewhere else?  I've never really played d&d before.
#3 urpriest Jul 13, 2010 16:48:47	It's a fine place to put it, though you might also try the 3.5 General Forum, since they'd be less concerned with full optimization. One thing that might make people hesitant to post is that you've got a lot of houserules there, and it's tricky to apply usual optimization advice in that kind of situation. For one, your character race is poorly designed, ability boosts and penalties from race should always be in even steps. Given what you're given, though... What, mechanically, are your goals with this character? Melee combat? Spellcasting? How do you want this guy to fight?
#4 Maat_Mons Jul 13, 2010 23:18:19	You mention retraining. Are you expecting to be able to trade all your adept levels for something else later? You said you were hoping to be trained by a dark paladin. If you don't intend to be lawful good, here are some paladin variants. One option for becoming a paladin at later levels is prestige paladin. Some other classes with similar effects are hospitaler (from Complete Warrior), ordained champion (from Complete Champion), and ruby knight vindicator (from Tome of Battle). If you can retrain adept to a class that eventually gets 9th level divine spells and later take one of those classes, that would be best. If you plan to get divine grace (the paladin's ability to add charisma to saves) and you don't plan to directly attack with your spells, you might want to consider the feat dynamic priest (from Dragonlance: Legend of the Twins). It allows you to use charisma to determine the maximum level of spell you can cast and your bonus spells instead of wisdom (or whatever the class normally uses) for one selected divine casting class. The only thing you would still use wisdom for when casting spells would be determining save DCs, which only matters if you use your spells for direct attacks. This allows you to ignore wisdom and focus on charisma, giving you better saves. You state your rolled ability score twice. The first time your highest ability is 17. The second it is 16.
#5 squanderdalfast Jul 15, 2010 14:18:27	Thanks guys. 17 is the correct number.  I plan on being lawful evil. And the divine grace/dynamic priest route sounds good. So I would be mostly a meele fighter. I seem to be the only tough, in our group.  So given that stuff can you tell me where to place skills and stuff like that. I'm playing at 7 tonight in 5 hours. I do not care about being totally optimized so much as just wanting to have the stuff written down, I'm mostly interested in the role playing aspect.  But at the same time, if I can get expert advice on where to place skills and how much to spend where, I'll take it. Thanks again.
#6 Maat_Mons Jul 15, 2010 19:00:56	Sorry I couldn't get back to you on this sooner. Concentration is nice for casters. The DC to cast a spell in melee without provoking an attack of opportunity goes up at most 1 every 2 levels (every 4 levels for adept, and your modifier will increase by 1 every level if you keep putting ranks into it. So, you will initially have a very difficult time casting in combat, but it will later become trivial. Heal can be worthwhile at low levels. Eventually, you can afford to use magic for everything heal covers. Knowledge (religion) represents the sort of things most divine casters would take the time to learn. Spellcraft lets you identify magic effects. I'd put some ranks in concentration since you'll probably eventually want to cast a spell in melee. Other than that, you can pretty much go with whatever suits the character. I have been informed that there is a feat called serenity, originally published in Dragon Magazine #306 and republished in Dragon Compendium, that allows you to use wisdom instead of charisma for divine grace, lay on hands, smite evil, and turn undead. Overall, it's a better choice than dynamic priest if you have access to it.
#7 rydi123 Jul 15, 2010 21:14:16	Well, it's a bit late for me to offer advice, but perhaps after the first session you'll have a better grasp on things and will be able to ask a bit more detailed questions, and be able to give some more info about the houserules in play, etc.  Without details, it's hard to work on stuff.
#8 squanderdalfast Jul 16, 2010 17:04:49	I have been informed that there is a feat called serenity, originally published in Dragon Magazine #306 and republished in Dragon Compendium, that allows you to use wisdom instead of charisma for divine grace, lay on hands, smite evil, and turn undead. Overall, it's a better choice than dynamic priest if you have access to it. I don't understand why that is better? I wrote down dynamic priest on my character sheet, but I could probably change stuff around with only a little cajoling. Here is what I set up in the end, though, we didn't do much the first session so I can probably tweak upon request. (Also, seeing my stuff I rolled better than I thought I did.) 14+2 = Str  16 10+1 = Dex 11 13+1 = Con 14 12-2  = Int  10 13-1 = Wis  12  17-1 = Cha  16 That gave me 8 ranks to spend for adapt class.  Concentration    1 Handle Animal    2 Profession Farm 1  spellcraft            1  Survival              3  Gear (I was given 80gp to spend) backpack  Bedroll Holy water Dog Guard Explorer outfit  tent 2x dagger I just read through most of my spell descriptions and I might have to add something like, "bag of components."  Feat Dynamic Priest My understanding of how that works is I can't use it for my current spells if I plan on switching over to a paladin, unless I want to choose the feat twice. So my plan is to have it be a dead feat until I train.   I don't know what kinds of questions you'd like me to ask. I feel like Dynamic Priest will roleplay well with my character, though it's hard to play "charismatic." I hope to get the hang of it.  My starting 0 level spells are: create water, cure M wound, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Guidance, Light, Mending, Purify food&drink, Read Magic, Touch Feeble, Level 1 spells bless, burning hands, the protect spells, the detect spells, cure light wounds I am having trouble reading the chart in the master's guide, page 107 4-2 why does it have 0 for a 4th level adept to cast 2nd level spells per day. Why doesn't it say - like it does everywhere else? I'm looking forward to the familiar, anything you want to recommend about that?  Thanks guys
#9 urpriest Jul 16, 2010 17:11:11	0 and - mean different things. 0 means you don't automatically get spells, but you can get bonus spells. - means you can't get any spells of that level at all.
#10 Balthanon Jul 16, 2010 23:06:59	I don't understand why that is better? I wrote down dynamic priest on my character sheet, but I could probably change stuff around with only a little cajoling. Serenity is better because it leaves your casting stat mono-focused (DC + bonus spells) while still leaving your paladin abilities powered by your casting stat.  If you don't plan on casting spells directly on other characters, it isn't an immense difference though.  If you want to remain charismatic, you can retain the Dynamic Priest feat instead (assuming you are only going to have a single divine class at a time, i.e. adept is being replaced rather than added to-- otherwise it only applies to one of those).
#11 urpriest Jul 16, 2010 23:09:41	Plus, Adepts are Wis-based.
#12 Maat_Mons Jul 16, 2010 23:18:34	I don't understand why that is better? I wrote down dynamic priest on my character sheet, but I could probably change stuff around with only a little cajoling. Dynamic priest and serenity have the same basic effect, making your spells and paladin abilities use the same ability. In addition to the previously mentioned difference in save DCs, there is another difference. With dynamic priest, you add wisdom to will saves (as normal) and get a bonus to will saves equal to your charisma (as part of divine grace). So, with 12 wisdom and 16 charisma, you add +4 to will saves. With serenity, you add wisdom to will saves (as normal) and get a bonus to will saves equal to your wisdom (because divine grace is changed to use wisdom). So, with 16 wisdom and 12 charisma (you would flip the abilities if you went this rout), you add +6 to will saves. Additionally, before you acquire divine grace from paladin, the higher wisdom score you would have if you went with serenity would add +2 to your will save. It's not a huge deal. You'll have a good will save either way. If you like the roleplaying implications of a high charisma score or there's anything based on charisma you want for your character (e.g. the diplomacy skill), then go with dynamic priest. I just read through most of my spell descriptions and I might have to add something like, "bag of components." A spell component pouch costs 5 gp and weighs 2 pounds. You'll also want a wooden holy symbol, which costs 1 gp and has negligible weight. My understanding of how that works is I can't use it for my current spells if I plan on switching over to a paladin, unless I want to choose the feat twice. That depends entirely on whether you take levels in the paladin base class or the paladin prestige class. The paladin base class gives you spells directly. The paladin prestige class improves your spellcasting from a different class. If you use the prestige class, you need to apply dynamic priest to whatever class grants your base spellcasting ability.
#13 urpriest Jul 16, 2010 23:28:17	As for justifying the prestige paladin variant, tell your DM that it's grittier than the normal paladin, and fits his campaign better. It's true, the reason you have stuff like prestige paladin is to fit the idea that people start out in normal classes and then choose paladin and the like as "heroic" classes.
#14 squanderdalfast Jul 19, 2010 14:52:50	Thanks for the explanations. I think I pretty much understand why the other is better, but I think I'm going to stick with the Dynamic Priest roll. And I'm going to maybe try to go one of these routes, that I found on another forum: Fortuitous Tumble – On the round after being struck by an opponent in melee, you may make an opposed Bluff vs. Sense Motive check as a Move Action against the opponent. If successful, you may use an Immediate Action at the start of the opponent’s next round to designate a different creature he/she threatens as the target of his/her next melee attack (even if is the opponent’s ally). Play Dead – As an Immediate Action after taking at least 10 hp of damage from a single hit, you may “play dead” by making a successful Bluff vs. Sense Motive check. If successful, you may later rise without generating an Attack of Opportunity against that foe, who also looses his/her Dexterity bonus to AC against your next attack. Only usable once per encounter. Sneering Glower – On the round after you do at least 1 hp of damage to an opponent, you may make an Intimidate check as a Move Action to inflict a (Charisma modifier) penalty on the opponent’s attack rolls against you for the remainder of the encounter (unless you use this ability on another foe). Creatures that are Mindless or Immune to Fear effects are immune to this ability.
#15 urpriest Jul 19, 2010 15:39:23	Can I play LE and be a prestige paladin?