Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cole_caecus Mar 31, 2009 22:30:03	Ok, this is someones character that they made, level 15. Now he has an AC of 54, and i want to know if what he did is not breaking any rules. I havent found anything, but id like some help from the Char Op gods. The gold we had was 340,000 total. Goliath Regnar of the forest Hair= none Height= 7'8" weight= 320 Beardless Alignement= LN Monk LV 13, fist of the forest 3, STR 26 +8 DEX 22 +6 CON 34 +12 INT 14 +2 WIS 26 +8 CHA 18 +4 HP=8+7+6+7+3+1+7+8+6+7+5+5+10+6+6+6+=290 Spell resistance= 23 Monk's bonus Speed 80 Initiative=6+4=+10 AC=54 10+5(Bracers)+6(Dex)+5(ring Nat armor)+5(Ring protection)+12(Con)+8(wisdom)+3(Monks bonus) Touch=44 F-F=54 (uncanny dodge) Saves Fort=8+3+12+3=26 Relf=8+3+6 +3=20 Will=8+1+9 =18 Attack 12/7/2 Fist +24/+19/+14/+24 4d8+2d6+13 Flurry of blows +24/+24/+24/+19/+14/+24 4d8+2d6+13 Equipment -Bracers of Armour+5 -Amulet of Nat armor +5 -Ring of protection +5 -Vest of health +6 -Gloves of Dex+6 -Periapt of Wisdom+6 -Monk's belt -Ring of ogre of Strength+6 -Greater Magic Fangs +5 permanent -potion belt (10 slots) -Potion fly x1 -Cure light wounds potion x6 -Cure moderate wounds x3 -B.winter -Cloak of resistance +1 -560gold Skill Balance Climb +18 Concentration Craft Diplomacy Escape artist Hide Handle Animal +14 Intimidate Jump Knowledge arcana +10 Knowledge religion +10 Listen +26 Move silently Perform Profession Sense Motive Spot +26 Survival +26 Swim Tumble +24 Feats Snap Kick Superior Unarmed Strike Great fortitude Power attack Weapon focus Fist Improve Initiative Lightning reflexes Special abilities -Fast movement -Feral Trance 2/day -Primal living -Unarmed damage -Uncanny dodge -Scent -Abundant steps -Diamond Body -Slow fall 60 ft -Diamond soul -Greater flurry -Ki strike (lawful) -Improved evasion -Wholeness of body -Purity of body -Ki strike (magic) -Still mind -Fast movement -evasion -Flurry of blows -Unarmed strike Language Common Gol-Kaa Elven Dwarven
#2 Weezel Mar 31, 2009 22:36:20	Seems legit... using monk/FoF can certainly get you a very high AC. Just from a quick look the gear seems within the money limit. Only thing is it's level 16 with a +1LA race, so he's not level 15 as you indicated at the start of the post... Keep in mind that though he has super-high AC, he is missing tons of stuff that all that wealth could have bought - see invisible or tree seeing, flight, energy protection, enhanced stunning fists, teleportation, etc.
#3 volatris Mar 31, 2009 22:44:38	Ability scores seem a little high... Before any racial, level, or gear modifiers he started with: STR 16 (+4 Goliath, +6 item) = 26 DEX 18 (-2 Goliath, +6 item) = 22 CON 23 (+2 Goliath, +6 item, +3 levels 4, 8, 12) = 34 INT 14 = 14 WIS 20 (+6 item) = 26 CHA 18 = 18 That's... ridiculous?
#4 cole_caecus Mar 31, 2009 22:45:14	sorry, meant level 17, hit wrong button. And i know he is missing a lot, but still, 54 AC is crazy. even epic characters would be hard pressed to hit that.
#5 Weezel Mar 31, 2009 22:57:20	sorry, meant level 17, hit wrong button. And i know he is missing a lot, but still, 54 AC is crazy. even epic characters would be hard pressed to hit that. ECL 17 plenty of things will open the combat (they'd be going first since he can't see invisible creatures and LOTS of things at this level at invisible) with Greater Dispel Magic, which is pretty likely to suppress lots of his magic items and remove the Greater Magic Fang (makes it seem like a waste of money eh?). This could potentially drop his AC by 21 (5 natural, 5 deflection, 3 dex, 3 con, 3 wis) or so... maybe more with monk's belt going offline and suchlike. Suddenly he's AC 33 and much less dangerous on the attack as well. By the way, I didn't do the math but you should check if he's including goliath's powerful build in his unarmed damage - the trait doesn't add a size category to unarmed damage ;) *edit - e.g. planatar (CR16) - flying, dispel magic at will, tons of ranged magic attacks. Once dispelled he can't attack the planatar and has no teleporting/flying with which to escape easily.
#6 mister_crowley Mar 31, 2009 23:14:36	sorry, meant level 17, hit wrong button. And i know he is missing a lot, but still, 54 AC is crazy. even epic characters would be hard pressed to hit that. yeah even a cookie cutter ecl 17 wizard could take you out pretty easily with Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Gate in an Elder Gold Dragon, and with his starting gold craft another Gold Dragon Effigy just for fun.
#7 houkama Mar 31, 2009 23:19:46	The monks armor bonus and the bracers are both counted as armor and do not stack. Also what system are using for stats? Starting at 23 must mean you are playing a rediculously high powered campaign.
#8 keithio Mar 31, 2009 23:23:36	It's not crazy, a spellcaster can buff their AC higher than that at a lower level.
#9 cole_caecus Mar 31, 2009 23:34:33	yeah i know a spellcaster can, but he isnt a spellcaster. for a monk, thats hi. And we are using normal 4d6 drop lowest, no one had bothered to check if his rolls were legit. And idk if a spellcaster would hurt him much, his touch and flat footed are both still hi. Thanks for the help so far, if you see anything else lemme know. And id like to see a spellcaster at a lower level with no armor get his ac that hi.
#10 Weezel Mar 31, 2009 23:39:19	yeah i know a spellcaster can, but he isnt a spellcaster. for a monk, thats hi. And we are using normal 4d6 drop lowest, no one had bothered to check if his rolls were legit. Pretty sure you can't roll a 23 on 3d6! He's either very bad at math or he's cheating on the rolls. And id like to see a spellcaster at a lower level with no armor get his ac that hi. Spellcasters can wear armour, especially at that level where wealth isn't as restrictive...
#11 volatris Mar 31, 2009 23:40:04	Looks like he didn't "drop the lowest". Even then, it's a high set of rolls (4d6 averages 1214).
#12 casualgatherer Mar 31, 2009 23:40:40	Ugh. my math took too long. Assuming Level 17, he can have up to 20 ranks in any class skill, but Handle Animal has 8 ranks too many. it also means he is like 26 skill points short or something.
#13 sinfire_titan Mar 31, 2009 23:49:06	yeah i know a spellcaster can, but he isnt a spellcaster. for a monk, thats hi. And we are using normal 4d6 drop lowest, no one had bothered to check if his rolls were legit. And idk if a spellcaster would hurt him much, his touch and flat footed are both still hi. Thanks for the help so far, if you see anything else lemme know. And id like to see a spellcaster at a lower level with no armor get his ac that hi. Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Abjurant Champion 5 can get a base AC of 46+Dex with 5 spells that last for at least 10 minutes apiece. Assuming a Dex of 20 (easy, but not recommended), his AC is 3 points lower than yours and will only get higher as he gains levels.
#14 cole_caecus Mar 31, 2009 23:58:11	Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Abjurant Champion 5 can get a base AC of 46+Dex with 5 spells that last for at least 10 minutes apiece. Assuming a Dex of 20 (easy, but not recommended), his AC is 3 points lower than yours and will only get higher as he gains levels. What spells? Also, i know that a lot of spellcasters can use armor, but the thing is he isnt using any armor. Im not sure what you mean by the skills, he has a 14 in handle animal, not a 20, and he also added his abilities already to the skills.
#15 keithio Apr 01, 2009 0:06:11	What spells? Let's assume alter self into a trogoldyte, to be generous 6 alter self 5 dragonskin 17 greater luminous armor (yes, 17) 9 shield And there's +37 AC from 4 spells. Not including deflection, haste, dex, 10 base AC, a monk's belt or other spells.
#16 Weezel Apr 01, 2009 0:09:40	What spells? Let's assume alter self into a trogoldyte, to be generous 6 alter self 5 dragonskin 17 greater luminous armor (yes, 17) 9 shield And there's +37 AC from 4 spells. Not including deflection, haste, dex, 10 base AC, a monk's belt or other spells. If you add in empower (or just sudden empower the luminous armour for +25) you can get way higher than the monk :D Edit - never mind... guess I should read the feat description properly!
#17 keithio Apr 01, 2009 0:11:16	If you add in empower (or just sudden empower the luminous armour for +25) you can get way higher than the monk :D Lol, remind me to cast maximize on my HP rolls when I level up, too. (Empower only works on variable numeric effects like 10d6, not flat things like +13)
#18 malkavon Apr 01, 2009 0:31:35	The monks armor bonus and the bracers are both counted as armor and do not stack. This is incorrect. The monk (and fist of the forest) AC bonus is untyped, and stacks with everything. As to his stats, has he gained any inherent bonuses from wishes or tomes? He would need a +5 inherent bonus to Con and at least a +2 to Wis to compensate. Other than that, I've seen ability scores that good on a 4d6 drop lowest, but it's rare. Although why he would put an 18 into his Cha is beyond me.
#19 muertog Apr 01, 2009 12:58:41	How is he getting +Con to AC?
#20 idontmuchcareforit Apr 01, 2009 13:15:50	i don't mean to derail this conversation... i'd just like to point out to Volatris that 4d6 averages 14, not 12. a d6 averages 3.5 (1+2+3+4+5+6)/6=3.5
#21 volatris Apr 01, 2009 13:59:08	Corrected above. I actually knew that, even did the simple math 4 * 3.5, and for some reason when my finger typed the "4" in "4d6" it decided not to type the "4" in "14" and type "12" instead, thinking there was already too many fours, I guess.
#22 muertog Apr 01, 2009 14:54:47	That's okay. We four-give you.
#23 zaxter Apr 01, 2009 16:06:20	How is he getting +Con to AC? Fist of the Forest gives con, not wis, to AC.
#24 cole_caecus Apr 01, 2009 16:14:19	Fist of the Forest gives con, not wis, to AC. But is it con instead of or in addition to his wis? He already gets wis and dex to it from being a monk. so would that make him get all 3?
#25 muertog Apr 01, 2009 17:57:20	The Fist of Forest gives Con to AC as a class feature. As it references the Monk ability only as an explaination of the feature, it looks by RAW to stack.
#26 sofawall Apr 01, 2009 21:02:20	Yes. EDIT: Damn, I was trying to be all badass with my one word post, then BAM! Ninja. You know what we need? Not this sickly GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX! forum, not a screwed up login box (that has yet to work for me) but a ninja emoticon. Yeah. Ninja. I dislike how the word gre3n turns into, well, GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX!. Damn April Fools, go away. Forcing me to use 1337-speak...
#27 dr_rocktopus Apr 01, 2009 22:12:40	You know what else we need? We need to sit down and write up our own Errata for ToB.
#28 sofawall Apr 01, 2009 22:17:53	Like what?
#29 keithio Apr 01, 2009 22:47:12	Like what? Making JPM 10/10 casting *Innocent whistling*
#30 SIKBUZ Apr 01, 2009 22:47:21	Yes. EDIT: Damn, I was trying to be all badass with my one word post, then BAM! Ninja. You know what we need? Not this sickly GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX! forum, not a screwed up login box (that has yet to work for me) but a ninja emoticon. Yeah. Ninja. I dislike how the word gre3n turns into, well, GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX!GLEEMAX!. Damn April Fools, go away. Forcing me to use 1337-speak... This is the closest i've found friend..
#31 muertog Apr 01, 2009 23:48:46	Wow. I ninja'ed a 1 word post. ^_^ Spiffy-keen!
#32 reis Apr 02, 2009 9:28:24	Improved Combat expertise+Pearl of Black Doubt can get you some pretty wicked AC totals as well
#33 sofawall Apr 02, 2009 9:35:10	Wow. I ninja'ed a 1 word post. ^_^ Spiffy-keen! You must have Contingent Celerity or something.
#34 dr_rocktopus Apr 02, 2009 9:42:00	you mean contingency hilarity? :cackle: I'm really dumb sometimes.
#35 sofawall Apr 02, 2009 9:49:56	That surely deserves not a , but a EDIT: Dammit, they haven't gotten Cthulu back. Now he's all sunglassesey.
#36 thaliost Apr 02, 2009 15:08:09	As people have already pointed out, there's no error with the build, but you need to double check his ability scores. No surprise. I've seen AC 76 at level 15.