AC Dumpbarian.

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zdorab

Dec 13, 2008 0:54:14
Hey guys, I'm working on a new character (barbarian) and I plan on completely dumping AC on him. What would you guys recommend for it? So far I've got reckless rage, but I don't have much else besides the notion of MAXXXING hp, I'm taking the bear totem supplement (no DR 1hp/level) AND imp toughness (+1 hp per level, effectively raising my con by 2.)

Oh great optimization board, dost though have any advice to offer a lowly casual optimizer?

EDIT:
I remember finding a "Negative AC thread" back awhile ago, does anyone happen to have a link?
A few more things:
What bonuses can be weaned from no armor?
Reckless charge?
#2

surreal

Dec 13, 2008 1:05:00
Starting level? books allowed? party members? Have you checked the barbarian handbook? (located in my handy links)

Dumping AC is typically seen in a charger build using Shock Trooper. Power Attack for full (with as many multipliers you can stack on), dumping the penalty into AC rather than your attack roll.
#3

emansdrawkcab

Dec 13, 2008 1:24:39
LINKY!
#4

jaronk

Dec 13, 2008 1:56:24
Indeed, Orc Barbarian, Lion Totem, with Shock Trooper and Headlong Rush. Heck, make it a Dragonborn Water Orc and your stats will be +4 Str and Con, -2 everything else. Defenses are for the weak!

JaronK
#5

reis

Dec 13, 2008 11:59:12
take some levels of warblade and pick up the tiger claw maneuvers sudden leap and pouncing charge and leaping dragon stance as well as iron heart surge. Take the Leap attack feat and use your tiger claw maneuvers to make your jump check as a swift action, you won't failt he check with leaping dragon stance, and you can incorporate the whole thing into pouncing charge and make a full attack (with power attack dumped into AC) with a 2handed weapon and get like a 3:1 return on power attack. This makes your attacks hurt a lot, but it gets better.

Once you have what you want from warblade start taking levels of frenzied berzerker in order to get (greater)frenzy and improved(and supreme) power attack. Also take the prerequisites to get the feat Combat Brute. Now you can do the same charging full attack as before and instead of getting a 2:1 return on your penalty to AC with power attack you're getting like 5:1 or more, this should be enough damage to kill most stuff you can reach from the endpoint of your charge when you factor in +14 strength bonus from rage and frenzy. If everything in reach isn't dead, and it's still in reach at the beginning of your next turn, you can now make another full attack with PA penalty dumped into AC, and multiply all the damage x3 due to your combat brute feat's momentum swing ability. At level 20 with the right gear you can probably approach or exceed 1000 damage on a single opponent using this tactic in the round following a charge without much effort.

Some other things to consider. There are some other good maneuvers you can pick up from tome of battle that will help a lot. One problem with Combat brute--> momentum swing is a smart opponent will make sure he isn't in your reach by the time your next turn comes around, especially if this isn't the first time you've used the combo in an encounter. If you have the Quicksilver motion manuver (DM 7) you could take a free move action to get back into position before making your momentum swing attacks. You could also delay your initiative and accomplish something similar with Moment of alacrity (DM 6) but you run into the problem of running out of swift actions since you already used sudden leap that round.

The other problem is, your will save is really bad. You can't use the concentration skill while raging or frenzied so you can't use moment of perfect mind (DM1) which is a common way to get around this. You can boost your will save somewhat with items and the like but it will still not be very good, and if you get dominated your party is in a world of hurt. Your allied spellcasters need to help defend you against will save spells by removing their effects very quickly or helping you succeed on your saves/become immune to those spells effects. At high or epic level you can negate many will based effects with a permanent item of mind blank.
#6

CantripN

Dec 13, 2008 16:33:31
BTW, I'd played a Warblade based on this concept. AC was ~14, while damage was huge (...and I didn't even have Shock Trooper - I used Karmic Strike + Stormguard Warrior) and my HP was ~200 at level 10.

It works. Just make sure to have Steadfast Determination.
#7

Endarire

Dec 13, 2008 16:38:27
You could adapt this into a Hood build.
#8

runestar

Dec 13, 2008 20:53:27
Be sure to have some sort of miss chance (eg: displacement). Wall of blades is great as well, for when you just have to avoid a hit.
#9

ninjarabbit

Dec 13, 2008 21:15:51
The agressive trait from Unearthed Arcane/SRD gives you +2 initiative for -1 AC.

The vunerable flaw gets you an extra feat for -1 AC.
#10

reis

Dec 14, 2008 11:00:08
yeah watch out for those touch attacks that have saving throw: none
#11

aelryinth

Dec 14, 2008 16:03:23
yeah watch out for those touch attacks that have saving throw: none

Watch out for creatures with Power Attack and more then one attack!...

==Aelryinth
#12

thegodhead

Dec 14, 2008 16:08:26
Watch out for creatures with Power Attack and more then one attack!...

==Aelryinth

That applies to all creatures.
#13

Krusk

Dec 14, 2008 17:50:20
Watch out for creatures with Power Attack and more then one attack!...

Frenzied berserker is a handy prc for ignoring damage. Unfortunatly it is also one of the ones that many DMs or groups dont allow, because of the whole kill th entire party thing.

Nice progression I found. (unfortunatly mandates Evil alignment)

lion totem barb1/CE paladin 2/fighter 2/Frenzied berserker 10/blackgaurd 2/ hexblade 3


Hits super power as soon as you can prestige into the FB.
Only important stats are con cha and str in that order.
Playable from levels 1 onward as a massive threat to the enemies. (as much as a fighter can be.)
As soon as you hit level 16 though, you become a saves monster, with easily +35 or so to each.

Do the traditional leap attack power attack methods for the nice 6-1 ratio.
The levels of paladin (and later bgaurd and hexblade) make your saves not suck.
Extra rage is another handy feat. (raging helps you keep your str comparable to other fighters, as you will normally have a lower one than them in the early levels and later it cant hurt.)
Cloak of displacement covers your AC (which could be a negative number if your DM doesn't limit it to 0 as the lowest you are allowed to drop it.)

Stratigy, is simple, drop your AC as low as it goes, and charge making a full attack (4 attacks, 5 if hasted) for +120 damage per hit at no attack penalty. ALso make the healers cast lessor vigor on you, so you pop back to 1 or 2 hp each round on your turn so you dont die after your frenzy ends.


*A Note having a lot of HP doesnt mean you can handle getting hit all the time. What helps is not caring if you loose all of that HP. Lots of Hp also doesn't help vs save or die effects, which is where your high saves come in.
#14

reis

Dec 14, 2008 17:58:55
I thought lion totem barbarian gives you pounce but the SRD seems to disagree

Lion Totem Class Features

A barbarian dedicated to the lion totem does not gain the standard fast movement, uncanny dodge, and improved uncanny dodge barbarian class features, and instead gains the following abilities.

* At 1st level, a lion-totem barbarian gains Run as a bonus feat.
* A 2nd-level lion-totem barbarian gains a +2 bonus on Hide checks.
* A 5th-level lion-totem barbarian gains a +2 bonus on damage rolls whenever he charges.

#15

malkavon

Dec 14, 2008 19:18:21
I thought lion totem barbarian gives you pounce but the SRD seems to disagree

The SRD has the UA totem ACFs. Complete Champion has a similar list of ACFs (animal totems) but with different benefits.
#16

reis

Dec 14, 2008 19:23:06
ok, thanks
#17

emansdrawkcab

Dec 15, 2008 0:29:17
LINKY!

Have you seen my previous post? I linked you to the "the Masochist" thread, which I think is the thread you want. Just checking. Here it is again.