Achilles.. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Achilles..

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
croxley_dup
Jul 24, 2009 7:15:16 Has anybody got a build the the famed "Greatest Greek Warrior" ever?

Or does anybody have a build that would suit the way Achilles fought?
#2
Senevri
Jul 24, 2009 7:44:31 The mythological Achilles had a nigh-invulnerable skin, so probably some sort of high-DR template.

The Troy movie version was, (sans ToB) a Rogue/Fighter in core, most likely a Legendary Leader at least, outside core.

With ToB, he's some combination of the base classes - a straight Warblade will pretty much do, even.
#3
thedragonmaster
Jul 24, 2009 8:36:08
The mythological Achilles had a nigh-invulnerable skin...

This. This is all that Achilles ever was besides a great warrior. I guess making him invulnerable against everything except attacks to his heel would be a bit tricky within the rules, as well as unbalanced, so go with Senevri's DR advice and go to town with whatever "great warrior" build you feel like. Allthough you should probably ditch spiked chains, katanas, and crossbows if you want to keep the "feel" of it going.
#4
true_shinken
Jul 24, 2009 8:51:26 Ya know, I always wonder - if Achiles was nigh-invulnerable, why the heck did he wear armor? It's like giving Superman a bulletproof vest.
#5
gilfalas_elaandrin
Jul 24, 2009 10:01:26
Ya know, I always wonder - if Achiles was nigh-invulnerable, why the heck did he wear armor?

He was the greatest greek warrior alive but still a fashion lemming?
#6
fisharewet
Jul 24, 2009 11:23:28 To take the question even farther, why does Ares wear armor?
#7
vglcat
Jul 24, 2009 11:33:01 dude! armor was cooL! also, maybe he wanted to blend in? or something.....
#8
gilfalas_elaandrin
Jul 24, 2009 11:44:38
To take the question even farther, why does Ares wear armor?

So he has some protection from godly weapons? Because he can?

Because all the greek gods were imperfect in many ways and based on human frailties despite their 'godly' power is the one I think is closest.
#9
Grumman
Jul 24, 2009 12:04:23
Ya know, I always wonder - if Achiles was nigh-invulnerable, why the heck did he wear armor? It's like giving Superman a bulletproof vest.

Schmuck bait. Wearing armour gives the impression that whatever is under the armour is vulnerable to damage, thereby tricking his enemies into getting themselves killed fighting in melee against an invulnerable warrior.
#10
true_shinken
Jul 24, 2009 12:10:20
Schmuck bait. Wearing armour gives the impression that whatever is under the armour is vulnerable to damage, thereby tricking his enemies into getting themselves killed fighting in melee against an invulnerable warrior.

Oh, Achilles was pretty clever ^^
#11
blightersbane
Jul 24, 2009 12:18:25 he was so cocky he thought it was his skill at fighting that made him so maybe he thought wearing the armor was necessary...Brad Pitt played it this way, yes?

BB
#12
hand_of_vecna
Jul 24, 2009 12:35:02 I second a warblade build maybe with a little swordsage tossed in at say 5 for lvl 2 manuevers or six for lvl 3 manuevers ten annother at 10 or twelve to cherry pick a higher lvl manuever and get wis to ac in medium armor.

If you start at a higher level then try explaining to your gm that hp's are subjective and ask him to treat all your hp as luck/skill till your actually hurt at 10 or even 0.

Crusader can also work very well at making you seem invulnerable in mass combat with lower cr opponents combat you'll heal yourself as fast as your hurt.
#13
darksamuari
Jul 24, 2009 12:39:59 What about some of the stone dragon techniques that grant DR?
#14
morphling_89
Jul 25, 2009 0:28:21 Hahaha.

This brings me back. I tried to make Achilles once under a made up rules system I played with my friends. Needless to say, he was absolutely broken (this was mostly because I did away with the concept of AC in my version).

He's hard to balance, but I think a fair way to treat him would be to give him a large insight armor bonus (say, +6 to +10) to account for the fact that it's friggin' hard to hit a heel.

This would avoid the DR nonsense. He shouldn't take damage unless he gets hit on the heel.
#15
yin_yang_dgbc
Jul 25, 2009 1:59:13 What many people fail to realize is that Achilles preferred fame and immortality of fame over old age and non-importance. Because of this he wanted to appear more than he was, regardless of him being the son of a king and a water nymph (nerid). So when making the character, give him qualities that however he may be loyal, he wore armor to show that he was just like any other soldier there in the war, besides whatever extraordinary abilities he has. Also, he was extremely fast, able to chase down and hunt down the fastest of creatures even. So make him fast, just not ridiculously fast. He was also very strong, but not godlike in any sort.

So, the qualities you need for an Achilles that is accurate:

speed (maybe 50-70 feet)
strength
has armor, made by Hephaestus, so make it liek a +5, with other abilities, breastplate.

That's about it from my end. I was just throwing in my 2 cents because I know a lot about Greek/Roman mythology and texts.

Have fun.
#16
siranui
Jul 25, 2009 2:48:58 "It's like giving Superman a bulletproof vest."

Superman can bounce bullets of his chest, but ducks when people throw their guns at him...

Most importantly of all: Achilles should be a spear fighter with a large shield. Spears (specifically long spears wielded one handed) were the Greek weapon of choice in later periods and to a large extent earlier on, too. Short-sword (with shield) should be used as the back-up weapon. (Troy is about the first Western film I've seen with a decent spear fight. Because most fight coreographers seem to love kendo and swords, fights in films tends to always end up involving swords)

The armour wore in the film was just hardened leather, as I recall. Historically a bronze breastplate would be the heaviest armour that was ever used by the greeks.

I'd personally go for a light armour build, heavy shield, long spear in one hand with full spec, maybe combat reflexes for 'mook mowing' ...and DR 10/Epic!
#17
alastordracul
Jul 25, 2009 3:30:08 If you're looking high DR there is the feat Roll With It from Savage Species. And as far as the fighting style there is the feat Shield and Pike Style from Dragon 338. Unfortunately you can only use light shields and reach pole arms, but you keep your full shield AC and take no penalties to attack rolls.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 croxley_dup Jul 24, 2009 7:15:16	Has anybody got a build the the famed "Greatest Greek Warrior" ever? Or does anybody have a build that would suit the way Achilles fought?
#2 Senevri Jul 24, 2009 7:44:31	The mythological Achilles had a nigh-invulnerable skin, so probably some sort of high-DR template. The Troy movie version was, (sans ToB) a Rogue/Fighter in core, most likely a Legendary Leader at least, outside core. With ToB, he's some combination of the base classes - a straight Warblade will pretty much do, even.
#3 thedragonmaster Jul 24, 2009 8:36:08	The mythological Achilles had a nigh-invulnerable skin... This. This is all that Achilles ever was besides a great warrior. I guess making him invulnerable against everything except attacks to his heel would be a bit tricky within the rules, as well as unbalanced, so go with Senevri's DR advice and go to town with whatever "great warrior" build you feel like. Allthough you should probably ditch spiked chains, katanas, and crossbows if you want to keep the "feel" of it going.
#4 true_shinken Jul 24, 2009 8:51:26	Ya know, I always wonder - if Achiles was nigh-invulnerable, why the heck did he wear armor? It's like giving Superman a bulletproof vest.
#5 gilfalas_elaandrin Jul 24, 2009 10:01:26	Ya know, I always wonder - if Achiles was nigh-invulnerable, why the heck did he wear armor? He was the greatest greek warrior alive but still a fashion lemming?
#6 fisharewet Jul 24, 2009 11:23:28	To take the question even farther, why does Ares wear armor?
#7 vglcat Jul 24, 2009 11:33:01	dude! armor was cooL! also, maybe he wanted to blend in? or something.....
#8 gilfalas_elaandrin Jul 24, 2009 11:44:38	To take the question even farther, why does Ares wear armor? So he has some protection from godly weapons? Because he can? Because all the greek gods were imperfect in many ways and based on human frailties despite their 'godly' power is the one I think is closest.
#9 Grumman Jul 24, 2009 12:04:23	Ya know, I always wonder - if Achiles was nigh-invulnerable, why the heck did he wear armor? It's like giving Superman a bulletproof vest. Schmuck bait. Wearing armour gives the impression that whatever is under the armour is vulnerable to damage, thereby tricking his enemies into getting themselves killed fighting in melee against an invulnerable warrior.
#10 true_shinken Jul 24, 2009 12:10:20	Schmuck bait. Wearing armour gives the impression that whatever is under the armour is vulnerable to damage, thereby tricking his enemies into getting themselves killed fighting in melee against an invulnerable warrior. Oh, Achilles was pretty clever ^^
#11 blightersbane Jul 24, 2009 12:18:25	he was so cocky he thought it was his skill at fighting that made him so maybe he thought wearing the armor was necessary...Brad Pitt played it this way, yes? BB
#12 hand_of_vecna Jul 24, 2009 12:35:02	I second a warblade build maybe with a little swordsage tossed in at say 5 for lvl 2 manuevers or six for lvl 3 manuevers ten annother at 10 or twelve to cherry pick a higher lvl manuever and get wis to ac in medium armor. If you start at a higher level then try explaining to your gm that hp's are subjective and ask him to treat all your hp as luck/skill till your actually hurt at 10 or even 0. Crusader can also work very well at making you seem invulnerable in mass combat with lower cr opponents combat you'll heal yourself as fast as your hurt.
#13 darksamuari Jul 24, 2009 12:39:59	What about some of the stone dragon techniques that grant DR?
#14 morphling_89 Jul 25, 2009 0:28:21	Hahaha. This brings me back. I tried to make Achilles once under a made up rules system I played with my friends. Needless to say, he was absolutely broken (this was mostly because I did away with the concept of AC in my version). He's hard to balance, but I think a fair way to treat him would be to give him a large insight armor bonus (say, +6 to +10) to account for the fact that it's friggin' hard to hit a heel. This would avoid the DR nonsense. He shouldn't take damage unless he gets hit on the heel.
#15 yin_yang_dgbc Jul 25, 2009 1:59:13	What many people fail to realize is that Achilles preferred fame and immortality of fame over old age and non-importance. Because of this he wanted to appear more than he was, regardless of him being the son of a king and a water nymph (nerid). So when making the character, give him qualities that however he may be loyal, he wore armor to show that he was just like any other soldier there in the war, besides whatever extraordinary abilities he has. Also, he was extremely fast, able to chase down and hunt down the fastest of creatures even. So make him fast, just not ridiculously fast. He was also very strong, but not godlike in any sort. So, the qualities you need for an Achilles that is accurate: speed (maybe 50-70 feet) strength has armor, made by Hephaestus, so make it liek a +5, with other abilities, breastplate. That's about it from my end. I was just throwing in my 2 cents because I know a lot about Greek/Roman mythology and texts. Have fun.
#16 siranui Jul 25, 2009 2:48:58	"It's like giving Superman a bulletproof vest." Superman can bounce bullets of his chest, but ducks when people throw their guns at him... Most importantly of all: Achilles should be a spear fighter with a large shield. Spears (specifically long spears wielded one handed) were the Greek weapon of choice in later periods and to a large extent earlier on, too. Short-sword (with shield) should be used as the back-up weapon. (Troy is about the first Western film I've seen with a decent spear fight. Because most fight coreographers seem to love kendo and swords, fights in films tends to always end up involving swords) The armour wore in the film was just hardened leather, as I recall. Historically a bronze breastplate would be the heaviest armour that was ever used by the greeks. I'd personally go for a light armour build, heavy shield, long spear in one hand with full spec, maybe combat reflexes for 'mook mowing' ...and DR 10/Epic!
#17 alastordracul Jul 25, 2009 3:30:08	If you're looking high DR there is the feat Roll With It from Savage Species. And as far as the fighting style there is the feat Shield and Pike Style from Dragon 338. Unfortunately you can only use light shields and reach pole arms, but you keep your full shield AC and take no penalties to attack rolls.