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Action Character build help

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Kerrus
Apr 28, 2009 19:05:51 I've been accused by a member of my player group of not being 'actiony' enough- which usually translates to 'you don't jump into the dragon's mouth often enough'

So I've decided that for a campaign we have coming up (an exalted, martial heavy campaign) to run an Action Character.

Specifically an archer. My DM's allowing one flaw, and reflavouring of certain feats if needed.

Also, our booklist is as follows: Core, PHBII, CWarrior, Cscoundrel, CChampion, Draconomicon, Tome of Battle (hypothetically), Magic of Incarnum (Also hypothetically), Book of Exalted Deeds, the 3.0 sword and board books, Arms and Equipment Guide, Magic Item Compenium, and Unearthed Arcana. These are the books we have physical access to, and computer based copies won't suffice.

Here's my current build- I'd like some suggestions on ways to improve it. No ability scores, we roll stuff out not point buy, unfortunately.

As a note, we're starting at level 10, so this build only includes that. I've got some ideas for progression after that- aside from continuing on with swashbuckler.

Human Rogue 3/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 5

Lvl 1: Point Blank Shot
Human: Precise Shot
Flaw (Vulnerable: -1 AC): Rapid Shot
Rogue 1: Sneak attack +1d6, Trapfinding
Rogue 2: Evasion
Rogue 3: Sneak Attack +2d6, Trap Sense +1
Lvl 3: Manyshot
Fighter 1: 'Long'bow Sniper
Fighter 2: Deadeye Shot
Swashbuckler 1: Weapon Finesse
Lvl 6: Ancestral Relic
Swashbuckler 2: Grace +1
Swashbuckler 3: Insightful Strike
Swashbuckler 4: -
Lvl 9: Daring Outlaw
Swashbuckler 5: Dodge Bonus +1

BAB: +9/+4

Fort: +7
Refl: +4 (+5 with Grace)
Will: +2
#2
feloniousela
Apr 28, 2009 19:46:33 Illumian w/aeshkrau

Duskblade 3/Fighter 2/Lion Pounce Barbarian 1/Suel Arcanamach 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Suel Arcanamach +3/Spellsword 1/Dragon Disciple 4

Use your feats to make him a charger w/Shock Trooper and Leap Attack, slap on buffs, wraithstrike, jump into dragon's mouth.
#3
Kerrus
Apr 28, 2009 19:49:16 I want to run an archer. That's why he's specced as an archer. I'd thought that'd have been obvious.
#4
SwordDisciple
Apr 28, 2009 20:04:44
I want to run an archer. That's why he's specced as an archer. I'd thought that'd have been obvious.

+1.. Thought that was pretty obvious myself.. But then some people get carried away with Charger builds don't they? But I think he meant so you could jump into the Dragons mouth..

I'll post a build in a moment.. Standard gp for 10th level? Templates?
#5
Kerrus
Apr 28, 2009 20:28:22 Probably standard GP for 10th level. Templates are unlikely, though. Maybe I could swing some- suggestions are welcome, but if it's a big part of the build... not as much.
#6
SwordDisciple
Apr 28, 2009 21:07:37 Elven Archer

1. Ranger: Point Blank Shot, Track (Ranger Bonus), Favoured Enemy
2. Ranger: Rapid Shot (Ranger Bonus)
3. Ranger: Dodge, Endurance (Ranger Bonus)
4. Fighter: Mobility (Fighter Bonus)
5. Fighter: Weapon Focus-Composite Longbow (Fighter Bonus)
6. Pious Templar: Combat Reflexes
7. Pious Templar:
8. Pious Templar: Weapon Specialization- Composite Longbow (Pious Templar Bonus)
9. Shadow Dancer: True Believer (Elhonna)
10. Shadow Dancer:
11. Horizon Walker:
12. Horizon Walker: Woodland Archer
13. Horizon Walker:
14. Horizon Walker:
15. Horizon Walker: Ranged Weapon Mastery
16. Horizon Walker: Shifting
17. Deepwood Sniper:
18. Deepwood Sniper: Able Sniper
19. Fighter:
20. Fighter: Precise Shot(Fighter Bonus)

You have Mettle and Evasion, Hide in Plain Sight, Dimension Door once every 1d4 rounds plus a whole bunch of other great abilities.

If you can get either the Shadow Template (LA+2) or Dark Template (LA+1), but you could go both via starting with Shadow then getting a Collar of Umbral Metamorphisis - you'll be the sneakiest sneaker out there..

If you aren't allowed Relics don't bother with True Believer, but if you can then use the feat to allow access to this:
Arrow, Raptor:
Legend says these arrows (there are reputedly five) gained relic status when Ehlonna used them to slay a great wyrm green dragon that was rampaging through a forest primeval. A raptor arrow is a +3 arrow with a variant of the returning quality. At the beginning of the round after it is fired from a bow, a raptor arrow wrenches itself from whatever it hit (dealing 1d8 points of damage), flies up to 400 feet through the air, and restrings itself in the bow from which it was fired. Unlike most ammunition, raptor arrows are never destroyed when they hit their target.
If a ranger fires a raptor arrow at a favored enemy, the arrow additionally gains the bane quality against that foe.
To use this relic, you must worship Ehlonna and either sacrifi ce a 6th-level divine spell slot or have the True Believer feat. Strong evocation; CL 12th; Sanctify Relic, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, bane bow*, creator must worship
Ehlonna; Price 14,500 gp; Cost 7,273 gp + 580 XP.

Otherwise Exit Wounding/Explosive Arrows are good.. There are plenty of good enchantments for bows. :D

Thanks to Carnivore for the ideas behind this build
#7
Kerrus
Apr 28, 2009 21:38:59 That looks like a really fun class, excepting that we don't have a copy of complete divine, so I can't take Pious Templar.

Raptor Arrows, though, are a definite in. Horizon Walker too, most likely. I'll work up a revised build in a moment.

EDIT: Actually, I do have access to the Pious Templar, via Defenders of the Faith. Go 3.0 sword and board books!

EDIT2: That's actually a good thing- both versions are near identical, but the 3.5 version has True Believer as an entry req.
#8
SwordDisciple
Apr 28, 2009 21:49:14
That looks like a really fun class, excepting that we don't have a copy of complete divine, so I can't take Pious Templar.

Whoops! Sorry about that.. Horizon Walker can be taken earlier in the build.
Edit: And didn't think to check if you have access to Masters of the Wild for Deepwood Sniper? If not then ignore my comments at the bottom of this text

Could possibly go Mythic Exemplar with Sunyartra 2nd level ability: The critical threat range of one weapon you wield increases by 1. This increase stacks with those from other sources, such as the keen weapon property or the Improved Critical feat.

You would have Crit Range 20 normally. Mythic Exemplar will give you 19-20 and then with Deepwood Sniper (x2) it would be 17-20..
#9
Kerrus
Apr 28, 2009 23:29:12 current build:

Elven Archer of Elhonna

1. Ranger: Point Blank Shot, Track (Ranger Bonus), Favoured Enemy
2. Ranger: Rapid Shot (Ranger Bonus)
3. Ranger: Dodge, Endurance (Ranger Bonus)
4. Fighter: Mobility (Fighter Bonus)
5. Fighter: Weapon Focus [Composite Longbow] (Fighter Bonus)
6. 3.0 Templar: Combat Reflexes, Mettle, Weapon Specialization (3.0 Templar Bonus)
7. Shadowdancer: Hide in Plain Sight
8. Shadowdancer: Evasion, Darkvision, Uncanny Dodge
9. Fighter: True Believer [Elhonna]
10. Fighter: Far Shot
11. Deepwood Sniper: Keen Arrows, Range Increment Bonus +10 ft.
12. Deepwood Sniper: Improved Critical, Concealment Reduction 10%, Magic Weapon, Projectile Improved Critical +1 (Crits on 17-20 for x3 damage- our DM lets keen and improved crit and that sort of effect stack)
13-17: Horizon Walker
18-20: Mythic Exemplar maybe?
#10
SwordDisciple
Apr 28, 2009 23:57:49 Mythic Exemplar would make your Crits 16-20.. Not bad really :D

If you get Spring Attack in there maybe Jaunter.. But you don't have access Argh..

Fighter will give you bonus Feat..

You have Unearthed Arcana available so maybe forego the Combat Training (you only get Point Blank in this build) Purchase that Feat if you want it and be a Wildshaping Ranger?
#11
Kerrus
Apr 29, 2009 0:22:36 Maybe. Thinking not- that might be too magicky for our DM.
#12
Kerrus
Apr 29, 2009 0:27:37 EDIT: Misread Horizon Walker- I need six levels of it, not five.

Also, for last two levels, maybe Swordsage?
#13
SwordDisciple
Apr 29, 2009 0:58:06 Yes, definately need 6 levels of Horizon Walker.

Sorry, can't comment on Swordsage - our group thinks it ruins the base classes.. But if it can add to your build then definately go for it :D
#14
Kerrus
Apr 29, 2009 1:43:43 Well, I don't think it's meant for cheese like stacking it with monk or that sort of thing, but two levels of swordsage, with the whole initiator level thing provides access to two pretty nice stances and stuff. Most are centered around melee weapons, but a couple... aren't.

Maneuvers

Shadowhand stance (+2d6 Sneak Attack) (stance)
Hunter's Sense (Gain Scent) (stance)

Cloak of Deception (Turn invisible till the end of your current turn as with Greater Invisibility) (Maneuver, Boost)
Shadow Stride (teleport up to 50 ft as a move action) (Maneuver)

Dancing Mongoose (Make one additional attack at your hghest bonus) (Maneuver)
Sudden Leap (Make a jump check as a swift action and move that distance) (Maneuver, boost)
#15
Kerrus
Apr 29, 2009 12:51:13 Efficiency Update. Because this is a low magic environment (Magic weapons from MIC and stuff, but any PC casters only have core material to work with) a Ranger's casting ability is even more useless.

Fortunately, Complete Champion rectifies that, with an Alternate Class feature called Champion of the Wild, which removes a ranger's casting ability and grants him a bonus feat at 4th level. It lists what he can take, and oh-ho, one of them happens to be far shot. Now I don't have to take that dead level of Fighter to get to fighter 4 for far shot.

Current Progression at 10th level looks as follows:

1. Ranger: Point Blank Shot, Track (Ranger Bonus), Favoured Enemy (Arcanists), Spiritual Connection, Champion of the Wild (No Casting)
2. Ranger: Rapid Shot (Ranger Bonus)
3. Ranger: Dodge, Endurance (Ranger Bonus)
4. Ranger: Far Shot (Champion of the Wild bonus), Spiritual Guide
5. Fighter: Mobility (Fighter Bonus)
6. Fighter: Weapon Focus [Composite Longbow] (Fighter Bonus), Combat Reflexes
7. 3.0 Templar: Mettle, Weapon Specialization (Templar Bonus)
8. Shadowdancer: Hide in Plain Sight
9. Shadowdancer: Evasion, Darkvision, Uncanny Dodge, True Believer [Elhonna]
10. Deepwood Sniper: Keen Arrows, Range Increment Bonus +10ft/DSlevel.

I'm delving in the CChamp alternate class features pretty heavily because they're pretty good for the aim of this campaign.
#16
feloniousela
Apr 29, 2009 14:33:51
I want to run an archer. That's why he's specced as an archer. I'd thought that'd have been obvious.

Just figured I would give you something that really could actually be an "action star" in your campaign in many different ways, and, like was said, actually jump into the dragon's mouth and pull it off. I never thought of archers standing still or hiding and shooting at things from a ways away as actiony. Forgive me for the suggestion :P

If you want action, try an archer that focuses more on shooting on the move, like a Swift Hunter build or something along those lines. Maybe something with a couple levels of Arcane Archer that runs around bombing things with arrows. Those could be pretty actiony and cool.
#17
Kerrus
Apr 29, 2009 18:18:24 Well, the helps appreciated, no worries. Can't do swift hunter, and while an arcane archer build would be interesting, it's not quite what I'm aiming for.

I've been streamlining the build bit by bit, and have changed the race to human, which lets me cut out several levels of fighter and condense the whole thing down. Now I can get everything I need in ten levels, though if the rolls result with him being dumb (as a brick) he'll still be able to PrC without bonus skill points. Which is good.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Kerrus Apr 28, 2009 19:05:51	I've been accused by a member of my player group of not being 'actiony' enough- which usually translates to 'you don't jump into the dragon's mouth often enough' So I've decided that for a campaign we have coming up (an exalted, martial heavy campaign) to run an Action Character. Specifically an archer. My DM's allowing one flaw, and reflavouring of certain feats if needed. Also, our booklist is as follows: Core, PHBII, CWarrior, Cscoundrel, CChampion, Draconomicon, Tome of Battle (hypothetically), Magic of Incarnum (Also hypothetically), Book of Exalted Deeds, the 3.0 sword and board books, Arms and Equipment Guide, Magic Item Compenium, and Unearthed Arcana. These are the books we have physical access to, and computer based copies won't suffice. Here's my current build- I'd like some suggestions on ways to improve it. No ability scores, we roll stuff out not point buy, unfortunately. As a note, we're starting at level 10, so this build only includes that. I've got some ideas for progression after that- aside from continuing on with swashbuckler. Human Rogue 3/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 5 Lvl 1: Point Blank Shot Human: Precise Shot Flaw (Vulnerable: -1 AC): Rapid Shot Rogue 1: Sneak attack +1d6, Trapfinding Rogue 2: Evasion Rogue 3: Sneak Attack +2d6, Trap Sense +1 Lvl 3: Manyshot Fighter 1: 'Long'bow Sniper Fighter 2: Deadeye Shot Swashbuckler 1: Weapon Finesse Lvl 6: Ancestral Relic Swashbuckler 2: Grace +1 Swashbuckler 3: Insightful Strike Swashbuckler 4: - Lvl 9: Daring Outlaw Swashbuckler 5: Dodge Bonus +1 BAB: +9/+4 Fort: +7 Refl: +4 (+5 with Grace) Will: +2
#2 feloniousela Apr 28, 2009 19:46:33	Illumian w/aeshkrau Duskblade 3/Fighter 2/Lion Pounce Barbarian 1/Suel Arcanamach 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Suel Arcanamach +3/Spellsword 1/Dragon Disciple 4 Use your feats to make him a charger w/Shock Trooper and Leap Attack, slap on buffs, wraithstrike, jump into dragon's mouth.
#3 Kerrus Apr 28, 2009 19:49:16	I want to run an archer. That's why he's specced as an archer. I'd thought that'd have been obvious.
#4 SwordDisciple Apr 28, 2009 20:04:44	I want to run an archer. That's why he's specced as an archer. I'd thought that'd have been obvious. +1.. Thought that was pretty obvious myself.. But then some people get carried away with Charger builds don't they? But I think he meant so you could jump into the Dragons mouth.. I'll post a build in a moment.. Standard gp for 10th level? Templates?
#5 Kerrus Apr 28, 2009 20:28:22	Probably standard GP for 10th level. Templates are unlikely, though. Maybe I could swing some- suggestions are welcome, but if it's a big part of the build... not as much.
#6 SwordDisciple Apr 28, 2009 21:07:37	Elven Archer 1. Ranger: Point Blank Shot, Track (Ranger Bonus), Favoured Enemy 2. Ranger: Rapid Shot (Ranger Bonus) 3. Ranger: Dodge, Endurance (Ranger Bonus) 4. Fighter: Mobility (Fighter Bonus) 5. Fighter: Weapon Focus-Composite Longbow (Fighter Bonus) 6. Pious Templar: Combat Reflexes 7. Pious Templar: 8. Pious Templar: Weapon Specialization- Composite Longbow (Pious Templar Bonus) 9. Shadow Dancer: True Believer (Elhonna) 10. Shadow Dancer: 11. Horizon Walker: 12. Horizon Walker: Woodland Archer 13. Horizon Walker: 14. Horizon Walker: 15. Horizon Walker: Ranged Weapon Mastery 16. Horizon Walker: Shifting 17. Deepwood Sniper: 18. Deepwood Sniper: Able Sniper 19. Fighter: 20. Fighter: Precise Shot(Fighter Bonus) You have Mettle and Evasion, Hide in Plain Sight, Dimension Door once every 1d4 rounds plus a whole bunch of other great abilities. If you can get either the Shadow Template (LA+2) or Dark Template (LA+1), but you could go both via starting with Shadow then getting a Collar of Umbral Metamorphisis - you'll be the sneakiest sneaker out there.. If you aren't allowed Relics don't bother with True Believer, but if you can then use the feat to allow access to this: Arrow, Raptor: Legend says these arrows (there are reputedly five) gained relic status when Ehlonna used them to slay a great wyrm green dragon that was rampaging through a forest primeval. A raptor arrow is a +3 arrow with a variant of the returning quality. At the beginning of the round after it is fired from a bow, a raptor arrow wrenches itself from whatever it hit (dealing 1d8 points of damage), flies up to 400 feet through the air, and restrings itself in the bow from which it was fired. Unlike most ammunition, raptor arrows are never destroyed when they hit their target. If a ranger fires a raptor arrow at a favored enemy, the arrow additionally gains the bane quality against that foe. To use this relic, you must worship Ehlonna and either sacrifi ce a 6th-level divine spell slot or have the True Believer feat. Strong evocation; CL 12th; Sanctify Relic, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, bane bow, creator must worship Ehlonna; Price 14,500 gp; Cost 7,273 gp + 580 XP. Otherwise Exit Wounding/Explosive Arrows are good.. There are plenty of good enchantments for bows. :D Thanks to Carnivore for the ideas behind this build*
#7 Kerrus Apr 28, 2009 21:38:59	That looks like a really fun class, excepting that we don't have a copy of complete divine, so I can't take Pious Templar. Raptor Arrows, though, are a definite in. Horizon Walker too, most likely. I'll work up a revised build in a moment. EDIT: Actually, I do have access to the Pious Templar, via Defenders of the Faith. Go 3.0 sword and board books! EDIT2: That's actually a good thing- both versions are near identical, but the 3.5 version has True Believer as an entry req.
#8 SwordDisciple Apr 28, 2009 21:49:14	That looks like a really fun class, excepting that we don't have a copy of complete divine, so I can't take Pious Templar. Whoops! Sorry about that.. Horizon Walker can be taken earlier in the build. Edit: And didn't think to check if you have access to Masters of the Wild for Deepwood Sniper? If not then ignore my comments at the bottom of this text Could possibly go Mythic Exemplar with Sunyartra 2nd level ability: The critical threat range of one weapon you wield increases by 1. This increase stacks with those from other sources, such as the keen weapon property or the Improved Critical feat. You would have Crit Range 20 normally. Mythic Exemplar will give you 19-20 and then with Deepwood Sniper (x2) it would be 17-20..
#9 Kerrus Apr 28, 2009 23:29:12	current build: Elven Archer of Elhonna 1. Ranger: Point Blank Shot, Track (Ranger Bonus), Favoured Enemy 2. Ranger: Rapid Shot (Ranger Bonus) 3. Ranger: Dodge, Endurance (Ranger Bonus) 4. Fighter: Mobility (Fighter Bonus) 5. Fighter: Weapon Focus [Composite Longbow] (Fighter Bonus) 6. 3.0 Templar: Combat Reflexes, Mettle, Weapon Specialization (3.0 Templar Bonus) 7. Shadowdancer: Hide in Plain Sight 8. Shadowdancer: Evasion, Darkvision, Uncanny Dodge 9. Fighter: True Believer [Elhonna] 10. Fighter: Far Shot 11. Deepwood Sniper: Keen Arrows, Range Increment Bonus +10 ft. 12. Deepwood Sniper: Improved Critical, Concealment Reduction 10%, Magic Weapon, Projectile Improved Critical +1 (Crits on 17-20 for x3 damage- our DM lets keen and improved crit and that sort of effect stack) 13-17: Horizon Walker 18-20: Mythic Exemplar maybe?
#10 SwordDisciple Apr 28, 2009 23:57:49	Mythic Exemplar would make your Crits 16-20.. Not bad really :D If you get Spring Attack in there maybe Jaunter.. But you don't have access Argh.. Fighter will give you bonus Feat.. You have Unearthed Arcana available so maybe forego the Combat Training (you only get Point Blank in this build) Purchase that Feat if you want it and be a Wildshaping Ranger?
#11 Kerrus Apr 29, 2009 0:22:36	Maybe. Thinking not- that might be too magicky for our DM.
#12 Kerrus Apr 29, 2009 0:27:37	EDIT: Misread Horizon Walker- I need six levels of it, not five. Also, for last two levels, maybe Swordsage?
#13 SwordDisciple Apr 29, 2009 0:58:06	Yes, definately need 6 levels of Horizon Walker. Sorry, can't comment on Swordsage - our group thinks it ruins the base classes.. But if it can add to your build then definately go for it :D
#14 Kerrus Apr 29, 2009 1:43:43	Well, I don't think it's meant for cheese like stacking it with monk or that sort of thing, but two levels of swordsage, with the whole initiator level thing provides access to two pretty nice stances and stuff. Most are centered around melee weapons, but a couple... aren't. Maneuvers Shadowhand stance (+2d6 Sneak Attack) (stance) Hunter's Sense (Gain Scent) (stance) Cloak of Deception (Turn invisible till the end of your current turn as with Greater Invisibility) (Maneuver, Boost) Shadow Stride (teleport up to 50 ft as a move action) (Maneuver) Dancing Mongoose (Make one additional attack at your hghest bonus) (Maneuver) Sudden Leap (Make a jump check as a swift action and move that distance) (Maneuver, boost)
#15 Kerrus Apr 29, 2009 12:51:13	Efficiency Update. Because this is a low magic environment (Magic weapons from MIC and stuff, but any PC casters only have core material to work with) a Ranger's casting ability is even more useless. Fortunately, Complete Champion rectifies that, with an Alternate Class feature called Champion of the Wild, which removes a ranger's casting ability and grants him a bonus feat at 4th level. It lists what he can take, and oh-ho, one of them happens to be far shot. Now I don't have to take that dead level of Fighter to get to fighter 4 for far shot. Current Progression at 10th level looks as follows: 1. Ranger: Point Blank Shot, Track (Ranger Bonus), Favoured Enemy (Arcanists), Spiritual Connection, Champion of the Wild (No Casting) 2. Ranger: Rapid Shot (Ranger Bonus) 3. Ranger: Dodge, Endurance (Ranger Bonus) 4. Ranger: Far Shot (Champion of the Wild bonus), Spiritual Guide 5. Fighter: Mobility (Fighter Bonus) 6. Fighter: Weapon Focus [Composite Longbow] (Fighter Bonus), Combat Reflexes 7. 3.0 Templar: Mettle, Weapon Specialization (Templar Bonus) 8. Shadowdancer: Hide in Plain Sight 9. Shadowdancer: Evasion, Darkvision, Uncanny Dodge, True Believer [Elhonna] 10. Deepwood Sniper: Keen Arrows, Range Increment Bonus +10ft/DSlevel. I'm delving in the CChamp alternate class features pretty heavily because they're pretty good for the aim of this campaign.
#16 feloniousela Apr 29, 2009 14:33:51	I want to run an archer. That's why he's specced as an archer. I'd thought that'd have been obvious. Just figured I would give you something that really could actually be an "action star" in your campaign in many different ways, and, like was said, actually jump into the dragon's mouth and pull it off. I never thought of archers standing still or hiding and shooting at things from a ways away as actiony. Forgive me for the suggestion :P If you want action, try an archer that focuses more on shooting on the move, like a Swift Hunter build or something along those lines. Maybe something with a couple levels of Arcane Archer that runs around bombing things with arrows. Those could be pretty actiony and cool.
#17 Kerrus Apr 29, 2009 18:18:24	Well, the helps appreciated, no worries. Can't do swift hunter, and while an arcane archer build would be interesting, it's not quite what I'm aiming for. I've been streamlining the build bit by bit, and have changed the race to human, which lets me cut out several levels of fighter and condense the whole thing down. Now I can get everything I need in ten levels, though if the rolls result with him being dumb (as a brick) he'll still be able to PrC without bonus skill points. Which is good.