The Swords Master
The Swords Master
Oh sorry about that pretty much any book is allowed as long as they are not from the "Broken" books like the book of nine swords.
So the PH must be right out? Seriously, ToB barely begins to provide balance to the non-casters, it isn't broken unless and until Wizards, Clerics, and Druids are completely disallowed.
PS: Saying Tome of Battle is broken makes little sense. Its great both in flavour and mechanics, and is probably oen of the very best written books they put out.
The Swords Master
If at all possible can you give some more ideas about this build and equipment. I just looked at the Marshel class and that does look really cool but how would that go with the COC? thanks for the continued help it really appreciated.:DSwashbuckler3/Fighter2/Dervish10/ChampionOfCorellon2/x3
Two-weapon fighting could be good considering you have full BAB but it get REALLY feats intensive. Take fighter 6/full bab 1 and then enter CoC.
For equipment try to net yourself a metalline weapon or one made of adamantium. DR for your armor or something to absorb damage is always useful.
I have unfortunatly no tips/tricks for the tentacle monster for now.
The Swords Master
The Swords Master
The Swords Master
Dragonborn Wood Elf
Ranger(trapfinding Variant) 2/ Paladin 3/ Pious Templar 3... Champion of Corellon 10/ Exotic Weapon master 2
gain:
Mettle
Weapon Specialize + Melee Weapon Mastery
lots of Feats
Good Skills
Good Saves
:D
For example:
Factotum 3/Swashbuckler 3/Paladin of Freedom 2/CoC1
You lose 1 BAB but you get trapfinding and several times per encounter adding your int to AC/Hit/Damage. You can take the feat Font of Inspiration found online to make the factotum's abilities even more powerful.
maybe that might help with the setting hes trying to set he has read too many forgotten realms books hence the reason for the setting. As for Carnivore I dont know what a dragon born is but the class section does seem interesting... and swordmaster thanks for the Healing link it helped out a lot only major problem is most of those magic idems would be banned by if not givin a decent price increase, lets put it this way he outlawed I think it was some sort of unlimited food source item that was cheaper than merlins magic spoon and it produced decent food rather than mere grool that merlins spoon created and he wondered why didn't some create this for everyone and a good part of city if not world hunger. He's thoughts are that the classes that are in the PHB are in there for a reason and each have their own benifits and drawbacks ergo the cleric is the healer thus defeating the purpose of what you sent me but it was a good read. Basically if we could do that stuff to heal ourselves then the cleric class should be changed to be better, and thus unballancing the game. He doesn't like 4th ED and every class has the ability to heal themselves to some degree ergo some classes can do "anything" also the fact that they nerfed the rogue. Oh yeah were in a good Campaign and the only way to get to be a LVL adj race is if you invest in LVL's to get it he gave me the Okay to be a dragon Diciple and by 10th LVL they becom a half dragon. The amount of changes to the creatures he's made makes the leadership feat completely useless other than the fact of having a cohort. Followers drop too quick, even the ones that have LVL's drop too quickly and the cohort is DM run as an NPC and he gets to choose what LVL they come in at and what Class they are. this is what stopped me from choosing the leadership feat if I got free from a class then maybe I'd consider it, this is half the reason my mind was drawing a blank. The other reason is this, two players in our group always picked the same class an archer ranger and the evocker and every time they rebuilt their character's they would get better at building them and not only that but also inherit the wealth of the past character since we only have one mage and one archer. Thus giving themselves more starting Character wealth so the DM made two rules one The wealth of the dead character is destroyed to some degree he will look over the character sheet and pick out items and say this and that is destroyed. The second rule is you cant be the same class twice now to the other three players including myself this makes for a difficult prospect, for we only have one week to decide what class to be and hopefully have a good progression but most importantly if the character dies you cant pick the same class twice. Ultimately this means starting from scratch once againand that will get quite tedious this is why I've been on the fence the COC has a nice progression for a heavly armed and armored fighter build the armor class alone might save me and the hit points are nice to have while the benifits also make up for what I was doing before (+1 fullplate, +1 towershield, +1 longsword, ring o protection+1, amulet o nat armor+1, and thats just the basics I had) This new Char is brand new and has yet to be introduced. My stats are once again as follows18 str +4
17 dex +3
18 con +4
16 int +3
16 wis +3
18 cha +4
I died at LVL 8 but by the time they get done with the encounter and LVL I may be coming in at LVL 9. I hope this gives you a little more ideas and once again thanks for the help.
Your DM has some pretty weird idea on what is powerful and what is not and the like... He thinks they nerfed the Rogue in 4E? That doesn't even make any sense, except for the spellcasters everyone is stronger than ever in 4E O.o
Your best bet is probably Swashbuckler/Fighter to take advantage of those high stats. Take a two-handed exotic finessable weapon (like the elven courtblade), a level of Exotic Weapon Master later and go to down adding Strenght x2, Int and Dex to damage. With the right armor (mithral full plate of nimblenes) you would have some pretty nice AC and all.
So the PH must be right out? Seriously, ToB barely begins to provide balance to the non-casters, it isn't broken unless and until Wizards, Clerics, and Druids are completely disallowed.
+1
The most broken stuff is in PHB - polymorph etc
1) Clerics should not be healing unless he -has- to in combat. Cleric is much better to cast 1 round of buff and then go in the combat himself, especially at lower levels. Best healing are the vigor spells, which are out of combat (small HP/ round, but better than a CLW/CMW). Actions are precious. If he really needs it, stock up on a) Close Wounds for 2nd level cures, b) Touch of Healing as a reserve feat for "free" healing between encounters.
2) AC is junk. The higher level you get, the less important it becomes. There is a reason that armour enchantments are cheaper than weapon enchantments. A method of miss chance is more important than 1-2 more points of AC. One reason is touch attacks become more problematic the higher you get.
3) If you are really sold on the idea of a CoC-themed character, you run the problem of the feat requirements. At level 9, you would likely have 4 or 5 feats (discounting flaws), which means almost all your feats would have to be devoted to PrC entry. Ideally, you would make a character that would utilize the feats you -have- to take for the PrC, otherwise they are merely dead weight.
Combat Expertise: Higher AC (as dodge bonus). Better AC is not bad, but you want full BAB to best utilize.
Dodge: Eh. At least it stacks w/ CE.
Mounted Combat: You already mentioned that MC is not useful in your campaign.
Weapon Focus or EWP: Self-explanatory. Problematic in that they "lock" you into a specific weapon.
Weapon choices: Thinblade is better crit and works w/ power attack (and finesse, but power attack gives better returns). Would likely stick to that one instead of Longsword, since a +1 damage (from WF) is not as important.
I would almost suggest taking levels 1-7 of Whirling Frenzy variant Barb, except that you can't use the frenzy and expertise at the same time. However, it is still an option, especially since you don't have to use your frenzy every encounter. You can still use medium armor and gain the barb bonuses, and apply the medium armor to the CoC ability. Heck, if you really wanted to, you could get Mithral full plate and still get it counted as medium as applied to barb limitations. That would have a max dex bonus of +6 (+1, +2 for mithral, +3 for CoC). The frenzy would also help w/ the corellon's wrath ability (additional attack that stacks w/ haste effects). Throw in Lion totem from Complete Champion for a pounce ability (full attack at the end of a charge). Heck, at that point, go w/ full plate, since you no longer have to worry about the medium armor limitation of the rapid movement (since you no longer have the rapid movement).
There is a paladin spell that removes fatigue. Can't for the life of me find the book for some reason, but it is low level. Wands of that would be relatively cheap, and taking a couple levels of paladin of freedom (unearthed arcana) would grant both divine grace and access to wands with spells on the paladin spell list. Or you could go totally in the paladin levels to attempt to get the low level spells.
If you are really feat starved, feeble (flaw) isn't bad for your stats, or a couple levels of fighter would help.
. And your right he is a weird DM or atleast a very unconventional one. And I'm begining to piece together the COC class I'm thinking of Swashbuckler/Fighter/ the Paladin variant I found in one of the books where you replace the aura of courage for an aura that allows you to add Cha to AC as a divine bonus. I have an 18 thats a +4 and with a cloak of cha +4 it boosts to a +6. My AC would be 10 base +1 fullplate=9(maybe mithral if I have enof money) +1 from dex, +1 amu nat armor, +1 ring o protection, +6 cha thats a 28 AC w/o shieldand a touch AC of 21 since I add my full dex which is a +4. then for weapons go for the elven thinblade and the courtblade since its a two handed finessable weapon, and I got the goahead to trade in the Special mount (if I co that high in Pal) for a bonus feat that draws off the fighter list or some kind of special ability thats equivelent to the mount. And the Exotic Weapon Master does look fun to play only prob is what cool little tricks should I pick up? Also what's nimbleness? And as the whole polymorph thing the DM barely allows that, I think if the mage ends up abusing it he will ban it. And as I stated before enless you invest in limited items, or potions, scrolls, and more importantly class related healing. He won't go for any other source of magic healing items without banning it or overpricing it. His thoughts the healing belongs to the healers, also his thoughts about the dammage taken and the healing not keeping up with it is "don't get Hit". You know I bet if I were a rogue he would allow some broken things since he favors them the whole campaign 1-6 LVL has been geared to rogues and he did alot of things that he should not be able to do. Also certain Barbarian classes have been dissallowed like like frenzied berzekers, I only played a Barbarian once a long time ago and that campaign didn't last that long for me to get a feel for them. I know this question is going to be off Subject but other than COC what other classes would you recomend even base classes to build from the ground up 1st to 8-9help in general would be appreciated and thanks for the continued support.;)
Exotic Sunder (boo)
Show Off (waste of an action, since mages can shaken more, faster, and easier)
Throw Exotic Weapon (Do you really want to throw your weapon?)
Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting (but would only work w/ 2 courtblades since it requires light weapon)
Trip Attack (a possibility, but you have no reach like a spiked chain)
Uncanny Blow (You are better off just getting power attack and save yourself a level in a class that does something for you)
Was looking over the EWP, and don't see a whole lot of love there. The only tricks you could take w/ the elven thinblade (and courtblade, but that's two feats for proficiency) are:
Exotic Sunder (boo)
Show Off (waste of an action, since mages can shaken more, faster, and easier)
Throw Exotic Weapon (Do you really want to throw your weapon?)
Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting (but would only work w/ 2 courtblades since it requires light weapon)
Trip Attack (a possibility, but you have no reach like a spiked chain)
Uncanny Blow (You are better off just getting power attack and save yourself a level in a class that does something for you)
Just take Racial Weapon Famialirity - EWP on all racial related exotic weapons. And with the courtblade, you just need Uncanny Blow; you are seriously understimating the ability, consider that this guy has the stats to back this up.
18 str +4
17 dex +3
18 con +4
16 int +3
16 wis +3
18 cha +4
Any thoughts:P
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b&page=1
it adds Fighter as a Favored Class.... so if you went with Wood Elf(fav Class Ranger).... then added Dragonborn Template... you would have 2 favored Classes: Ranger and Fighter
as true_shinken and Muertog have already given great advice.... all i would add is this... try this:
use a single Weapon: Elven Courtblade + 2 handed Style
[indent]
Exotic Weapon Tricks:
Trip Attack – you may make Trip attacks with your
non-Light Exotic Melee Weapon. If the weapon
already allowed trips, the action has a +2 bonus.
Exotic Sunder – do +1d6 damage when attempting
to Sunder with an Exotic Weapon.
[/indent]
use two light weapons: Elven Thinblades + TWF
[indent]
Exotic Weapon Tricks:
Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting – when wielding the
same Light Exotic Weapon in each hand, you
are treated as having the Feat: Two Weapon
Fighting. If you actually have the feat, then the
penalty is reduced from –2 to –1 on each hand.
- Trip Attack – you may make Trip attacks with your
non-Light Exotic Melee Weapon. If the weapon
already allowed trips, the action has a +2 bonus.
[/indent]
you could do this:
Wood Elf
Swashbuckler 3/ Paladin 2/ Pious Templar 4/ Exotic Weapon Master 1/ Champion of Corellon 10
:D
Exotic Weapon Trick (Trip Attack) can use a one-handed or two-handed exotic weapon to make a trip attack. No mention of it requires a non-light weapon, so you -can- use the exotic trip w/ the Elven Thinblades.
This teaches me to read the book and not only the post before re-posting. :P
A fighter 4/swash 3 gets you feats, including the option for melee weapon mastery, and int to damage. For defense you can try using combat expertise: if you will not be power attacking like crazy (and will have a decent intelligence) it is not a bad feat, and a prerequsite for all manner of nice tricks. Pious templar is certainly possible, but will at first cost you a few feats. What is your DM's opinion of psionics, and the Psychic Warrior in particular?
Go dual wield longswords with oversized two weapon fighting, TFW tree, if you want to wield tower shield around just make it animated - go with combat expertise and improved combat expertise for AC boosts.
I will talk with him about his build and post it here, he was mentioning something around AC 56-57 on 18th or 19th level, dunno how far you guys are going
For a int based defensive TWFighter.
...problem is that barbarians loose most of their abilities when wearing medium to heavy armor...
For what it's worth, Barbarians only lose their class features when wearing heavy armor or in heavy load. It specifically states no armor, light armor, or medium.
Elegant Strike – add your Dexterity modifier to your damage (in addition to your Strength modifier) with any of the following weapons: [indent]Longsword
Rapier
Elven Thinblade
Elven Lightblade
Elven Courtblade
Scimitar. [/indent]The foe must be vulnerable to Sneak Attack or Critical Hits to take the extra damage.
:D
Anyway, I would say that you want as many stats to AC, damage and hit as possible.
Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2/Dervish 10/CoC 5 would be really nice, as you would be dervish dancing with your elven blades, Getting loads of attacks per round, and still doing a bunch of damage.
Now, this requires lots of feats. For Dervish, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Focus with a Slashing Melee weapon. Wait, no, CoC also requires Combat Expertise and (possibly) Weapon Focus with a slashing melee weapon. Woo!
Just as an aside, ToB is usually called Overpowered because most people think that fighters are already balanced. Its a common misconception, but people think that since the PHB was first, so it couldn't be too bad, or they would have fixed it.
For what it's worth, Barbarians only lose their class features when wearing heavy armor or in heavy load. It specifically states no armor, light armor, or medium.
Is why I mentioned a whirling frenzy barb as a base for entry into the CoC. ^_^
Again thanks for the help its bring my character design to life.
Ps. I know I know The Great Wall of Text, LOL.:embarrass
for a longsword 
I will still have the parrying dagger I'll lose one extra atk but dual weapons isn't my thing our DM is like this D8/D6, a bastard sword being D10 would be pushing it D10/D6. So single weapon, But then again I'm semi looking for a dualist like build. at least I think so far that is.:P