advice on rounding out this party. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

advice on rounding out this party.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
cartolis
May 19, 2009 11:53:01 Ok, so i got a little more info about the setting we will be running in. it is going to be either totally or in part based on The Riftwar Saga by Raymond E. Feist.

from what I have been able to read on the internet so far and what the gm has told me magic users will be rare.

He has said that he might allow a druid but with the party makeup the others are looking at using we lack a skill monkey.

using core only are there any decent druid/rogue builds or would i be better server by going rogue only?

we will need a skill monkey and noone else looks to be stepping up.
thus far it looks like we will have a fighter, sorceror and ranger.

While I would love to play the druid of pwn I would rather not play the druid of pwn impailed in a pit trap because we didnt have a rogue.

so, core only rogue druid builds? or should I go rogue only?

Thanks in advance all.
#2
phaedrusxy
May 19, 2009 12:14:55 Bah, tell the ranger to take a level of rogue. If he doesn't, let him go first and set off all the traps. Seriously. He is the one that should be taking care of this, as his main class perfectly complements it.
#3
cartolis
May 19, 2009 12:16:50 Is one level going to be enough? Its been a while since I have played 3.5, but with the cross class restrictions on skill points will one level be able to beat the trap dc's we see later on?
#4
cru
May 19, 2009 12:30:58 Complete Adventurer has the Daggerspell Shaper PrC. Requires 2 bad feats. Gives 6+Int skills. 9/10 druid casting, wild shape, 3d6 sneak.

You'll probably do better with Rogue 1/Druid 19. (Maybe martial rogue- replaces sneak with fighter feat). Also consider (if available) skilled city dweller variant skills.
#5
magicdealer
May 19, 2009 12:39:35 The level of Rogue is to give your ranger friend Trapfinding, which allows him to use search to find traps with a dc greater than 20.

As a Ranger, he'll already have search as a class skill. If you're worried about things like open lock or... something else cross class to a ranger, you could always try to talk him into taking the Versatile feat.

But seriously, rogue is great for a level dip. Bunch of extra skills, trapfinding, 1d6 sa...heck, might as well make it two for evasion. ^^
#6
pyro_azer
May 19, 2009 14:52:07 Druid 20

You have summon natures ally to find traps with.
#7
phaedrusxy
May 22, 2009 21:30:39
Is one level going to be enough? Its been a while since I have played 3.5, but with the cross class restrictions on skill points will one level be able to beat the trap dc's we see later on?

The main role of a trapfinder is to find the traps, and tell everyone else "Hey, don't step there. That's a trap!" Since Search is a Ranger class skill, a Rogue 1/Ranger 19 can do this as well as a Rogue 20 can.

Then you can avoid/set off/destroy the traps however you see fit. He won't be able to pick locks or disarm traps without setting them off, but that stuff doesn't matter nearly as much as just finding them and warning the party about them.
#8
dr_rocktopus
May 22, 2009 22:52:59 Er.

I'm famous for using trap triggers well past where the trap hits. This precise line of thinking has nearly gotten a number of my players wiped out.

There was this time.... With this fuel-air bomb.....
#9
jgumbyrx
May 22, 2009 23:28:04 well, i think that Daggerspell Shaper + savage grapple + 2 magic daggers = pretty cool (not awesome; not broke; just cool).

also, if you have a ranger in the party, see what they think of doing a Swift Hunter.

if the task really is up to you, a level of scout will take care of it as well, and would be more thematic than rogue with your druid (and it's only one level).

i know i just commited blaspemy, but oh well.

also, what is the rest of the party?
#10
petalred
May 23, 2009 3:20:27 If nobody in the party wants to play a rogue, your DM should go easy on setting up situations that require a rogue. The notion that people should play a particular character to fill a certain role is bogus. People should play the characters they're going to have fun with and the DM should plan encounters and dungeons based on what his or her players are playing.
#11
carnivore
May 23, 2009 6:02:17 try using Timber Rogue:

Ballad of Log, The Timberrogue!

Most of you will remember the exploits of Log, the Timberrogue from our old boards.

For those who need a refresher I'll give you a briefing before I post his latest exploits.

Our party (Cleric, wizard, paladin, ranger) was about to enter the Return to The Temple of Elemental Evil without a rogue.

We were worried about traps.

Until my Ranger had a brilliant idea: The Timberrogue!

The concept was simple. Cut down a tree a good two or three feet thick. Cut out a five-foot long log from it. Cut hand-holds on the side and cut one end to a point.

Now, take said log and roll it in front of the party down suspect hallways. The log sets off any traps well away from the party. On upward slopes or rough floors you might want to employ a pole to push it with.

When you come to a locked or possibly trapped door you have the burliest party member pick up the lof and give it a good hurl through the door. It should weigh a couple hundred pounds so it'll make short work of the door. Same applies to chests. If you want you could probably pick pockets too...as long you don;t care too much about the victim.

A simple tool, a brilliant plan.

But somehow it has become a member of the party!

We started referring to it as "The Rogue". "The rogue will check for traps in the corridor ahead of us." "The Rogue will unlock the door." etc.

Eventually it got to where my Ranger (who has the 'throw anything' feat) would pick him up and shout "SNEAK ATTACK!" and hurl the errant log towards unsuspecting foes.

At one point our paladin preyed to his god to help him smite an evil cleric. He rolled a 1% so the DM rewarded him by having the log suddenly fly up and smite the cleric on its own. But this broke the log and our party was griefstricken...especially the ranger, cleric and wizard who, not being privy to the prayer, assumed that it was an act of LOG that did that, and not the divine intervention of the paladin's god.

We quickly repaired him, using mending spells and the like. The log had given its life to save us, only to rise again from the proverbial ashes.

The GM was having a blast with it so he ruled that the touch of god made the log a +1 Holy weapon.

Now my Ranger, who now sees himself as a divine deciple of the Log, has the honor of bearing the log into combat. The first round of every combat now begins with my ranger shouting "SNEAK ATTACK!!" Or (depending on my mood or the nature of the targets) "HOLY SMITE!!" and hurling the, now blessed, log into the enemy.

He's getting good at it. Sometimes he can hit two or three people if they're standing close to one another.

Recently we found this creepy evil altar with a creepy multi-sided pillar.

We decided to use the Log to help us deface and purify the altar. So I picked it up and started smashing the pilar. Low and hebold each side contained a (now smashed open) secret compartment "The log found a secret pannel and disarmed the trap" (in other words, the thing was smashed in and the log set the trap off)

We found incense, a prayer bead, a dru and somethng else. Well, we used them and an evil elemental eye dealie appeared over the altar. It inflicted temporary levle loss on a couple party members and paralyzed one. The Paladin, who made his save, took up the Log from my injured Ranger and roared a dedication to his deity as he charged the eye.

He smote the eye with the log and saved the day!
When it was all over the party rushed to the smoking log and the injured paladin (there was an explosion that threw him against the wall) and we took up our fallen comrade and raised him up and declared "The Log has saved us! In Log we Trust!"

The paladin was too injured to join in the log-hoist but once the excitement died down the cleric patched him up and we asked him what it was like to be that near to the log when he performed his miracle.

Well...that's the latest exploit of The Log...those of you who already share in the glory of the log, feel free to re-post your experiences from the old boards over here. Or bring in new ones.

The Internet Cult of the Log shal not die!

:D
#12
phaedrusxy
May 23, 2009 9:32:57
Er.

I'm famous for using trap triggers well past where the trap hits. This precise line of thinking has nearly gotten a number of my players wiped out.

See, I think that's just the DM being annoying. It does bring up a good point, though. How trap-happy is your DM? Does he use simple traps, or complicated ones that are difficult to bypass without a dedicated trap-disarmer? I've been in some games where I don't think we encountered a single trap during the entire campaign. On the flip side, there is the Tomb of Horrors.
#13
magicdealer
May 24, 2009 5:24:00 This also begs another question...

Just how dedicated to being good are you?

One zombie makes for a very effective trap activating mechanism, and allows you to put some major distance between yourself and the trigger mech... err... the zombie.

Ever used raise undead on a squirrel? Or the remains of last nights dinner? Of course, granted abilites that bypass the material component do this best.

You can charm animals, use trees, and even the occasional captured foe *or peasant* to trigger those not so nice traps.

Of course, possibly the best way to avoid traps in a campaign is this:

player "I'm searching for traps"
DM "You find a trap in the stonework ahead"
players in unison" Traps!? Everyone out!"
DM "Wait... where are you going? You have to *so and so*"
player "Are you kidding? Someone else will have to do it! We don't do traps!"
DM "You're kidding, right? Right?... Well... *throws four pages across the room* that was a good session."

Or, if the DM wants to be mean...

DM "As you turn to leave, the exit way collapses, leaving you trapped."
player "I make camp. We have supplies for the next few weeks... I'm sure someone will come and free us."

DM "You'd rather sit there and wait than deal with one trap?"
player "So, are we saved yet, or do we have to start rolling versus starvation?"
DM *throws four pages across the room* "Why do I game with you guys?"
player "Because you work in retail, and this is the only thing that makes customer service seem good in comparison."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cartolis May 19, 2009 11:53:01	Ok, so i got a little more info about the setting we will be running in. it is going to be either totally or in part based on The Riftwar Saga by Raymond E. Feist. from what I have been able to read on the internet so far and what the gm has told me magic users will be rare. He has said that he might allow a druid but with the party makeup the others are looking at using we lack a skill monkey. using core only are there any decent druid/rogue builds or would i be better server by going rogue only? we will need a skill monkey and noone else looks to be stepping up. thus far it looks like we will have a fighter, sorceror and ranger. While I would love to play the druid of pwn I would rather not play the druid of pwn impailed in a pit trap because we didnt have a rogue. so, core only rogue druid builds? or should I go rogue only? Thanks in advance all.
#2 phaedrusxy May 19, 2009 12:14:55	Bah, tell the ranger to take a level of rogue. If he doesn't, let him go first and set off all the traps. Seriously. He is the one that should be taking care of this, as his main class perfectly complements it.
#3 cartolis May 19, 2009 12:16:50	Is one level going to be enough? Its been a while since I have played 3.5, but with the cross class restrictions on skill points will one level be able to beat the trap dc's we see later on?
#4 cru May 19, 2009 12:30:58	Complete Adventurer has the Daggerspell Shaper PrC. Requires 2 bad feats. Gives 6+Int skills. 9/10 druid casting, wild shape, 3d6 sneak. You'll probably do better with Rogue 1/Druid 19. (Maybe martial rogue- replaces sneak with fighter feat). Also consider (if available) skilled city dweller variant skills.
#5 magicdealer May 19, 2009 12:39:35	The level of Rogue is to give your ranger friend Trapfinding, which allows him to use search to find traps with a dc greater than 20. As a Ranger, he'll already have search as a class skill. If you're worried about things like open lock or... something else cross class to a ranger, you could always try to talk him into taking the Versatile feat. But seriously, rogue is great for a level dip. Bunch of extra skills, trapfinding, 1d6 sa...heck, might as well make it two for evasion. ^^
#6 pyro_azer May 19, 2009 14:52:07	Druid 20 You have summon natures ally to find traps with.
#7 phaedrusxy May 22, 2009 21:30:39	Is one level going to be enough? Its been a while since I have played 3.5, but with the cross class restrictions on skill points will one level be able to beat the trap dc's we see later on? The main role of a trapfinder is to find the traps, and tell everyone else "Hey, don't step there. That's a trap!" Since Search is a Ranger class skill, a Rogue 1/Ranger 19 can do this as well as a Rogue 20 can. Then you can avoid/set off/destroy the traps however you see fit. He won't be able to pick locks or disarm traps without setting them off, but that stuff doesn't matter nearly as much as just finding them and warning the party about them.
#8 dr_rocktopus May 22, 2009 22:52:59	Er. I'm famous for using trap triggers well past where the trap hits. This precise line of thinking has nearly gotten a number of my players wiped out. There was this time.... With this fuel-air bomb.....
#9 jgumbyrx May 22, 2009 23:28:04	well, i think that Daggerspell Shaper + savage grapple + 2 magic daggers = pretty cool (not awesome; not broke; just cool). also, if you have a ranger in the party, see what they think of doing a Swift Hunter. if the task really is up to you, a level of scout will take care of it as well, and would be more thematic than rogue with your druid (and it's only one level). i know i just commited blaspemy, but oh well. also, what is the rest of the party?
#10 petalred May 23, 2009 3:20:27	If nobody in the party wants to play a rogue, your DM should go easy on setting up situations that require a rogue. The notion that people should play a particular character to fill a certain role is bogus. People should play the characters they're going to have fun with and the DM should plan encounters and dungeons based on what his or her players are playing.
#11 carnivore May 23, 2009 6:02:17	try using Timber Rogue: Ballad of Log, The Timberrogue! Most of you will remember the exploits of Log, the Timberrogue from our old boards. For those who need a refresher I'll give you a briefing before I post his latest exploits. Our party (Cleric, wizard, paladin, ranger) was about to enter the Return to The Temple of Elemental Evil without a rogue. We were worried about traps. Until my Ranger had a brilliant idea: The Timberrogue! The concept was simple. Cut down a tree a good two or three feet thick. Cut out a five-foot long log from it. Cut hand-holds on the side and cut one end to a point. Now, take said log and roll it in front of the party down suspect hallways. The log sets off any traps well away from the party. On upward slopes or rough floors you might want to employ a pole to push it with. When you come to a locked or possibly trapped door you have the burliest party member pick up the lof and give it a good hurl through the door. It should weigh a couple hundred pounds so it'll make short work of the door. Same applies to chests. If you want you could probably pick pockets too...as long you don;t care too much about the victim. A simple tool, a brilliant plan. But somehow it has become a member of the party! We started referring to it as "The Rogue". "The rogue will check for traps in the corridor ahead of us." "The Rogue will unlock the door." etc. Eventually it got to where my Ranger (who has the 'throw anything' feat) would pick him up and shout "SNEAK ATTACK!" and hurl the errant log towards unsuspecting foes. At one point our paladin preyed to his god to help him smite an evil cleric. He rolled a 1% so the DM rewarded him by having the log suddenly fly up and smite the cleric on its own. But this broke the log and our party was griefstricken...especially the ranger, cleric and wizard who, not being privy to the prayer, assumed that it was an act of LOG that did that, and not the divine intervention of the paladin's god. We quickly repaired him, using mending spells and the like. The log had given its life to save us, only to rise again from the proverbial ashes. The GM was having a blast with it so he ruled that the touch of god made the log a +1 Holy weapon. Now my Ranger, who now sees himself as a divine deciple of the Log, has the honor of bearing the log into combat. The first round of every combat now begins with my ranger shouting "SNEAK ATTACK!!" Or (depending on my mood or the nature of the targets) "HOLY SMITE!!" and hurling the, now blessed, log into the enemy. He's getting good at it. Sometimes he can hit two or three people if they're standing close to one another. Recently we found this creepy evil altar with a creepy multi-sided pillar. We decided to use the Log to help us deface and purify the altar. So I picked it up and started smashing the pilar. Low and hebold each side contained a (now smashed open) secret compartment "The log found a secret pannel and disarmed the trap" (in other words, the thing was smashed in and the log set the trap off) We found incense, a prayer bead, a dru and somethng else. Well, we used them and an evil elemental eye dealie appeared over the altar. It inflicted temporary levle loss on a couple party members and paralyzed one. The Paladin, who made his save, took up the Log from my injured Ranger and roared a dedication to his deity as he charged the eye. He smote the eye with the log and saved the day! When it was all over the party rushed to the smoking log and the injured paladin (there was an explosion that threw him against the wall) and we took up our fallen comrade and raised him up and declared "The Log has saved us! In Log we Trust!" The paladin was too injured to join in the log-hoist but once the excitement died down the cleric patched him up and we asked him what it was like to be that near to the log when he performed his miracle. Well...that's the latest exploit of The Log...those of you who already share in the glory of the log, feel free to re-post your experiences from the old boards over here. Or bring in new ones. The Internet Cult of the Log shal not die! :D
#12 phaedrusxy May 23, 2009 9:32:57	Er. I'm famous for using trap triggers well past where the trap hits. This precise line of thinking has nearly gotten a number of my players wiped out. See, I think that's just the DM being annoying. It does bring up a good point, though. How trap-happy is your DM? Does he use simple traps, or complicated ones that are difficult to bypass without a dedicated trap-disarmer? I've been in some games where I don't think we encountered a single trap during the entire campaign. On the flip side, there is the Tomb of Horrors.
#13 magicdealer May 24, 2009 5:24:00	This also begs another question... Just how dedicated to being good are you? One zombie makes for a very effective trap activating mechanism, and allows you to put some major distance between yourself and the trigger mech... err... the zombie. Ever used raise undead on a squirrel? Or the remains of last nights dinner? Of course, granted abilites that bypass the material component do this best. You can charm animals, use trees, and even the occasional captured foe or peasant to trigger those not so nice traps. Of course, possibly the best way to avoid traps in a campaign is this: player "I'm searching for traps" DM "You find a trap in the stonework ahead" players in unison" Traps!? Everyone out!" DM "Wait... where are you going? You have to so and so" player "Are you kidding? Someone else will have to do it! We don't do traps!" DM "You're kidding, right? Right?... Well... throws four pages across the room that was a good session." Or, if the DM wants to be mean... DM "As you turn to leave, the exit way collapses, leaving you trapped." player "I make camp. We have supplies for the next few weeks... I'm sure someone will come and free us." DM "You'd rather sit there and wait than deal with one trap?" player "So, are we saved yet, or do we have to start rolling versus starvation?" DM throws four pages across the room "Why do I game with you guys?" player "Because you work in retail, and this is the only thing that makes customer service seem good in comparison."