I have been wondering for quite a while regarding reducing a spellcaster's CL offensively and how effective it is.
For example, if a level 7 wizard's CL is reduced by 4 to 3 CL, what spells can he cast? Will he still be able to cast a fireball with 3d6 damage or he cannot cast it at all since he need a minimum 5 CL to cast it?
If you guys are wondering how I intend to achieve this, it is through the spell Heroics.
This spell does not mention anything about the target of the spell has to be willing to receive the spell effect. Meaning I can place the spell and choose a fighter feat that the target can qualify for. And since there is no save for the effect, it would be easy to "afflict" the target with this spell
The fighter feat in question will of course naturally be Mage Slayer which has a prereq of +3 BAB and 2 ranks in spellcraft. The side effect of this feat is that you get -4 CL to all your spells and spell-like abilities.
Also, what is the ruling on stacking heroics. Understand that it's mostly up to DM but is there any ruling in the FAQ, Ask Wizards or Eratta that talks about this spell stacking? If DM allows stacking of this spell, then you can cast it again and "afflict" Pierce Magical Protection and Blindfight + Pierce Magical Concealment for a whopping 12 CL loss.
Does this work?
Edit: Forgot to add the point also that the duration is 10 min/lvl.. Quite long IMO for a debuff
Indeed, a wizard with CL 3 cannot cast a fireball (see PHB p. 172 under Caster Level).
I don't think there's been any official ruling about stacking Heroics.
That's a good one - I like it. :D
Indeed, a wizard with CL 3 cannot cast a fireball (see PHB p. 172 under Caster Level).
I don't think there's been any official ruling about stacking Heroics.
I seem to remember something that you could only give one feat with heroics? Don't exactly know, though. Without any provision against gaining more feats by it, everything should stack - since the feats stack independantly.
Yes it is according to table 3-1 in complete arcane.
Text trumps table. Unless the text says "A fighter can select XXX as a bonus Feat", XXX may not be selected as a Fighter Bonus Feat. Don't have it in the same room, so we'll wait till someone who can be arsed looks it up.:P
As I remember, the DMG example says that you can still cast your higher level spells even if you have a lower CL than the class levels you need to cast the spell, then went on to demonstrate with a 3d6 Fireball, even though it would normally do 5d6 at minimum, due to the number of levels needed.
Aside from that, dropping Enervation(s) on them after losing their CL will definitely make for even more pain.
Text trumps table. Unless the text says "A fighter can select XXX as a bonus Feat", XXX may not be selected as a Fighter Bonus Feat. Don't have it in the same room, so we'll wait till someone who can be arsed looks it up.:P
Jeez.
Text trumps table where they disagree. One saying something that the other doesn't isn't really disagreeing.Caster Level
A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell.
You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.
In the event that a class feature, domain granted power, or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt) but also to your caster level check to overcome your target’s spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check).
Caster Level Checks
To make a caster level check, roll 1d20 and add your caster level (in the relevant class). If the result equals or exceeds the DC (or the spell resistance, in the case of caster level checks made for spell resistance), the check succeeds.
Regarding stacking heroics, assuming it is allowed one could use one of those Spell Matrix things and hit with multiples at ones.
Jeez.
Ascetic Rogue?
I hope this helped.
Either way, Heroics grants a feat. Mage Slayer is a feat. You can't gain the same feat twice, unless otherwise stated (it isn't for Mage Slayer). Thus, you can't have multiple Heroics giving you multiple Mage Slayer feats. The stacking issue never actually comes up.
I hope this helped.
They're not talking about giving them Mage Slayer itself over and over. They're talking about giving them the other feats in the same tree (Pierce Magical Protections, etc) after giving them Mage Slayer. All three of those feats give a stacking -4 to caster levels.
This also doesn't help against someone who has buffs running and then goes to melee-land. But against straight casters, nice find!
this would also be great for a spell storing weapon. instead of running up to the enemy wizard to touch him, just put it into the BSF's sword and tell him to go whack the guy himself!
Nice!
Now if you could get it to chain back to the BSF, too, then the BSF would get another advantage over the caster in front of him.
Nice!
Now if you could get it to chain back to the BSF, too, then the BSF would get another advantage over the caster in front of him.
Chain Spell targeting both? Is Heroics touch range? Would need Reach Spell, also.
Chain Spell targeting both? Is Heroics touch range? Would need Reach Spell, also.
Don't know how to do that with a spell storing weapon. Reach spell would disqualify it for the weapon, wouldn't it, so I guess this idea is out.
You could simply chain it to the enemy caster through your BSF, though, with a chained reach spell. There's not even any defence, except not hitting on the chain or SR. Usually harmless spells still get a save, Heroics has none. Pretty nice find, overall.
Don't know how to do that with a spell storing weapon. Reach spell would disqualify it for the weapon, wouldn't it, so I guess this idea is out.
No it wouldn't.
A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon.
It is normally 2nd level (right?), Reach adds +1, and it is still a targeted spell. So you cast it Reach + Chained, targetting the weapon, the fighter, and anyone else who wants it.
Jeez.
It's not even a disagreement. Table says "General Feat", and text doesn't say "Fighter can take as a Bonus Feat".
It's not even a disagreement. Table says "General Feat", and text doesn't say "Fighter can take as a Bonus Feat".
You do realize that EVERY fighter bonus feat in the PHB is listed as a general feat, right? Table 3-1 in CA lists it as being a fighter bonus feat, via superscript IIRC. So it's fine.
You do realize that EVERY fighter bonus feat in the PHB is listed as a general feat, right? Table 3-1 in CA lists it as being a fighter bonus feat, via superscript IIRC. So it's fine.
Noted and noted. However, that still doesn't change the fact that in the PHB itself, under the Feat descriptions, they specifically say "A Fighter may choose XXX as a Fighter Bonus Feat.".