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air genasi monk

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
airmyl_glim
Jan 20, 2009 18:17:00 Ok I have a 4th lvl air genasi monk in a camp. my friend is running. I would like to maximize/optimize the character.

He loves to munchkin his characters in my camp so I would kinda like to show him what it's like.... The shoe on the other foot kinda deal, but I'm not really a munchkin so I kinda need help. Any way please let me know what I can do.

He let me take the race without the lvl adjustment too.. I was think how I could take advantage of the fact that air genasi's do not breath. I could use a smoke bomb/poisen attack that lowers AC/fort/ or something else. Then move in with a flurry of blows or a stunning attack..

or a teleportation spell so I can teleport to space/ under water, with a grapple check and force the opponent to sufficate.

Those are just things that I have thought of and haven't really got time to look to much into. Any help would be appriciated

Jerry
#2
pithica
Jan 21, 2009 11:32:44 Monks are not typically good options as bases from which to optimize (or, in your vernacular, 'munchkin'). Monk abilities are typically considered 'easy' to circumvent, because of the melee limitation, and therefore have a tendency to lose effectiveness over the long term, at least, mathematically.

That being said, I personally like the class, and have seen it used in actual play quite effectively (both as a player playing one, a player with another player playing one, and as a DM using it as a basis for NPC's, and as a DM with players playing one).

Of course, in every situation I've seen it used effectively, what they were really playing was one or another form of Gish ('warrior/caster' hybrid), and not a straight monk.

If you reply, you may want to mention what books you have access to, as most members around here won't give much info without knowing that. Also, you probably want to start with google searches for the class handbooks, looking at monk especially, but some of the others may help.

Builds I like based on Monk...

Monk 4/Cloistered Cleric 1/Human Paragon 3/Sacred Fist 10/Contemplative 2

Now, obviously as a Genesai, you aren't really human, so that may be out, you can replace it with 3 more levels of Cloistered Cleric if your DM won't houserule it as allowed (mine always rule the 'lesser planetouched' from Faerun as 'human' for purposes of PrC's/feats they qualify for, but I don't know if that's RAW or a house-rule). Trading CC for HP loses you a feat and 2 points to an attribute but gives you an extra caster level. My three favorite options for the Cloistered Cleric domains with this build are Pride, Law Devotion (trade law domain), and Knowledge Devotion (trade Knowledge domain). Travel Devotion is another solid option. At the end of the day, you'll be looking at a BAB of +16 (+20 with Divine Power), and a Caster level of 15 (8th level cleric spells, text trumps table on the Sacred Fist progression and it's a full 10/10 caster class), and monk unarmed damage/AC/Speed at ~14 (~19 with a Monk's Belt). You get good synergy with Wisdom being a primary stat across the board, and the Knowledge/Law devotions with Cleric buffs give a solid damage/to hit bonus. If you take the full TWF tree and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (cleric spell, or boots of speed), you'll be throwing ~9 attacks per round. If you can get away with Extra Spell and take Greater Mighty Wallop, you could be throwing around ~6d6 base damage (before bonuses from Strength, Knowledge, Law, and buffs) with each hit.

Cloistered Cleric and Human Paragon are both in Unearthed Arcana.
Sacred Fist and Contemplative are both in Complete Divine.
The Devotion Feats are in Complete Champion
Extra Spell is in Complete Arcane.
Greater Mighty Wallop is in Races of the Dragon.

An arcane version of that is similar, though not as optimal, something like...

Monk 4/Sorcerer 3/Enlightened Fist 10/Incantatrix 3

Normally if you wanted to go arcane/monk, I would've told you to go Kobold and not take more than a level or two of monk. You should definitely take Aesthetic Mage with the build. The above isn't *bad*, you can make it work with solid spell selection, but you're only getting 7th level spells, which isn't as good as it could be. The BAB is only 12 on this route too, which is sub-par on that end. You can make up 2 of the BAB points by going Abjurant Champion instead of Incantatrix, but that still only get's you to 14. The better option is to take Arcane Disciple (Pride, War, or Competition (my fav)) and persist (using Persist Spell and Incantatrix's 'Metamagic Effect' ability) Divine Power for a full BAB of 20 at 20. I'd still go the full TWF tree for the extra attacks and definitely pick Greater Mighty Wallop as one of your 3rds (for the ~6d6 base damage with your fists). This build also gives you some ranged options if you want, you can pick Blood Wind as one of your 1sts and punch from 20' away, combined with Greater Mirror Image, lots of fun can ensue. Persisted Wraithstrike is also a good option, making all your attacks touch attacks.

Enlightened Fist and Aesthetic Mage are both in Complete Arcane (I think, the Aesthetic Mage feat may be in Complete Adventurer, it's been a while.)
Persist Spell and Incantatrix are both in Player's Guide to Faerun.
Arcane Disciple is in Complete Divine
Pride and Competition domains are both in the Spell Compendium, as is Wraithstrike and Blood wind.
Greater Mirror Image is in the PH2.

I've also had a friend make a solid Monk/Psion (or Psychic Warrior) gish, but I personally never really use Psionics in my own builds, so I'm not familiar enough with the mechanics to direct you. I do know he used Elocator and I think Xerth Cenobite in his builds, though. Another option is a monk/bard with optimized Inspire courage, though that's just off the top of my head, I've never actually ran the numbers on it, or seen it played.

Post books allowed for better direction. Feel free to ask more specific questions.
#3
phaedrusxy
Jan 21, 2009 11:58:32 I'd suggest Monk/Ardent. Look in here for ideas. As Pithica said, monks aren't very strong by themselves. I've had fun with multiclassed monks, though (monk/shou disciple/other for mine). Warmind is another psionic class that mixes well with monk, but it doesn't come into play until later in the game.
#4
winternacht
Jan 21, 2009 13:46:17 Just a note: Ascetic Mage is found in CAd
#5
airmyl_glim
Jan 21, 2009 17:35:01 As of right the books I have are

Oriental Adventures
Monster Manual
Psionics handbook
Dungeon Master Guide
Complete Arcane
Aerial, Adventure guide (not WotC, but a d20 system book)
Forgotten Realms
Races of faerun
and the Players handbook

I can get any of the books if to just make the character... I also have the fallowing dragon Magazines:

issue 299 of September 2002
issue 302 of December 2002
issue 306 of april 2003
issue 308 of June 2003
issue 314 of December 2003
issue 317 of March 2004
issue 341 of March 2006
issue 345 of July 2006
issue 347 of September 2006

I think that's about it for now. I am REALLY bad with hyphen book names so if you could put the full name of the book I would appreciate it.
#6
NiteCyper
Jan 21, 2009 19:24:16
I am REALLY bad with hyphen book names so if you could put the full name of the book I would appreciate it.

You are REALLY bad with 'abbreviated book-names'. Acronym is a term used for abbreviations that can be pronounced as a word. e.g. S.C.U.B.A. (gear/diving/etc.).
(or, in your vernacular, 'hyphen book names').

#7
NiteCyper
Jan 21, 2009 19:40:21 double post

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 airmyl_glim Jan 20, 2009 18:17:00	Ok I have a 4th lvl air genasi monk in a camp. my friend is running. I would like to maximize/optimize the character. He loves to munchkin his characters in my camp so I would kinda like to show him what it's like.... The shoe on the other foot kinda deal, but I'm not really a munchkin so I kinda need help. Any way please let me know what I can do. He let me take the race without the lvl adjustment too.. I was think how I could take advantage of the fact that air genasi's do not breath. I could use a smoke bomb/poisen attack that lowers AC/fort/ or something else. Then move in with a flurry of blows or a stunning attack.. or a teleportation spell so I can teleport to space/ under water, with a grapple check and force the opponent to sufficate. Those are just things that I have thought of and haven't really got time to look to much into. Any help would be appriciated Jerry
#2 pithica Jan 21, 2009 11:32:44	Monks are not typically good options as bases from which to optimize (or, in your vernacular, 'munchkin'). Monk abilities are typically considered 'easy' to circumvent, because of the melee limitation, and therefore have a tendency to lose effectiveness over the long term, at least, mathematically. That being said, I personally like the class, and have seen it used in actual play quite effectively (both as a player playing one, a player with another player playing one, and as a DM using it as a basis for NPC's, and as a DM with players playing one). Of course, in every situation I've seen it used effectively, what they were really playing was one or another form of Gish ('warrior/caster' hybrid), and not a straight monk. If you reply, you may want to mention what books you have access to, as most members around here won't give much info without knowing that. Also, you probably want to start with google searches for the class handbooks, looking at monk especially, but some of the others may help. Builds I like based on Monk... Monk 4/Cloistered Cleric 1/Human Paragon 3/Sacred Fist 10/Contemplative 2 Now, obviously as a Genesai, you aren't really human, so that may be out, you can replace it with 3 more levels of Cloistered Cleric if your DM won't houserule it as allowed (mine always rule the 'lesser planetouched' from Faerun as 'human' for purposes of PrC's/feats they qualify for, but I don't know if that's RAW or a house-rule). Trading CC for HP loses you a feat and 2 points to an attribute but gives you an extra caster level. My three favorite options for the Cloistered Cleric domains with this build are Pride, Law Devotion (trade law domain), and Knowledge Devotion (trade Knowledge domain). Travel Devotion is another solid option. At the end of the day, you'll be looking at a BAB of +16 (+20 with Divine Power), and a Caster level of 15 (8th level cleric spells, text trumps table on the Sacred Fist progression and it's a full 10/10 caster class), and monk unarmed damage/AC/Speed at ~14 (~19 with a Monk's Belt). You get good synergy with Wisdom being a primary stat across the board, and the Knowledge/Law devotions with Cleric buffs give a solid damage/to hit bonus. If you take the full TWF tree and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (cleric spell, or boots of speed), you'll be throwing ~9 attacks per round. If you can get away with Extra Spell and take Greater Mighty Wallop, you could be throwing around ~6d6 base damage (before bonuses from Strength, Knowledge, Law, and buffs) with each hit. Cloistered Cleric and Human Paragon are both in Unearthed Arcana. Sacred Fist and Contemplative are both in Complete Divine. The Devotion Feats are in Complete Champion Extra Spell is in Complete Arcane. Greater Mighty Wallop is in Races of the Dragon. An arcane version of that is similar, though not as optimal, something like... Monk 4/Sorcerer 3/Enlightened Fist 10/Incantatrix 3 Normally if you wanted to go arcane/monk, I would've told you to go Kobold and not take more than a level or two of monk. You should definitely take Aesthetic Mage with the build. The above isn't bad, you can make it work with solid spell selection, but you're only getting 7th level spells, which isn't as good as it could be. The BAB is only 12 on this route too, which is sub-par on that end. You can make up 2 of the BAB points by going Abjurant Champion instead of Incantatrix, but that still only get's you to 14. The better option is to take Arcane Disciple (Pride, War, or Competition (my fav)) and persist (using Persist Spell and Incantatrix's 'Metamagic Effect' ability) Divine Power for a full BAB of 20 at 20. I'd still go the full TWF tree for the extra attacks and definitely pick Greater Mighty Wallop as one of your 3rds (for the ~6d6 base damage with your fists). This build also gives you some ranged options if you want, you can pick Blood Wind as one of your 1sts and punch from 20' away, combined with Greater Mirror Image, lots of fun can ensue. Persisted Wraithstrike is also a good option, making all your attacks touch attacks. Enlightened Fist and Aesthetic Mage are both in Complete Arcane (I think, the Aesthetic Mage feat may be in Complete Adventurer, it's been a while.) Persist Spell and Incantatrix are both in Player's Guide to Faerun. Arcane Disciple is in Complete Divine Pride and Competition domains are both in the Spell Compendium, as is Wraithstrike and Blood wind. Greater Mirror Image is in the PH2. I've also had a friend make a solid Monk/Psion (or Psychic Warrior) gish, but I personally never really use Psionics in my own builds, so I'm not familiar enough with the mechanics to direct you. I do know he used Elocator and I think Xerth Cenobite in his builds, though. Another option is a monk/bard with optimized Inspire courage, though that's just off the top of my head, I've never actually ran the numbers on it, or seen it played. Post books allowed for better direction. Feel free to ask more specific questions.
#3 phaedrusxy Jan 21, 2009 11:58:32	I'd suggest Monk/Ardent. Look in here for ideas. As Pithica said, monks aren't very strong by themselves. I've had fun with multiclassed monks, though (monk/shou disciple/other for mine). Warmind is another psionic class that mixes well with monk, but it doesn't come into play until later in the game.
#4 winternacht Jan 21, 2009 13:46:17	Just a note: Ascetic Mage is found in CAd
#5 airmyl_glim Jan 21, 2009 17:35:01	As of right the books I have are Oriental Adventures Monster Manual Psionics handbook Dungeon Master Guide Complete Arcane Aerial, Adventure guide (not WotC, but a d20 system book) Forgotten Realms Races of faerun and the Players handbook I can get any of the books if to just make the character... I also have the fallowing dragon Magazines: issue 299 of September 2002 issue 302 of December 2002 issue 306 of april 2003 issue 308 of June 2003 issue 314 of December 2003 issue 317 of March 2004 issue 341 of March 2006 issue 345 of July 2006 issue 347 of September 2006 I think that's about it for now. I am REALLY bad with hyphen book names so if you could put the full name of the book I would appreciate it.
#6 NiteCyper Jan 21, 2009 19:24:16	I am REALLY bad with hyphen book names so if you could put the full name of the book I would appreciate it. You are REALLY bad with 'abbreviated book-names'. Acronym is a term used for abbreviations that can be pronounced as a word. e.g. S.C.U.B.A. (gear/diving/etc.). (or, in your vernacular, 'hyphen book names').
#7 NiteCyper Jan 21, 2009 19:40:21	double post