A while back I came across the interesting 3.5 spell Balor Nimbus, a second-level spell which deals 6d6 damage per round to anyone grappling you. This seemed like an interesting thing to try to work into a character, but I've been having trouble making it playable in a 4-5 PC party. I'm thinking a battle sorcerer/fighter/spellsword/dragon disciple progression might work here. Here's what I've come up with so far:
The Huglomancer!
Race: Human
Stats: Str 16, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 13 (28-point buy)
Levels:
1: Battle Sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana) Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer)
Skills: Spellcraft, Knowledge(Arcana), Concentration (full ranks for all)
Spells: Enlarge person, et al
2: Fighter. Feat: Improved Grapple (This is why I need dex 13) No skill purchase except Speak Draconic and maybe something silly like ride
3-5: Battle Sorcerer. Pick up Nerveskitter at 4th, Balor Nimbus at 5th. Build up full ranks of knowedge(arcana) and concentration to maintain throughout build
6-10: Spellsword (Complete Warrior). Here I can pick up 3rd-level spell slots for Still Balor Nimbus (Still Spell picked up at 7th, and I can get Hailstones (Spell Compendium) for ranged attacking and for channeling into armor spikes, both via the Spellsword's channeling ability and through buying the Spell Storage upgrade.) Steady Concentration (Races of Stone) lets me take 10 on concentration checks under any conditions, so Combat Casting isn't needed if I take that at 6th. Eschew Materials at 9th level circumvents the need to grab ashes before grappling someone.
11-20: Dragon Disciple. I'm no longer looking to boost my spellcasting, so continuing Spellsword seems like a waste, especially when it's for BattleSorc casting levels. The strength boosts more than make up for the BAB loss, and my primary source of damage comes from holding a grapple (as opposed to attacking in one) anyhow. I also like the thematic implications of blending physical might and arcane power through lineage. Feats for 12th, 15th, and 18th, I've left open; have fun with those.
Anyhow, that's what I've come up with thus far. My main problem lies in making him a useful tank, e.g. able to keep baddies away from the caster/rogue, while maintaining his powers of huglomancy.
I'd like to hear what thoughts you have on it. In terms of build restrictions, I'm pretty set on a 28-point buy with no flaws and sticking to WotC content. My DM's also dropped the banhammer on Abjurant Champion, and I really can't blame him.
I'm looking forward to suggestions.
Greetings!
A while back I came across the interesting 3.5 spell Balor Nimbus, a second-level spell which deals 6d6 damage per round to anyone grappling you. This seemed like an interesting thing to try to work into a character, but I've been having trouble making it playable in a 4-5 PC party. I'm thinking a battle sorcerer/fighter/spellsword/dragon disciple progression might work here. Here's what I've come up with so far:
The Huglomancer!
Race: Human
Stats: Str 16, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 13 (28-point buy)
Levels:
1: Battle Sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana) Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer)
Skills: Spellcraft, Knowledge(Arcana), Concentration (full ranks for all)
Spells: Enlarge person, et al
2: Fighter. Feat: Improved Grapple (This is why I need dex 13) No skill purchase except Speak Draconic and maybe something silly like ride
3-5: Battle Sorcerer. Pick up Nerveskitter at 4th, Balor Nimbus at 5th. Build up full ranks of knowedge(arcana) and concentration to maintain throughout build
6-10: Spellsword (Complete Warrior). Here I can pick up 3rd-level spell slots for Still Balor Nimbus (Still Spell picked up at 7th, and I can get Hailstones (Spell Compendium) for ranged attacking and for channeling into armor spikes, both via the Spellsword's channeling ability and through buying the Spell Storage upgrade.) Steady Concentration (Races of Stone) lets me take 10 on concentration checks under any conditions, so Combat Casting isn't needed if I take that at 6th. Eschew Materials at 9th level circumvents the need to grab ashes before grappling someone.
11-20: Dragon Disciple. I'm no longer looking to boost my spellcasting, so continuing Spellsword seems like a waste, especially when it's for BattleSorc casting levels. The strength boosts more than make up for the BAB loss, and my primary source of damage comes from holding a grapple (as opposed to attacking in one) anyhow. I also like the thematic implications of blending physical might and arcane power through lineage. Feats for 12th, 15th, and 18th, I've left open; have fun with those.
Anyhow, that's what I've come up with thus far. My main problem lies in making him a useful tank, e.g. able to keep baddies away from the caster/rogue, while maintaining his powers of huglomancy.
I'd like to hear what thoughts you have on it. In terms of build restrictions, I'm pretty set on a 28-point buy with no flaws and sticking to WotC content. My DM's also dropped the banhammer on Abjurant Champion, and I really can't blame him.
I'm looking forward to suggestions.
You'll probably find some useful stuff here: brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...
Well, 6d6 damage isn't going to stay relevant at high levels. If you continue to advance casting, you can add on energy admixture and empower, with maximize from a metamagic rod. If you take all 5 levels of the war mage prestige class from Dragonlance: Age of Mortals, you get +3 damage per die. I believe that comes out to 108+0.5(12d6+36) damage per round.
The surest way to grapple a creature is to polymorph into a mimic. You gain its adhesive attack, allowing you to automatically establish and maintain a grapple.
You can share both the polymorph and balor nimbus spells with your familiar and double the effect.
I feel bad, though, sinking levels into PrC's like that for battlesorc caster levels. Any ideas on giving him the requisite casting and BAB without using battlesorc? I'd prefer to use spontaneous casting if I could, but I'm open to prepared if necessary.
While polymorph has limitless fun options, I'm looking for something to minimize the number of buffs to be necessary for awesome. While it's nice to charge in rocking enough buffs to make even the greatest fighter soil his full plate, having to sit around to set all that up can be costly. Given the build's not-so-great initiative score and abysmal spot and listen checks, I'm wary of him being caught with his pants down.
Keep 'em coming!
Pick a race with a massive Con score, like a dragonborn dwarf, and the d4 hit points won't bother you too badly. Especially when you also throw on things like (Greater) Mirror Image and False Life.
If you want fighter bonus feats, cast Heroism a few times.
If you want armor, add githcraft, twilight, and mithril to reduce the ASF.Of course you could also take 1 level of runecaster as a dwarf and then cast all of your spells in full plate and not worry about ASF.
Re: Dragonborn Dwarf. Cute. Boosting con is a good idea; I'll have to see if I can work that into the rest of the scheme. Only problem is that the dragonborn dex penalty makes it nigh-impossible to get improved grapple. I realize that polymorph, trollform, et al makes this irrelevant, but once again, we're looking at low-level effectiveness and not going crazy with buffs.
Runecaster's a neat trick, but getting out material components in a grapple is a full-round action. Might be a problem. Works well for non-grapple casting, though.
Here's another proposition:
Stick with human, stats same as before: Str 16, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 13
1: Human Paragon (Unearthed Arcana). Taking this here and at levels 3 and 4 will get me 3/4 BAB, a feat, 2/3 casting, and a +2 strength boost to help compensate for BAB loss. It has the additional (albeit build-useless) feature of making any skill class for life. Go go Diplo-gish! ^_^
2: Sorc with Stalwart Sorcerer (Complete Mage) and Metamagic Specialist (PHB II). I like spontaneous casting. Sue me. Stalwart gives me some HP (eventually 4, since I'll be taking Sorc here and at 5th level) and weapon focus in exchange for one spell known. My familiar's not going to advance much, what with the 2 levels of sorc I'm taking, so trading it in for metamagic fun sounds like a win.
3-4: Human Paragon, as described above.
5: Sorc, as described above. I can pick up Nimbus here, maybe Fearsome Grapple instead.
6: Fighter. I need something to get me full Armor Proficiency for Spellsword (yes, I'm still using that for channeling fun), and the extra feat doesn't hurt, either; it makes for 6 feats in 6 levels.
7-11: Spellsword. I like reducing ASF to the point where I can rock some kind of full plate, bonus feat at 8th is a nice touch, and channeling is too much fun for me to ignore, especially when (unlike the spell storing enchantment) there's no limit to the level of spell you can cast through it.
Out the top: Eldritch Knight. Boring, yes, but it'll get me access to 7th level spells, and throwing in Improved Toughness gives me an average hit die somewhere between d8 and d10; ok for a tank, I think.
That's what I have for now. I'd like to see if we can stick to spontaneous casting, if only as an exercise because no one needs another lesson in how wizards pwn everyone with the right set of spells. Let me know what you think.
I see the massive late-level power implications of running a wizard, but I'm looking for something that can function appreciably as a tank through lower levels as well. I won't be able to rock persistent Nimbus until 13th level as an incantrix, Divine Power until 17th as an incantrix (and not at all if not one!).
This is simply wrong. Go look at the 3rd level ability of Incantatrix because you obviously have never read it. You can throw up an insane number of persistent spells, of any level spell that you can cast, starting at level 3 incantatrix, or ECL 8, as long as you can make uber-high spellcraft checks.
www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/200...
I did some more digging and found the one you're talking about. Fair enough. I'd just need to hit a DC [18+(2+6)*3] = 42 spellcraft check to persist Balor Nimbus. I'm sure there are ways of hitting that consistently before 13th level, but I'd prefer not to go that route if I could. Like I said in my last post, I'm aware of the dominance of wizards (and incantrices, now that I've found the right one), so I think it'd be a more interesting exercise to see what can be accomplished without resorting to the Nuclear Option that is the optimized wizard/incantrix. No worries if you disagree.
Alternatively, you could go other way round, first build a decent grappler, then enter Suel Arcanamach for spells. Something like Melee 6 / Suel 4 / Abjurant Champion 5 / whatever.
In case you're wondering how one bans clerics and maintains healers, people looking to heal generally get directed towards the cloistered cleric (unearthed arcana) class. You lose the basassery of the tank-cleric, but you can still get some heals.
If favored soul is in, how about spontaneous cleric?
Second: Banned Cleric?! A BASE class?! C'mon that's crazy. I mean... I've banned monk before, but to be fair that's because it takes a special player and the sun and moon and stars all aligning up to make that class work at all and had anyone taken monk without all those circumstances lining up it would have ended in a TPK.
So, your DM has banned not only Cleric, but also PRCs that would enhance Cleric? Did he ban Healer, or favored soul? How does he deal with turning and the undead? This guy sounds fascinating.
Good point on the cleric spell thing; my DM loathes clerics, though, and has in fact banned standard clerics. Likewise with Abjurant Champion. Favored Soul is still fair game, though. I'll have to look into putting together something that way with it.
In case you're wondering how one bans clerics and maintains healers, people looking to heal generally get directed towards the cloistered cleric (unearthed arcana) class. You lose the basassery of the tank-cleric, but you can still get some heals.
Whaaaat?
The Cloistered Cleric is in fact superior to the normal cleric. For tanking and everything else. The loss of an average of 1 hit point per level doesn't even matter. Nor does your BAB when you can cast DMM: Persistent Divine Power.
I think you and your DM are playing under some misconceptions about D&D... Like cleric = bandaid, and tanks need big hit dice.
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