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Alpha strike Bard - Possible?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
cravin
Apr 22, 2008 12:56:17 I remember there Being a Thread about bards who had the party deal assloads of extra damage with their singing If anyone could link me to this thread I would appreciate it.

The party I will be joining soon basically lacks an Alpha strike character, however, they also lack a face. The closest thing they have to a face is the artificer with a highish cha (18 I think)

This got me to thinking, is it possible to Create a bard, that not only is the face of the party, but double threats as the alpha strike? With a 3/4 BaB I am unsure, but I would really like to hear some Ideas. I will be scouring my books and this forum for the added damage from bard, and a way to make this build.

Currently the party is fourth level, but I am going to try and make this character to 20 without dying, So I want to be as optimized as possible at fourth level (Hard I know) but continue to optimize as I proceed.

Thanks all = D
#2
lordofleapin
Apr 22, 2008 13:30:22 Words of Creation and Draconic Inspiration are two key feats that pave the way to add a lot of extra damage. Song of the White Raven would allow you to stack Crusader or Warblade levels for determining the power of Inspire Courage. Also the Crusader/Warblade levels and maneuvers would make you far more resilient than a straight Bard.

Both of those classes have access to Diplomacy as well. Of course Able Learner could take care of any other social skills. I would think it would be quite easy to make a melee Bard that could still be a good face.
#3
Wyvernhand
Apr 22, 2008 13:31:31 Probably the best thing you can do is Bard4/Warblade16. Important feats are going to be Song of the White Raven (ToB), Song of the Heart (ECS), and Dragonfire Inspiration (DragMagic). Everything past that is your choice. Song of the White Raven has 2 effects. 1st is that your bard and warblade levels stack to calculate your bardic music effect. This is important because it gives you higher level Inspire Courage (which gets swapped to Dragonfire). The 2nd effect is that as long as you are in a White Raven Stance, you can begin a bardic music effect as a swift action (instead of standard). This one is only really good if you stop singing...most of the time you don't need to.

Next, take 2WF feats (TWF, GTWF, ITWF) and wield a pair of shortswords or daggers. Focus primarily on Tiger Claw maneuvers like Pouncing Charge, Sudden Leap, and Xing Mongoose with a side emphasis on Diamond Mind and Ironheart for defenses. If you start Bard4 before going Bard4/Warblade1, you'll start right away with an IL of 3 which means you can choose 1st OR 2nd level maneuvers even though you can only choose level 1 stances (the charge one from WR is a pretty good start).

Finally, pimp out your gear. Get weapons that synergize well with TWF. A pair of +1 Wounding shortswords would be excellent, otherwise holy and collision are nice 2ndary choices. Get some bardic gear like a Badge of Valor(MIC) and a Vest of Legends (DMGII). Don't bother with +cha items, since you aren't really relying on bardic spellcasting past Inspirational Boost. After that, just get the standard melee gear like Boots of Speed, Cloak of Resistance, +str, +con, +dex items, and maybe some light armor like a chain shirt or Mithril breastplate. You'll be a fast and deadly killer with that gear and build, and you're whole team will benefit.

IF you do have the cha to support it, a single level of Marshall from PHBII would be ok if you don't mind giving up level 9 maneuvers at level 20. The Motivate Dex aura will give your whole team a huge bonus to initiative that is needed to really get the drop on someone. That would be more worth it at low levels, with less effect at higher levels.
#4
playswithfire
Apr 22, 2008 13:49:53 I think this is what you're thinking of http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-795369.html
#5
cravin
Apr 22, 2008 14:03:35
Probably the best thing you can do is Bard4/Warblade16. Important feats are going to be Song of the White Raven (ToB), Song of the Heart (ECS), and Dragonfire Inspiration (DragMagic). Everything past that is your choice. Song of the White Raven has 2 effects. 1st is that your bard and warblade levels stack to calculate your bardic music effect. This is important because it gives you higher level Inspire Courage (which gets swapped to Dragonfire). The 2nd effect is that as long as you are in a White Raven Stance, you can begin a bardic music effect as a swift action (instead of standard). This one is only really good if you stop singing...most of the time you don't need to.

Next, take 2WF feats (TWF, GTWF, ITWF) and wield a pair of shortswords or daggers. Focus primarily on Tiger Claw maneuvers like Pouncing Charge, Sudden Leap, and Xing Mongoose with a side emphasis on Diamond Mind and Ironheart for defenses. If you start Bard4 before going Bard4/Warblade1, you'll start right away with an IL of 3 which means you can choose 1st OR 2nd level maneuvers even though you can only choose level 1 stances (the charge one from WR is a pretty good start).

Finally, pimp out your gear. Get weapons that synergize well with TWF. A pair of +1 Wounding shortswords would be excellent, otherwise holy and collision are nice 2ndary choices. Get some bardic gear like a Badge of Valor(MIC) and a Vest of Legends (DMGII). Don't bother with +cha items, since you aren't really relying on bardic spellcasting past Inspirational Boost. After that, just get the standard melee gear like Boots of Speed, Cloak of Resistance, +str, +con, +dex items, and maybe some light armor like a chain shirt or Mithril breastplate. You'll be a fast and deadly killer with that gear and build, and you're whole team will benefit.

IF you do have the cha to support it, a single level of Marshall from PHBII would be ok if you don't mind giving up level 9 maneuvers at level 20. The Motivate Dex aura will give your whole team a huge bonus to initiative that is needed to really get the drop on someone. That would be more worth it at low levels, with less effect at higher levels.

Thanks for that, I actually just found the thread that PWF mentioned below. Why would my Initiator level automatically be three?

I think this is what you're thinking of http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-795369.html

Actually I found this before I came back ehre to check for replies. This thread ISN'T the one I am looking for, but it has basically the same information + Tome of battle stuff. Right now I am thinking about going Bard 4/ Warblade 16 as the thread and Wyverhand suggest. However, I may give up Warblade for crusader, for the flavor and self sufficiency of the Crusader, which to me is more important than maximum damage. Then I suppose one could argue you already ARW self sufficient if everything dies before it can hurt you.

Anyway, thanks guys, still looking for that other post. I remember someone in it says something about 5 flying pirate bards that rule ebberon when they unite, or something. iunno.
#6
lordofleapin
Apr 22, 2008 14:22:59 http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=816095

That's the Inspire Courage thread you're looking for I think. Tons of great information in that thread.

The Crusader option vs. Warblade is just as good, but in a different way. TWF with Furious Counterstrike, Martial Spirit/Aura of Triumph or Aura of Chaos, and Inspire Courage is potent for sure. Warblade does give access to Iron Heart however along with aforementioned Tiger Claw. Both Warblade and Crusader are good choices; you can't go wrong with either.

Thanks for that, I actually just found the thread that PWF mentioned below. Why would my Initiator level automatically be three?

You take half of non martial classes and add that to your martial classes to get initiator level. In this case, Bard 4/Warblade 1 equals initiator level 3 (half of Bard level = 2 + 1 for Warblade).
#7
cravin
Apr 22, 2008 16:43:45
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=816095

That's the Inspire Courage thread you're looking for I think. Tons of great information in that thread.

The Crusader option vs. Warblade is just as good, but in a different way. TWF with Furious Counterstrike, Martial Spirit/Aura of Triumph or Aura of Chaos, and Inspire Courage is potent for sure. Warblade does give access to Iron Heart however along with aforementioned Tiger Claw. Both Warblade and Crusader are good choices; you can't go wrong with either.

You take half of non martial classes and add that to your martial classes to get initiator level. In this case, Bard 4/Warblade 1 equals initiator level 3 (half of Bard level = 2 + 1 for Warblade).

Thanks for that. : 3

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cravin Apr 22, 2008 12:56:17	I remember there Being a Thread about bards who had the party deal assloads of extra damage with their singing If anyone could link me to this thread I would appreciate it. The party I will be joining soon basically lacks an Alpha strike character, however, they also lack a face. The closest thing they have to a face is the artificer with a highish cha (18 I think) This got me to thinking, is it possible to Create a bard, that not only is the face of the party, but double threats as the alpha strike? With a 3/4 BaB I am unsure, but I would really like to hear some Ideas. I will be scouring my books and this forum for the added damage from bard, and a way to make this build. Currently the party is fourth level, but I am going to try and make this character to 20 without dying, So I want to be as optimized as possible at fourth level (Hard I know) but continue to optimize as I proceed. Thanks all = D
#2 lordofleapin Apr 22, 2008 13:30:22	Words of Creation and Draconic Inspiration are two key feats that pave the way to add a lot of extra damage. Song of the White Raven would allow you to stack Crusader or Warblade levels for determining the power of Inspire Courage. Also the Crusader/Warblade levels and maneuvers would make you far more resilient than a straight Bard. Both of those classes have access to Diplomacy as well. Of course Able Learner could take care of any other social skills. I would think it would be quite easy to make a melee Bard that could still be a good face.
#3 Wyvernhand Apr 22, 2008 13:31:31	Probably the best thing you can do is Bard4/Warblade16. Important feats are going to be Song of the White Raven (ToB), Song of the Heart (ECS), and Dragonfire Inspiration (DragMagic). Everything past that is your choice. Song of the White Raven has 2 effects. 1st is that your bard and warblade levels stack to calculate your bardic music effect. This is important because it gives you higher level Inspire Courage (which gets swapped to Dragonfire). The 2nd effect is that as long as you are in a White Raven Stance, you can begin a bardic music effect as a swift action (instead of standard). This one is only really good if you stop singing...most of the time you don't need to. Next, take 2WF feats (TWF, GTWF, ITWF) and wield a pair of shortswords or daggers. Focus primarily on Tiger Claw maneuvers like Pouncing Charge, Sudden Leap, and Xing Mongoose with a side emphasis on Diamond Mind and Ironheart for defenses. If you start Bard4 before going Bard4/Warblade1, you'll start right away with an IL of 3 which means you can choose 1st OR 2nd level maneuvers even though you can only choose level 1 stances (the charge one from WR is a pretty good start). Finally, pimp out your gear. Get weapons that synergize well with TWF. A pair of +1 Wounding shortswords would be excellent, otherwise holy and collision are nice 2ndary choices. Get some bardic gear like a Badge of Valor(MIC) and a Vest of Legends (DMGII). Don't bother with +cha items, since you aren't really relying on bardic spellcasting past Inspirational Boost. After that, just get the standard melee gear like Boots of Speed, Cloak of Resistance, +str, +con, +dex items, and maybe some light armor like a chain shirt or Mithril breastplate. You'll be a fast and deadly killer with that gear and build, and you're whole team will benefit. IF you do have the cha to support it, a single level of Marshall from PHBII would be ok if you don't mind giving up level 9 maneuvers at level 20. The Motivate Dex aura will give your whole team a huge bonus to initiative that is needed to really get the drop on someone. That would be more worth it at low levels, with less effect at higher levels.
#4 playswithfire Apr 22, 2008 13:49:53	I think this is what you're thinking of http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-795369.html
#5 cravin Apr 22, 2008 14:03:35	Probably the best thing you can do is Bard4/Warblade16. Important feats are going to be Song of the White Raven (ToB), Song of the Heart (ECS), and Dragonfire Inspiration (DragMagic). Everything past that is your choice. Song of the White Raven has 2 effects. 1st is that your bard and warblade levels stack to calculate your bardic music effect. This is important because it gives you higher level Inspire Courage (which gets swapped to Dragonfire). The 2nd effect is that as long as you are in a White Raven Stance, you can begin a bardic music effect as a swift action (instead of standard). This one is only really good if you stop singing...most of the time you don't need to. Next, take 2WF feats (TWF, GTWF, ITWF) and wield a pair of shortswords or daggers. Focus primarily on Tiger Claw maneuvers like Pouncing Charge, Sudden Leap, and Xing Mongoose with a side emphasis on Diamond Mind and Ironheart for defenses. If you start Bard4 before going Bard4/Warblade1, you'll start right away with an IL of 3 which means you can choose 1st OR 2nd level maneuvers even though you can only choose level 1 stances (the charge one from WR is a pretty good start). Finally, pimp out your gear. Get weapons that synergize well with TWF. A pair of +1 Wounding shortswords would be excellent, otherwise holy and collision are nice 2ndary choices. Get some bardic gear like a Badge of Valor(MIC) and a Vest of Legends (DMGII). Don't bother with +cha items, since you aren't really relying on bardic spellcasting past Inspirational Boost. After that, just get the standard melee gear like Boots of Speed, Cloak of Resistance, +str, +con, +dex items, and maybe some light armor like a chain shirt or Mithril breastplate. You'll be a fast and deadly killer with that gear and build, and you're whole team will benefit. IF you do have the cha to support it, a single level of Marshall from PHBII would be ok if you don't mind giving up level 9 maneuvers at level 20. The Motivate Dex aura will give your whole team a huge bonus to initiative that is needed to really get the drop on someone. That would be more worth it at low levels, with less effect at higher levels. Thanks for that, I actually just found the thread that PWF mentioned below. Why would my Initiator level automatically be three? I think this is what you're thinking of http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-795369.html Actually I found this before I came back ehre to check for replies. This thread ISN'T the one I am looking for, but it has basically the same information + Tome of battle stuff. Right now I am thinking about going Bard 4/ Warblade 16 as the thread and Wyverhand suggest. However, I may give up Warblade for crusader, for the flavor and self sufficiency of the Crusader, which to me is more important than maximum damage. Then I suppose one could argue you already ARW self sufficient if everything dies before it can hurt you. Anyway, thanks guys, still looking for that other post. I remember someone in it says something about 5 flying pirate bards that rule ebberon when they unite, or something. iunno.
#6 lordofleapin Apr 22, 2008 14:22:59	http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=816095 That's the Inspire Courage thread you're looking for I think. Tons of great information in that thread. The Crusader option vs. Warblade is just as good, but in a different way. TWF with Furious Counterstrike, Martial Spirit/Aura of Triumph or Aura of Chaos, and Inspire Courage is potent for sure. Warblade does give access to Iron Heart however along with aforementioned Tiger Claw. Both Warblade and Crusader are good choices; you can't go wrong with either. Thanks for that, I actually just found the thread that PWF mentioned below. Why would my Initiator level automatically be three? You take half of non martial classes and add that to your martial classes to get initiator level. In this case, Bard 4/Warblade 1 equals initiator level 3 (half of Bard level = 2 + 1 for Warblade).
#7 cravin Apr 22, 2008 16:43:45	http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=816095 That's the Inspire Courage thread you're looking for I think. Tons of great information in that thread. The Crusader option vs. Warblade is just as good, but in a different way. TWF with Furious Counterstrike, Martial Spirit/Aura of Triumph or Aura of Chaos, and Inspire Courage is potent for sure. Warblade does give access to Iron Heart however along with aforementioned Tiger Claw. Both Warblade and Crusader are good choices; you can't go wrong with either. You take half of non martial classes and add that to your martial classes to get initiator level. In this case, Bard 4/Warblade 1 equals initiator level 3 (half of Bard level = 2 + 1 for Warblade). Thanks for that. : 3