I'm working on a Fey'ri character who might or might not turn out as a Druid and I was wondering if.. Well, scratch that.. I will not play a Druid, but I might be able to get my hands on the Druid ability to Shapeshift (PHB2) through playing a Ranger Variant with Druid Wild Shape Ability and then swapping that for Shapeshift or whatever.. Anyhow, it's beside the point how I get a hold of it.
Anyways.. Assume that I use the Fey'ri ability to Alter Self into a Crucian (MH 59) that has a Natural Armor of 8 and then after that Shapeshift into well.. basically anything. Would that mean keep the Natural Armor from my Humanoid shape and add the Shapeshifting bonus?
Also, one could take a Phaerlock which gives me the Feat Multiattack. Would that mean I could keep it when shifting to the Ferocius Slayer Form?
Now, of course, one doesn't have to be a Fey'ri to go down this path, but it's what's on the table for me so it's what im going with.
Any thoughts on how to optimize this if it works? Been so long since I played I am a bit rusty myself.
(The Alter Self-thread seems to be semi-dead or I'd have looked this up myself, but what would i get for AS into a Goliath?)
They've changed Wild Shape so many freakin' times that it is hard to remember what you keep and lose, especially when you start talking about the alternative versions...
Goliaths themselves don't get an increase in natural weapon dice. Powerful build is a special quality, and wouldn't be granted by Alter Self, anyway.
Thank you PhaedrusXY. I always appreciate your replies in whatever thread they're in. Do you know anything about the previous two questions in the original post?
They've changed Wild Shape so many freakin' times that it is hard to remember what you keep and lose, especially when you start talking about the alternative versions...
But they've never touched the Shapeshift ability for alternative druids, right?
Swapping the Ranger ACF (Wildshape) with the Druid ACF (Shapeshift) is a thing that you must clear with your DM. Whether it's strong... I don't know. Rangers don't get all the buff spells of Druids to make Shapeshift stronger. As it is, it might turn out weak due to lack of items.
If you Alter Self into a Crucian, and then Wildshape, your armour bonus from AS will be lost.
If you Alter Self into a Crucian and then Shapeshift, you will keep your armour bonus, and gain an enhancement bonus to it. (IIRC)
If you Wildshape into anything, and then Alter Self into a crucian (or troggy) you can keep the physical stats of the animal but gain the NA of the Crucian. Unfortunately, depending on the Wildshape version and your DM, you will have to take off your items first, and then put them on again.
However, why not just take advantage of the fact that you are a Fey'ri: A frickin' outsider. Alter Self into other outsiders. It's clearly stronger than a crucian. You might use Enlarge Person and AS into the Dwarven Ancestor for a whopping +18 to NA.
Even better, wildshape into a large animal and THEN AS.
However, there is a catch, and a big one: Depending on the version of Fauxlymorph, you will lose all your racial SLAs (together with other racial traits) when wildshaping. Possibly NOT when shapeshifting. Ask your DM about this. It doesn't quite seem fair, because you don't gain any SLAs, but IIRC it is like that in several versions.
However, why not just take advantage of the fact that you are a Fey'ri: A frickin' outsider. Alter Self into other outsiders. It's clearly stronger than a crucian. You might use Enlarge Person and AS into the Dwarven Ancestor for a whopping +18 to NA.
Good catch. I wasn't really paying attention. He can't turn into a Crucian, anyway. He has to AS into other outsiders.
Even better, wildshape into a large animal and THEN AS.
He doesn't have to Enlarge himself in any way. You can turn into a creature within 1 size category of your own with AS.
Good catch. I wasn't really paying attention. He can't turn into a Crucian, anyway. He has to AS into other outsiders.
Only one problem tho.. The text on the Fey'ri racial Spell-like ability "Alter Self" says: "Fey'ri can use alter self at will to assume any humanoid form, and remain in that form indefinitely"
This leads me to believe that I can't really turn into an Outsider at all, even tho I am one to begin with and I am stuck with choosing races such as "Crucian"
He doesn't have to Enlarge himself in any way. You can turn into a creature within 1 size category of your own with AS.
As with above, seeing as I have yet to find a single Large Humanoid race with 5HD or less, that is not an option. (Although, it would be friggen sweet!)
Only one problem tho.. The text on the Fey'ri racial Spell-like ability "Alter Self" says: "Fey'ri can use alter self at will to assume any humanoid form, and remain in that form indefinitely"
This leads me to believe that I can't really turn into an Outsider at all, even tho I am one to begin with and I am stuck with choosing races such as "Crucian"
As with above, seeing as I have yet to find a single Large Humanoid race with 5HD or less, that is not an option. (Although, it would be friggen sweet!)
Ah, I thought you were casting AS. I forgot they got it as a SLA. Was Feyri printed in a 3.0 book? If so, that's probably why it says humanoid. IIRC, in 3.0 AS always turned you into a humanoid, no matter what you started as.
Ah, I thought you were casting AS. I forgot they got it as a SLA. Was Feyri printed in a 3.0 book? If so, that's probably why it says humanoid. IIRC, in 3.0 AS always turned you into a humanoid, no matter what you started as.
It was printed in the book "Races of Faerun" and i do believe it is 3.0 because of the demonic ability "Damage reduction 10/+1" they can choose. So, what you are saying is that the RAW is that they can't change into, let's say, a Sun Elf but they can turn into a Dwarven Ancestor or whatever? Even tho the fluff text behind the ability says they often shift into elves?
It was printed in the book "Races of Faerun" and i do believe it is 3.0 because of the demonic ability "Damage reduction 10/+1" they can choose. So, what you are saying is that the RAW is that they can't change into, let's say, a Sun Elf but they can turn into a Dwarven Ancestor or whatever? Even tho the fluff text behind the ability says they often shift into elves?
Well... if this is in a 3.0 game, then use it as-is. If it is a 3.5 game, you have to convert it, and I don't know if there is an official 3.5 update for that book. Elves with the Otherwordly feat are outsiders, so that could be what the Feyri shifts into instead of "normal" elves, if you wanted to go that route. Or the DM could go with the text and say that they can only turn into humanoids, which given that it is a SLA and might not work exactly like the spell it is based on, is fine.
Well... if this is in a 3.0 game, then use it as-is. If it is a 3.5 game, you have to convert it, and I don't know if there is an official 3.5 update for that book. Elves with the Otherwordly feat are outsiders, so that could be what the Feyri shifts into instead of "normal" elves, if you wanted to go that route. Or the DM could go with the text and say that they can only turn into humanoids, which given that it is a SLA and might not work exactly like the spell it is based on, is fine.
Well, that pretty much settles every question I had on the subject. Thank you for all your help. I appreciate yours and brainpiercing's reply greatly. We're running a 3.5 adventure/campaign but just in case, I think i'll go with the Spell-like ability as it's written. I don't want to completely scare my new DM away with all kinds of funky crap before I even start playing
Oh, and if you know this from the top of your head, if I take the "Necropolitan" template which changes my type to [Undead], do I gain all the benefits for being undead? Other than that, im peachy! ;)
Oh, and if you know this from the top of your head, if I take the "Necropolitan" template which changes my type to [Undead], do I gain all the benefits for being undead? Other than that, im peachy! ;)
Yes, you do. I don't remember which type is over the other on the "tree", though, Undead or Outsider. There was a list of which types "trump" the others in Savage Species, and both of those were near the top.