So our DM is running a 30th level campaign out of one of the magazines and I figured hey, this is as good a time as any to play that Warblade I've always wanted. Unfortunately, I can't think of what to take for the last 9 levels. I threw werebear in there for the big STR and CON bonuses, large size and because it seemed fun at the time, but the more I look at it the less attractive those six underwhelming animal HD and +2 LA are.
Since the last time I played a melee class was 2nd edition I am looking for advice on what to fill those last levels with. The campaign is undead heavy, but we already have 2 non-optimized negative energy clerics that have that aspect well in hand, and the 4th member is a pretty well-built sneak-attack focused rogue/swordsage with Truedeath Crystals.
Here's what I have so far:
Human Warblade 20 (keep) / Lion Totem Barbarian 1 (keep) / Werebear 6 / Warshaper 1 (or more) / LA +2 (Afflicted)
The +16 STR and +8 CON from the werebear (plus easy entry into Warshaper) are attractive, but I'm sure there is something better out there. At least 3 levels of Warshaper for the stat boosts and reach would be nice, so I'm not opposed to playing a Changeling or similar. I'm open to any suggestions on classes/templates, ideally ones that raise STR and CON or boost size and reach. Pretty much anything WOTC is allowed except psionics, Dragon, Incarnum and Eberron (we play FR, so no cross-setting material). Stat distribution is a little strong at 80 point-buy, 1 for 1 up to 18.
Thanks in advance!
-TB
They are all +1 LA templates and all good for frontliners
With Primeval, one level of monk and one level of fist of the forest, you can end up with 40ish Con, and 60ish AC.
also, for a similar feel, check out primeval PrC from Frostburn. Huge gains to str and con, turn into an animal form, etc. There is a loss of int, though.
With Primeval, one level of monk and one level of fist of the forest, you can end up with 40ish Con, and 60ish AC.
If your DM will let you wield a weapon while in Dire Ape form then this is an excellent suggestion as you will get reach, huge str + con, and a crazily high ac fairly easily.
How about;
Wildshape Ranger 5 / Nature's Warrior 5 / Warshaper 3 / Lion Totem Barbarian 1 / Primeval 10 / Monk 1 / Fist-o-Forest 1 / Warblade 4
You still have IL 14-17 as a warblade, so you can grab top-end manouvers and stances. Gains dex, con and wis to AC and can be wildshaped into primeval form 24 hours a day. If your DM is generous you might be able to be constantly wildshaped and wear gear/armour/etc as a Dire Ape without having to take it off and put it back on between wildshape uses (given it's a 30th level game I don't think this will break things too much!).
**edit;
For more warblade how about Ranger1/Monk1/Barbarian1/Warblade20/Fist-o-Forest1/Primeval6
Will need lots of wildling clasps and fast wildshaping feats since you only get 6 minutes of primeval form per use, but has way more warblade features.
Spellstitiched Necropolitan Half-Minotaur Lesser Aasimar Saint (total +3 LA)
Lion Totem Barbarian 1 / Paladin of Freedom 3 / Marshal 3 / Warblade 20
Stats with a +6 Belt of Magnificence, and Tomes/Wishes for Str/Wis/Cha
STR 44 (18 base, +12 minotaur, +6 belt, +4 levels, +4 inherent)
DEX 12 (8 base, -2 minotaur, +6 belt)
CON --
INT 22 (18 base, -2 minotaur, +6 belt)
WIS 34 (18 base, +2 aasimar, +2 saint, +6 belt, +1 levels, +5 inherent)
CHA 36 (18 base, +2 aasimar, +4 saint, +6 belt, +1 levels, +5 inherent)
Has a ton of features but here are some of the good ones;
Pounce
DR 10/evil plus DR5/magic and silver
Immune to cold, acid, electricity, petrification, mind-affecting powers/spells
Fire resistance 10
Tounges
Insight bonus +Wis to AC (+12) in any armour
SR 23
+2 profane bonus to saves and another +13 from divine grace
Variety of SLA up to 6th level from spellstitched
Large size (reach)
Fast Healing 10
At-will double strength Magic Circle vs Evil
At-will Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
Extra damage vs evil creatures (plus more extra vs undead or outsiders)
Any evil creature that strikes a saint with a natural weapon takes holy damage as if hit by the saint's attack
Marshal Auras (suggest Motivate Dexterity for +13 initiative to whole party, plus one other depending on personal preference).
Suggested key feats and gear;
Extra Rage since you only get 1/day from levels
Unholy Toughness not sure I got the name right, but the one that gives +cha modifier to HP per hd. This effectively make you 36 Con for HP purposes.
Slippers of Battledancing add your +13 cha modifier to attack rolls
Monk's Belt for another +13 insight bonus to AC
*note - take all the warblade levels last for higher initiator level
Hope this provides some help even if you go for something different :D
Weezel, I love your second idea! It would actually fit perfectly with this group, since our two other characters are (presumably) neutral clerics that specialize in undead. That being said, I don't know how my DM will feel about a Necropolitan Saint (he's really shy about allowing content from the BOED as it is). The whole "act in a manner consistent with the Exalted path" thing may create some tension if my party is constantly raising an army of shambling corpses to do our dirty work. I'll see if I can find some way to make this justifiable; I may have to tweak it a little to minimize involuntary knee-jerk book-throwing.
Also, where is Half-Minotaur from? The only one I can find reference to is in Dragon, which we cannot use. It seems like a fun template, is it from an official book somewhere?
-TB
Unholy Toughness not sure I got the name right, but the one that gives +cha modifier to HP per hd. This effectively make you 36 Con for HP purposes.
Unholy Toughness is a special ability possessed by a few types of undead-- it isn't something you can take as a feat.
Half-Minotaur has a good chance of being shot down by the DM as well. It's Dragon content and it makes the feral template look like it should be a -1 LA if you interpret it as granting the static stat bonuses listed and size increases to stats. :P
Honestly, were-bear isn't bad as far as stat increases go. It's decent for its level adjustment and the stat bonuses should ensure you hit just about anything. The animal hit dice are still contributing to your maneuver level, so you could easily be starting with an IL of 5 at Warblade 1 (barbarian 1/bear 6/warshaper 1).
That said-- you likely won't have any problems hitting anyway and if you want to boost that further you can always take a single level of bard (or better, Warrior Skald) and the Song of the White Raven feat. With 20 levels of Warblade and the right items, that will get you +6 or more attack/damage-- a bonus which will also apply to those undead the clerics will be picking up. You can also pick up some of the items mentioned earlier like the Slippers of Battle Dancing. Combined with a weapon that has two or three martial disciplines on it, you should be at +12 or more above your base attack bonus even before stat boosts and enhancement bonuses.
For your other class levels, I would seriously consider introducing some of the other Tome of Battle classes into the mix. I'm also a fan of racial classes (particularly human paragon) in epic, since it lets you pick up epic feats and additional stat bonuses with almost no penalty. For the Tome of Battle classes, you could well have a IL of 17 by the time you pick up your first class level.
Something like Bard 1/Barbarian 1/Warblade 20/Crusader 1/Master of Nine 5/Swordsage 2 for instance should let you get every 9th level maneuver in the game plus a fair number of the 8th level stances. It would really just need tweaked in order to pick up any maneuver that you want. If you don't want to spend the feats on Master of Nine, Bloodclaw Master or another martial adept prestige class would do just as well. (Though it would impact qualifying for high level swordsage only maneuvers.)
Unholy Toughness is a special ability possessed by a few types of undead-- it isn't something you can take as a feat.
Are you sure? I remember reading it as a feat somewhere but admittedly it could have been some homebrew version in a random thread somewhere.... alternatively are there any low LA undead with the bonus hp that could be used as a base?
Are you sure? I remember reading it as a feat somewhere but admittedly it could have been some homebrew version in a random thread somewhere.... alternatively are there any low LA undead with the bonus hp that could be used as a base?
I'm fairly sure. The lowest level adjustment on an undead with Unholy Toughness is probably the +5 on dry lich, and you need to be a 10th level Walker in the Waste to use that template.
I'm fairly sure. The lowest level adjustment on an undead with Unholy Toughness is probably the +5 on dry lich, and you need to be a 10th level Walker in the Waste to use that template.
Ok so what about if you did that, then retrained all the Walker in the Waste levels into something else (like warblade?) ?
Ok so what about if you did that, then retrained all the Walker in the Waste levels into something else (like warblade?) ?
So long as the DM allows class retraining, it might be possible. You just need the Walker in the Waste levels to qualify for the Sere Rite, once you've gone through that it might be self perpetuating. It depends on the DM though really.
So long as the DM allows class retraining, it might be possible. You just need the Walker in the Waste levels to qualify for the Sere Rite, once you've gone through that it might be self perpetuating. It depends on the DM though really.
Actually this probably isn't usefull for the OP but I was just curious as to if that would work RAW :D
If so, you would not have any level adjustment out of it, like how you don't suddenly gain +3 LA after going through Dragon Disciple.
RAW, seeing as it is a capstone ability for it, wouldn't you count it as a transformational class, as you are gaining the abilities of the template throughout the regular workings of the prc?
If so, you would not have any level adjustment out of it, like how you don't suddenly gain +3 LA after going through Dragon Disciple.
You actually don't get most of what dry lich gives you-- the natural armor isn't all there, the HD and Unholy Toughness definitely not, the Con drain, the turn resistance, the fast healing, not all of the immunities, the stat and skill bonuses.
Honestly, all you get out of Walker in the Waste is the dessicating touch and a small portion of the natural armor and immunities. Plus you get other abilities that a dry lich doesn't naturally. I don't think the class is intended to eliminate the level adjustment, just qualify you to take the template in the first place.
For a dragon disciple, they get almost everything a half-dragon does over the course of the class and that is just about all. Though actually, thinking about it, that might be another good option for the original poster if he wants stat bonuses.
Going with something like an orc Warblade 20/Duskblade 1/Dragon Disciple 4 should get him about +8 Str and still leave him with another 5 levels to play with. Orc Paragon on top of that would bump that another +2. Another option to consider, particularly once he's into epic levels would be War Hulk-- so long as you're not interested in mental skills, a Half-Ogre Warblade 20/War Hulk 8 would have an ungodly amount of strength. More than the were-bear though with the same level adjustment and a full 20 BAB.
Were-bear does have the advantage of granting better natural armor, requiring fewer hit dice, giving natural attacks, and a few other things though. And so long as you're taking the animal hit dice in epic levels, you are still getting full base attack bonus actually. Possibly more-- technically speaking, the epic base attack bonus limits don't affect racial hit dice.