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| #1thehumandynamoFeb 15, 2008 14:10:02 | Entry Requirements: Alignment: Any nongood Skills: Intimidate 4 ranks, Knowledge (The Planes) 4 ranks Feats: Any Metamagic Feat Spellcasting: Able to cast 2nd-level arcane spells. Special: Able to bind a 2nd-level vestige. The Pros
The Cons
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| #2thehumandynamoFeb 15, 2008 14:11:57 |
Keep in mind, that depending on which Spell Casting Class you use as an entry into the Anima Mage prestige class may alter how important your stats are.
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| #3thehumandynamoFeb 15, 2008 14:12:30 |
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| #4thehumandynamoFeb 15, 2008 14:13:27 |
Feats will be broken down into General, Metamagic, Supernatural Ability, and Combat. For further feat reference for binders or specific rolls you can fill, check out this post in the Consolidated Binder's Handbook. General Feats:
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| #5thehumandynamoFeb 15, 2008 14:13:59 | This section will have a listing of classes and PrCs that are useful to the Anima Mage, along with builds that have been posted. Discussionon on Anima Mage Gish Builds Anima Mage Triple Threat Another Anima Mage Triple Threat build and Late Game power build Bloodline and Apostle of the Green Lady builds for crazy casting/binding ability. Apostle of the Green Lady PrC |
| #6thehumandynamoFeb 15, 2008 14:14:37 | This section will largely be reference as there are several sources for this subject in the various binder guides. It is also somewhat subject to personal opinion as people each have vestiges they favor and dislike.
Vestiges by Jameswilliamogle 1st Level Amon 1st (DC 20, can't also bind Leraje among others) Bad Pact: become surly and irritable, must try to save against all beneficial spells as well Darkvision (60') Fire Breath* (d6 / level, 10' / level to 50', Ref 1/2) Ram Attack (d6 + 1.5 x Str, +d8 on charge) Aym 1st (DC15) Bad Pact: become greedy, give a coin to every dwarf you meet w/in 10 rounds Dwarven Step (full movement in all armor) Improved Sunder Medium Armor Prof Halo of Fire (d6 damage to enemy if struck, d6 damage for a touch attack) Fire Resistance 10 Ruinous Attack (double damage from sunder) Leraje 1st (DC 15, can't bind Amon) Bad Pact: act reserved, cannot attack any elves +4 to Hide Low-Light Vision Precise Shot Weapon Proficiency (all martial bows) Ricochet (adjacent targets, single roll, normal damage, SA/SS counts once) Naberius 1st (DC 15, 4 ranks in Bluff or Knowledge or Profession skill) Bad Pact: any chance given, must talk about something for level rounds, berating those who would take over Disguise Self (as spell, standard action) Faster Ability Healing (1 damage / round, 1 drain in all abilities / hour) Persuasive Words* (30', Command as spell, Suggestion at 14th, Will neg.) Silver Toungue (can take 10 on any Bluff or Diplomacy check, even if threatened, and as a standard action and don't suffer -10 for rushed check) Naberius's Skills (pick skills = Con that can't be used untrained, and can use them) Ronove 1st (DC 15, must draw seal in soil under the sky) Bad Pact: must prove worth every chance; can't eat or drink Feather Fall (as spell) Sprint (10' enhancement bonus to speed) Improved Unarmed Strike (damage dice as monk, but no flurry) Melee count as Magic for DR, Magic + Cold Iron at 7th Far Hand (1. Swift Action, 10' / level, move 5' / level, Medium, Str = level; 2.* Standard Action, d6 damage + Bull Rush + 2, Str = level) 2nd Level Dahlver-nar 2nd (DC 17) Bad Pact: act OCD, cannot use anything requiring Concentration Mad Soul (Immunities: Wis damage / drain, Confusion effects, Insanity) Maddening Moan* (30' emanation, daze 1 round, Will neg.) Natural Armor Bonus (1/2 Con) Shield Self (10'/level, Will neg., split damage between target and self) Haagenti 2nd (DC17, must speak giant) Bad Pact: must defer to all more beutiful creatures (bowing, etc.) Confusing Touch* (confusion 1 round / 3 levels or Maze at 19th level, Will neg.) Immunity to Transformation (Polymorph or Petrification, unless desired) Shield Prof. (including Tower Shield) Weapon Prof. (battleaxe, greataxe, hand axe, throwing axe) Malphus 2nd (DC 15) Bad Pact: easy to fall in love (any compliment), use poison every chance Bird's Eye Viewing (clairvoyent bird, uses it's observation, your interpretation) Invisibility* (full-round, standard action at 5th, move action 10th, swift 15th, duration =level) Poison Use (never poison self) Sudden Strike (d6, +d6 per 4 levels) Savnok 2nd (DC 20; must have stolen something for which I've made no ammends) Bad Pact: act headstrong; when you don anything that improves AC, must not remove it Call Armor (regular Full Plate, increases w/ level) Heavy Armor Proficiency DR (1 / Piercing, +1 / 4 levels, Piercing & Magic at 13th) Move Ally (5' / 2 levels) 3rd Level Andromalius 3rd (DC 20, must give 2 items Andromalius carries) Bad Pact: can't steal, can't deal w/ stolen items, become like a jester Tasha's Hideous Laughter* (CL=BL, save allowed each round) Locate Item (100' / BL, must be well known or clearly visualized) See Invisibility (CL=BL) Sneak Attack (2d6 + d6/5 levels past 5th) Fogalor 3rd (DC 20, must use liquid during binding) Bad Pact: act depressed, must say a few words for the departed after combat Aura of Sadness (adjacent radius, -2 to attack, saves, and skills, suppress as a standard action) Fogalor's Breath* (standard action, 30', 1 creature, fort or blinded 1 round) Lightning Strike (3d6 + d6 / 3 BL after 5th, 10' / BL, standard action, Ref 1/2, works anywhere) waterbreathing Karsus 3rd (DC 25, Kn Arcana or Spellcraft 5 ranks and can't be w/in a magic effect) Bad Pact: become arrogant, make Bluff or Intimidate checks instead of Diplomacy Heavy Magic (magic item DC +2) Karsus's Sense (detect magic +2 rounds) Karsus's Will (can use spell trigger items of Wizard = to BL) Karsus's Touch (touch, dispel magic, bonus = BL) Paimon 3rd (DC 20) Bad Pact: must dance (1/2 speed) when hearing music, act bold Spring Attack* +4 Dex Weapon Finnesse & Wpn Prof (S. Sword, Rapier only) Whirlwind Attack 4th Level Agares 4th (DC 22, bind on earth or unworked stone) Bad Pact: only speak the truth, hate untruth Earth and Air Mastery (+1 to hit & damage if both touch ground, air creatures -1 to hit you) Earthshaking Step* (10' radius, if touching ground or connected to ground, Ref or prone, doesn't affect you or companion) Elemental Companion (summon a single earch elemental, once per hour, improves w/ level) Fear Immunity True Speach (understand, speak, write language of any creature w/in 30', if its strange, must hear it first) Andras 4th (DC 22) Bad Pact: become emotionless, must withdraw from battle dropping everything w/in 10 rounds, can't attack for d4 rounds) Sure Blows (Imp Crit w/ all weapons) Sow Discord* (Will, enemy must attack ally w/in reach, 5' / 2 level range) Lance, Longsword, Rapier proficiency Mount (full-round, 1/day, Heavy Warhorse w/ Saddle and lance, 1 h / BL) +8 Ride Smite Good or Evil* (Cha to attack, BL to damage) Buer 4th (DC 20, must be bound outdoors) Bad Pact: absent-mindedness, first melee attack must be non-lethal, no coup de grace Track Immunity to disease, binding removes diseases, allys w/in 30' gain Delay Disease Knowledge (+4 on Heal, Survival, Kn: Nature, can used untrained) Healing (1 pt per round as std action+10 a full round action and *, its positive energy) Fast Healing 1 (increases @ 13, 16, 19) Eurynome 4th (DC 21, can't bind Amon) Bad Pact: attack only after allies, become paranoid and ungrateful DR 2 / lawful Waterwalk (as spell) Poison Blood (creatures that bite take d6 damage, fort negates, more later) Animal Friend (all animals have friendly attitude) Eurynome's Maul (+1 Large Warhammer, better w/ level) Tenebrous 4th (DC 21, must bind in the deepest darkness) Bad Pact: act as though I've lost something, must not act 1st in combat Turn Undead* (cleric level = BL) Deeper Darkness (CL=BL, as spell, can increase or decrease 10' as move action) See in Darkness (every kind) Vessel of Emptiness (flicker 1/day, 2 @ 13, 3 @ 19) Touch of the Void* (cold energy, d8 + d8 / 4 levels past 7th, 1 attack, full round @ 11th) Level 5 Acerak 5th (DC 25, need to use a reusable gem during binding) Bad Pact: must sieze power when available Detect Undead (CL = BL) Hide from Undead Immune: Cold, Electricity Undead Healing (either pos or neg energy heals) Speak w/ Dead (CL = BL) Paralyzing Touch* (1/2 BL, save each turn as a full round action) Balam 5th (DC 25, deal 1 point damage) Bad Pact: must spit on the ground of a holy place, distrust clergymen Balam's Cunning* (can reroll 1 attack, save, skill check) Icy Glare (2d6 cold damage, Will) Weapon Finnesse Precience (+1/4 BL to initiative, Ref, and AC) Dantalion 5th (DC 25) Bad Pact: act aloof and use stately gestures, must read thoughts any leader w/in 100' Awe of Dantalion* (move action, any creature that sees can't target you w/ a hostile action) Dantalion Knows (+8 to all Knowledge checks) Read Thoughts (full-round action, as spell, 5' / BL) Thought Travel* (standard action, can move to anywhere you can see 5' / BL) Geryon 5th (DC 25, 5 ranks in Kn religion or planes) Bad Pact: trust everyone, can't sense motive or detect thoughts Acidic Gaze (30' radius, 2d6 damage, gaze attack rules, will neg) See in Darkness (all, including deeper darkness) All-Around Vision (+4 spot & search, no benefits to being flanked for opponents, gaze avoidance penalties) Swift Flight* (1 round, 60', perfect, swift action) Otiax 5th (DC 25) Bad Pact: become uncomfortable in locked rooms, when locked items are around, must unlock when key is presented Unlock* (standard action, automatic if DC < BL x 2) Open (10' / BL, as Open/Close) Combat Reflexes Air Blast (up to 10', 1 per attack, 2d6 damage no Str, AoO's allowed, touch attacks) 6th Level Chupoclops 6th (DC 25, must use tomb soil w/ binding, can't bind Amon) Bad Pact: act pessimistic, must fail all fear saves and morale penalty effects Aura of Despair (10' radius, -2 to attacks, checks, saves, weapon damage) Ghost Touch on all melee attacks Pounce Soulsense (as blindsense and deathwatch, living creatures only, 10' radius) Bite (d4 for medium, add Str) Ethereal Watcher* (as ethereal jaunt, ends after taking any action) Haures 6th (DC 25) Bad Pact: act eccentric, if disbelieve an illusion, may not enter that area Phantasmal Killer* (as spell, 10' / BL) Mind Blank (as spell, suppressable) Incorporeal Movement (can move through any terrain w/o penalty, enemies, not walls or solid bariers) Major Image* (as spell, CL = BL) Ipos 6th (DC 26, 5 ranks in Kn Arcana and Kn Religion or Kn Planes) Bad Pact: must educate the unenlightened' Cold Iron Claws (d6 for med, cold iron) True Seeing* (swift action, 1 round) Rend Planar Attenutation (protection from any single plane) Ipos's Influence (+1 DC for all abilities from bound Vestiges) Shax 6th (DC 26, must draw w/in sight of a pond or larger body of water) Bad Pact: become stingy, particularly about land, requires service or tax for use of territory Immunity Electricity Freedom of Movement* (self only, 1 round duration) Storm Strike (swift action, 1 attack, +d6 electic & +d6 sonic damage) Swim Speed (+8 to swim checks, can take 10 on swim, can auto-move, can "run" underwater) Zagan 6th (DC 25, must kowtow during binding) Bad Pact: become domineering, must slay all snakes and snakelike beings, must deface any deific snake representations Improved Grapple (considered Large when grappling) Aversion* (Will, 20' radius, snakes & snake creatures) Scent Snake Bane (+2 to hit & +2d6 damage vs. snakes & snake creatures) Constrict (d8 x 1.5 Str + normal unarmed damage w/ successful grapple) 7th Level Eligor 7th (DC 30) Bad Pact: befriend outcasts, attack human, elf, dragon before others +4 Str +3 Natural Armor (4 @ 16, 5 @ 20) Heavy Armor Prof Ride-by Attack Spirited Charge Chromatic Strike (free action, +d6 fire, cold, acid or electricity) Marchosias 7th (DC 30, must have stolen something and never atoned) Bad Pact: act sly, must use death attack on surprised opponents Death Attack (as assasin) Fiery Retribution (+3d6 damage if target can use SA, SS, or Sk) +16 competance Hide & Move Silently Smoke Form* (as Gaseous Form, unlimited duration) 8th Level Halphax 8th (DC: 32, bind inside or corner of a structure) Bad Pact: act unashamed, must bow to any demands for hostages DR 10 / adamantine +16 Profession (Siege Engineer), Knowledge (architecture and engineering), can use untrained Secure Shelter* (as Secure Shelter, 1 at a time, 60', std action) Iron Wall* (as Wall of Iron, 1 min duration) Imprison (as Imprisonment, std action touch attack, Fort, d4 rounds between uses) Orthos 8th (DC 35, bind in bright illumination only) Bad Pact: whisper, hate darkness, must carry an illumination source Blindsight 30' Whispering Wind (as spell, CL=BL, standard action) Displacement (50%, true-seeing negates) Whirlwind Breath* (60' cone, d6 / BL, ref 1/2, fort or prone and knocked back d4 x 10' or to outside cone rad) |
| #7paradox-of-lifeFeb 15, 2008 22:07:24 | I disagree with Intel not being the primary stat. As an anima mage, it is exponentially greater to enter with a wizard, than sorcerer. For one, there isn't much sklll points to go around. Two: The sorcerer has a limited list, despite fiend blooded and other ways. With a wizard and their dynamic spell list, it is infinitely better when coupled with metamagic. Going up against some flayers and need to have mental projection? Chain a mind blank. Hell, you might be able to twin a Wish spell. As a sorcerer, you do not want spells like wish as part of your list. As a wizard, hey, you can get away with it. Talk about early entries into Anima mage, such as binder+improved binding. Provide a link to the Binder's handbook about vestiges that aid spellcasting? (Ex. Debuffers would like Falacors aura of sadness for the -2 to saves) |
| #8jameswilliamogleFeb 15, 2008 23:05:12 | Awesome! I'll definitely be adding this to the Consol. Binder Handbook when I next update it. Under races you should mention Bloodlines. RAW, both they'll advance 2 EBL per BL level (one from Binder, one from Anima Mage). EBL drives both the level of vestige and the number of vestiges you can bind, so its a pretty good deal (gets even more wicked with other Binder PrCs, but thats not for this compilation, I suppose). Under builds, some mention of the Warlock / Binder adancement with Anima Mage might be mentioned. I think the Cha >> Int is right, for the reasons listed, personally... |
| #9paradox-of-lifeFeb 15, 2008 23:46:03 | But for the truly optimized build, I think the entry with wiz is better. |
| #10thaosyr23Feb 16, 2008 0:04:21 | I'm for Int > Cha myself. There's lots of ways to boost cha checks, but boosting save dcs is harder (wizard obviously) Wizard just seems to fit better, mechanically and thematically with this prc. |
| #11jameswilliamogleFeb 16, 2008 9:02:43 | Well, I like to focus more on the Binder side than the spellcasting side, myself: I think there may be merits to both styles. |
| #12CantripNFeb 16, 2008 10:09:34 | You shoule probably mention the VERY easy early qualification on both sides. IIRC, you can enter this class at level 3, possibly even 2 if you have enough feats (but I don't see what it would advance on the Binder side, then). |
| #13thehumandynamoFeb 16, 2008 12:24:21 | Good stuff guys, I'll be updating the handbook more this weekend/week (getting ready for a mma fight next weekend so my time is kind of crunched right now). I'm planning on the early entry tricks, will talk about the sorcerer vs wizard under the builds, and plan to include the warlock stuff. I'll add the bit about Bloodlines under the classes section (though I'm still not entirely sure how it works). |
| #14epifreakFeb 16, 2008 13:20:50 | I disagree with Intel not being the primary stat. As an anima mage, it is exponentially greater to enter with a wizard, than sorcerer. For one, there isn't much sklll points to go around. Well, damn, try as I might, I couldn't refute this, even by trying to go triple threat with it (battle sorc/binder/anima mage/div crusader/tenebrius or MT). I had missed until recently the clause where div. crusader sucks the big one (one spell/level), so at least I learned something. Anyway, the only reason I could really think of for Cha entry would be like the hexblade, except that requires much too high a level. Can anyone think of any Cha class where this would be worthwhile? The synergy is too much to ignore. |
| #15jameswilliamogleFeb 16, 2008 16:45:03 | Well, damn, try as I might, I couldn't refute this, even by trying to go triple threat with it (battle sorc/binder/anima mage/div crusader/tenebrius or MT). I had missed until recently the clause where div. crusader sucks the big one (one spell/level), so at least I learned something. The problem I have with the non-Cha based Anima Mages is that Binders are pretty MAD already, in the same way Bards are. If that wasn't an issue, then its not as significant, of course. Totally dependent on starting stats, of course, and the build's focus. Oh, another couple builds: a bit of a triple threat: Binder 1 / Wizard 2 / Anima mage 10 / Ur-Priest 2 / Mystic Theurge 5 late game power: Binder 1 / Bard 6 / Anima Mage 2 / Sublime Chord 2 / Anima Mage 8 |
| #16bensanFeb 16, 2008 17:00:55 | I have to say that what appeals to me about Anima Mage is that it's a low-cost high-reward PrC whether you want to go primarily caster or primarily binder. Either way you can enter it with one "off" level (although with a primary binder it requires Precocious Apprentice cheesiness), enter early, and add sixth-level vestiges to a spellcaster or sixth-level spells (fifth-level spells if you don't want MAD) to a binder with kickin' metamagic in either case. The symmetry appeals to me. |
| #17jameswilliamogleFeb 16, 2008 17:13:42 | I have to say that what appeals to me about Anima Mage is that it's a low-cost high-reward PrC whether you want to go primarily caster or primarily binder. Either way you can enter it with one "off" level (although with a primary binder it requires Precocious Apprentice cheesiness), enter early, and add sixth-level vestiges to a spellcaster or sixth-level spells (fifth-level spells if you don't want MAD) to a binder with kickin' metamagic in either case. The symmetry appeals to me. Me too :D. |
| #18daergal_the_black_dupFeb 16, 2008 19:09:58 | I have to say that I agree that wizard is the way to go. A Charisma enhancing item, Circlet of Persuasion and Implements of Binding can be used to get your binding checks high enough even if your charisma is only middling good. (Would that my DM would let me take Nymph's Kiss for a non-good character.) Besides making a bad pact just means roleplaying your way through the bad influence. It can be a pain, but it also adds flavor. So you don't get the extra spellslot, but things still hum along nicely. First feats, Improved Binder is a must have. It lets you get in the class with only one level of Binder under your belt, and for that alone is made of win. As for what pacts are best, there is a dry spell after you get to fourth level vestiges, but here are my picks: 1st Level LERAJE--Binding DC Very Low Useful Powers:
This is the ultimate for those days when you need to be a blaster. Worth it for Precise Shot and Ricochet (note that Ricochet works with any ranged attack...Leraje may *like* bows, but Ricochet is not limited to them). Plus the very low binding DC makes it a great great choice for Exploit Vestige. 2nd Level None are really great. Dahlver Nar and Malphas have their uses. 3rd Level Focalor Useful Powers:
Aura of Sadness has helped me out numerous times. It has no saving throw and hurt's beople's saves...so good for enhancing the effectiveness of save or die spells, assuming you can stand being adjacent to your target. Having, in effect, a free reserve feat, to strike people with lightning is also good. In a campaign with water, water breathing is a nice bonus. Its once per 5 round power is meh. One thing: his influence can be a pain to roleplay. Constant grief and sadness gets annoying very quickly. KARSUS--Binding DC Very High Powers:
It goes without saying that Karsus is awesome. Greater Dispel Magic as a touch attack even makes having a familiar useful. Staves get the +2 to save DC's which is nice. It's high binding DC is a drawback for exploit vestige Andromalius gets a mention because permanent See Invisibility has also been useful, but otherwise I don't find his powers helpful 4th Level BUER--Binding is relatively low for a 4th Level Vestige Useful Powers:
Immunity to poison, effective immunity for your party, free fast healing, a low binding DC, Cure Minor Wounds at will. All good. The latter is also as good as having persistent Mass Lessor Vigor, since you can heal up the party after most fights without wasting cleric spell slots. TENEBROUS--Also relatively low given its power. Powers:
Being able to create the deeper darkness that doesn't impact you can be very useful. It can be less than optimal for your party mates, but the tactical advantages are obvious. Flicker is also good, though not as good as it appears, since there is a 50% chance you get hit when using it. Better to play a Conjurer and take the immediate action variant from PHB2. Then there is no chance of being hit in melee. Still, it does not suck. For non-conjurers, teleporting as an immediate action is great even with the 50% chance that you get hit anyway. Fifth Level and up, I am still play testing...nothing jumps out at me as being really terrific. |
| #19jameswilliamogleFeb 16, 2008 19:23:52 | Hey, bad form to post the exact text from the PDF, man. Also, no need to repeat this: all this info (in CoC format) is in the conol binder handbook. Please edit your post so as to not kill the thread. |
| #20bensanFeb 16, 2008 21:35:35 | While wizard is probably the way to go for a caster-focused anima mage, I suspect a binder-focused anima mage will be better off with a sorcerer. Choosing to focus on binder establishes charisma as your primary stat (save DCs are driven by it, not just binding checks) and adding intelligence as a required stat is somewhat undesirable in my opinion. |
| #21daergal_the_black_dupFeb 17, 2008 2:20:59 | Hey, bad form to post the exact text from the PDF, man. Assuming you're talking to me (way to be vague, by the way) that's not "exact" text and was not copied from any pdf. Take a look at the books and you'd have seem that (for example, the books to not describe Karsus' Senses as "Detect Magic, but better" as that would not be helpful at all). It was taken from the notes attached to my anima mage's character sheet, but that's hand written. What I wrote is certainly not all that the ToM has to say about these vestiges. Still I'll edit it to bring things to your high standards of unclarity. |
| #22daergal_the_black_dupFeb 17, 2008 2:58:25 | Oh, and I should have added above, the other feat that is a must have: Persistent Spell. Too good to pass that one up, when you can Vestige Metamagic it. Also, on the equipment side, Implements of Binding are an obvious must have, as is a Vestige Phylactery so that when needed you have some ability to swap out a vestige. Most anima mage builds are light on Binder, so don't have the ability to hold two vestiges simultaneously. This doesn't eliminate that handicap, but offsets that limitation in some small part. I find that Buer is a good one to store, for those times when your party needs emergency, intercombat healing and cleric spells are at a premium, or poison unexpectedly starts looking like it will be an issue. |
| #23bensanFeb 17, 2008 3:31:06 | Most anima mage builds are light on Binder, so don't have the ability to hold two vestiges simultaneously. Reread the "soul binding bonus" class feature. It specifically notes that it stacks for the purpose of number of vestiges bound, so an anima mage who completes the PrC will be always be able to bind at least two vestiges (having an EBL of at least 11 for that purpose). |
| #24jameswilliamogleFeb 17, 2008 7:42:04 | Assuming you're talking to me (way to be vague, by the way) that's not "exact" text and was not copied from any pdf. Take a look at the books and you'd have seem that (for example, the books to not describe Karsus' Senses as "Detect Magic, but better" as that would not be helpful at all). It was taken from the notes attached to my anima mage's character sheet, but that's hand written. Hey, I wasn't trying to offend: it looked like the stuff straight from the PDF to me! I was nervous about it, and posted before double checking. Sorry about that! ***** One thing about Flicker: its important to note that its once per round and has a duration = EBL rounds. What I've been using it for in my current L12 game is to use Chupoclops to pounce every round, getting in between the enemy and my party, and when they counter attack I flicker away to another charging position. Assuming the party didn't get in melee range, the enemy can't attack the other party members at all, and had a 50% miss chance against me if he can hit my AC (typically they can, though, as Age of Worms has some tough monsters). ***** I've played 5 binders (two to the L12-14 range, three to the L4-7), and am the current main author for much of the Consolidated Binder Handbook (about 95% of what wasn't in the previous handbooks), but admitedly have never played an Anima Mage. There's lots of good stuff from L5 to L6, but it may not be obviously synergistic... I think it takes some Gish-thinking to make it work (combining Otiax with precision damage from a Polymorphed form with Sneak Attack, for example, and Arcane Strike). ***** One other pro-Sorcerer arument: There's a handful of spells that only Sorcerers can use, and they're all very useful for gish-based characters. ***** Here's an almost full list (its missing some dragon material). I've had this around for a while: Show 1st Level Amon 1st (DC 20, can't also bind Leraje among others) Bad Pact: become surly and irritable, must try to save against all beneficial spells as well Darkvision (60') Fire Breath* (d6 / level, 10' / level to 50', Ref 1/2) Ram Attack (d6 + 1.5 x Str, +d8 on charge) Aym 1st (DC15) Bad Pact: become greedy, give a coin to every dwarf you meet w/in 10 rounds Dwarven Step (full movement in all armor) Improved Sunder Medium Armor Prof Halo of Fire (d6 damage to enemy if struck, d6 damage for a touch attack) Fire Resistance 10 Ruinous Attack (double damage from sunder) Leraje 1st (DC 15, can't bind Amon) Bad Pact: act reserved, cannot attack any elves +4 to Hide Low-Light Vision Precise Shot Weapon Proficiency (all martial bows) Ricochet (adjacent targets, single roll, normal damage, SA/SS counts once) Naberius 1st (DC 15, 4 ranks in Bluff or Knowledge or Profession skill) Bad Pact: any chance given, must talk about something for level rounds, berating those who would take over Disguise Self (as spell, standard action) Faster Ability Healing (1 damage / round, 1 drain in all abilities / hour) Persuasive Words* (30', Command as spell, Suggestion at 14th, Will neg.) Silver Toungue (can take 10 on any Bluff or Diplomacy check, even if threatened, and as a standard action and don't suffer -10 for rushed check) Naberius's Skills (pick skills = Con that can't be used untrained, and can use them) Ronove 1st (DC 15, must draw seal in soil under the sky) Bad Pact: must prove worth every chance; can't eat or drink Feather Fall (as spell) Sprint (10' enhancement bonus to speed) Improved Unarmed Strike (damage dice as monk, but no flurry) Melee count as Magic for DR, Magic + Cold Iron at 7th Far Hand (1. Swift Action, 10' / level, move 5' / level, Medium, Str = level; 2.* Standard Action, d6 damage + Bull Rush + 2, Str = level) 2nd Level Dahlver-nar 2nd (DC 17) Bad Pact: act OCD, cannot use anything requiring Concentration Mad Soul (Immunities: Wis damage / drain, Confusion effects, Insanity) Maddening Moan* (30' emanation, daze 1 round, Will neg.) Natural Armor Bonus (1/2 Con) Shield Self (10'/level, Will neg., split damage between target and self) Haagenti 2nd (DC17, must speak giant) Bad Pact: must defer to all more beutiful creatures (bowing, etc.) Confusing Touch* (confusion 1 round / 3 levels or Maze at 19th level, Will neg.) Immunity to Transformation (Polymorph or Petrification, unless desired) Shield Prof. (including Tower Shield) Weapon Prof. (battleaxe, greataxe, hand axe, throwing axe) Malphus 2nd (DC 15) Bad Pact: easy to fall in love (any compliment), use poison every chance Bird's Eye Viewing (clairvoyent bird, uses it's observation, your interpretation) Invisibility* (full-round, standard action at 5th, move action 10th, swift 15th, duration =level) Poison Use (never poison self) Sudden Strike (d6, +d6 per 4 levels) Savnok 2nd (DC 20; must have stolen something for which I've made no ammends) Bad Pact: act headstrong; when you don anything that improves AC, must not remove it Call Armor (regular Full Plate, increases w/ level) Heavy Armor Proficiency DR (1 / Piercing, +1 / 4 levels, Piercing & Magic at 13th) Move Ally (5' / 2 levels) 3rd Level Andromalius 3rd (DC 20, must give 2 items Andromalius carries) Bad Pact: can't steal, can't deal w/ stolen items, become like a jester Tasha's Hideous Laughter* (CL=BL, save allowed each round) Locate Item (100' / BL, must be well known or clearly visualized) See Invisibility (CL=BL) Sneak Attack (2d6 + d6/5 levels past 5th) Fogalor 3rd (DC 20, must use liquid during binding) Bad Pact: act depressed, must say a few words for the departed after combat Aura of Sadness (adjacent radius, -2 to attack, saves, and skills, suppress as a standard action) Fogalor's Breath* (standard action, 30', 1 creature, fort or blinded 1 round) Lightning Strike (3d6 + d6 / 3 BL after 5th, 10' / BL, standard action, Ref 1/2, works anywhere) waterbreathing Karsus 3rd (DC 25, Kn Arcana or Spellcraft 5 ranks and can't be w/in a magic effect) Bad Pact: become arrogant, make Bluff or Intimidate checks instead of Diplomacy Heavy Magic (magic item DC +2) Karsus's Sense (detect magic +2 rounds) Karsus's Will (can use spell trigger items of Wizard = to BL) Karsus's Touch (touch, dispel magic, bonus = BL) Paimon 3rd (DC 20) Bad Pact: must dance (1/2 speed) when hearing music, act bold Spring Attack* +4 Dex Weapon Finnesse & Wpn Prof (S. Sword, Rapier only) Whirlwind Attack 4th Level Agares 4th (DC 22, bind on earth or unworked stone) Bad Pact: only speak the truth, hate untruth Earth and Air Mastery (+1 to hit & damage if both touch ground, air creatures -1 to hit you) Earthshaking Step* (10' radius, if touching ground or connected to ground, Ref or prone, doesn't affect you or companion) Elemental Companion (summon a single earch elemental, once per hour, improves w/ level) Fear Immunity True Speach (understand, speak, write language of any creature w/in 30', if its strange, must hear it first) Andras 4th (DC 22) Bad Pact: become emotionless, must withdraw from battle dropping everything w/in 10 rounds, can't attack for d4 rounds) Sure Blows (Imp Crit w/ all weapons) Sow Discord* (Will, enemy must attack ally w/in reach, 5' / 2 level range) Lance, Longsword, Rapier proficiency Mount (full-round, 1/day, Heavy Warhorse w/ Saddle and lance, 1 h / BL) +8 Ride Smite Good or Evil* (Cha to attack, BL to damage) Buer 4th (DC 20, must be bound outdoors) Bad Pact: absent-mindedness, first melee attack must be non-lethal, no coup de grace Track Immunity to disease, binding removes diseases, allys w/in 30' gain Delay Disease Knowledge (+4 on Heal, Survival, Kn: Nature, can used untrained) Healing (1 pt per round as std action+10 a full round action and *, its positive energy) Fast Healing 1 (increases @ 13, 16, 19) Eurynome 4th (DC 21, can't bind Amon) Bad Pact: attack only after allies, become paranoid and ungrateful DR 2 / lawful Waterwalk (as spell) Poison Blood (creatures that bite take d6 damage, fort negates, more later) Animal Friend (all animals have friendly attitude) Eurynome's Maul (+1 Large Warhammer, better w/ level) Tenebrous 4th (DC 21, must bind in the deepest darkness) Bad Pact: act as though I've lost something, must not act 1st in combat Turn Undead* (cleric level = BL) Deeper Darkness (CL=BL, as spell, can increase or decrease 10' as move action) See in Darkness (every kind) Vessel of Emptiness (flicker 1/day, 2 @ 13, 3 @ 19) Touch of the Void* (cold energy, d8 + d8 / 4 levels past 7th, 1 attack, full round @ 11th) Level 5 Acerak 5th (DC 25, need to use a reusable gem during binding) Bad Pact: must sieze power when available Detect Undead (CL = BL) Hide from Undead Immune: Cold, Electricity Undead Healing (either pos or neg energy heals) Speak w/ Dead (CL = BL) Paralyzing Touch* (1/2 BL, save each turn as a full round action) Balam 5th (DC 25, deal 1 point damage) Bad Pact: must spit on the ground of a holy place, distrust clergymen Balam's Cunning* (can reroll 1 attack, save, skill check) Icy Glare (2d6 cold damage, Will) Weapon Finnesse Precience (+1/4 BL to initiative, Ref, and AC) Dantalion 5th (DC 25) Bad Pact: act aloof and use stately gestures, must read thoughts any leader w/in 100' Awe of Dantalion* (move action, any creature that sees can't target you w/ a hostile action) Dantalion Knows (+8 to all Knowledge checks) Read Thoughts (full-round action, as spell, 5' / BL) Thought Travel* (standard action, can move to anywhere you can see 5' / BL) Geryon 5th (DC 25, 5 ranks in Kn religion or planes) Bad Pact: trust everyone, can't sense motive or detect thoughts Acidic Gaze (30' radius, 2d6 damage, gaze attack rules, will neg) See in Darkness (all, including deeper darkness) All-Around Vision (+4 spot & search, no benefits to being flanked for opponents, gaze avoidance penalties) Swift Flight* (1 round, 60', perfect, swift action) Otiax 5th (DC 25) Bad Pact: become uncomfortable in locked rooms, when locked items are around, must unlock when key is presented Unlock* (standard action, automatic if DC < BL x 2) Open (10' / BL, as Open/Close) Combat Reflexes Air Blast (up to 10', 1 per attack, 2d6 damage no Str, AoO's allowed, touch attacks) 6th Level Chupoclops 6th (DC 25, must use tomb soil w/ binding, can't bind Amon) Bad Pact: act pessimistic, must fail all fear saves and morale penalty effects Aura of Despair (10' radius, -2 to attacks, checks, saves, weapon damage) Ghost Touch on all melee attacks Pounce Soulsense (as blindsense and deathwatch, living creatures only, 10' radius) Bite (d4 for medium, add Str) Ethereal Watcher* (as ethereal jaunt, ends after taking any action) Haures 6th (DC 25) Bad Pact: act eccentric, if disbelieve an illusion, may not enter that area Phantasmal Killer* (as spell, 10' / BL) Mind Blank (as spell, suppressable) Incorporeal Movement (can move through any terrain w/o penalty, enemies, not walls or solid bariers) Major Image* (as spell, CL = BL) Ipos 6th (DC 26, 5 ranks in Kn Arcana and Kn Religion or Kn Planes) Bad Pact: must educate the unenlightened' Cold Iron Claws (d6 for med, cold iron) True Seeing* (swift action, 1 round) Rend Planar Attenutation (protection from any single plane) Ipos's Influence (+1 DC for all abilities from bound Vestiges) Shax 6th (DC 26, must draw w/in sight of a pond or larger body of water) Bad Pact: become stingy, particularly about land, requires service or tax for use of territory Immunity Electricity Freedom of Movement* (self only, 1 round duration) Storm Strike (swift action, 1 attack, +d6 electic & +d6 sonic damage) Swim Speed (+8 to swim checks, can take 10 on swim, can auto-move, can "run" underwater) Zagan 6th (DC 25, must kowtow during binding) Bad Pact: become domineering, must slay all snakes and snakelike beings, must deface any deific snake representations Improved Grapple (considered Large when grappling) Aversion* (Will, 20' radius, snakes & snake creatures) Scent Snake Bane (+2 to hit & +2d6 damage vs. snakes & snake creatures) Constrict (d8 x 1.5 Str + normal unarmed damage w/ successful grapple) 7th Level Eligor 7th (DC 30) Bad Pact: befriend outcasts, attack human, elf, dragon before others +4 Str +3 Natural Armor (4 @ 16, 5 @ 20) Heavy Armor Prof Ride-by Attack Spirited Charge Chromatic Strike (free action, +d6 fire, cold, acid or electricity) Marchosias 7th (DC 30, must have stolen something and never atoned) Bad Pact: act sly, must use death attack on surprised opponents Death Attack (as assasin) Fiery Retribution (+3d6 damage if target can use SA, SS, or Sk) +16 competance Hide & Move Silently Smoke Form* (as Gaseous Form, unlimited duration) 8th Level Halphax 8th (DC: 32, bind inside or corner of a structure) Bad Pact: act unashamed, must bow to any demands for hostages DR 10 / adamantine +16 Profession (Siege Engineer), Knowledge (architecture and engineering), can use untrained Secure Shelter* (as Secure Shelter, 1 at a time, 60', std action) Iron Wall* (as Wall of Iron, 1 min duration) Imprison (as Imprisonment, std action touch attack, Fort, d4 rounds between uses) Orthos 8th (DC 35, bind in bright illumination only) Bad Pact: whisper, hate darkness, must carry an illumination source Blindsight 30' Whispering Wind (as spell, CL=BL, standard action) Displacement (50%, true-seeing negates) Whirlwind Breath* (60' cone, d6 / BL, ref 1/2, fort or prone and knocked back d4 x 10' or to outside cone rad) |
| #25PandaemoniFeb 17, 2008 11:25:27 | Do you have a link to the Binder Handbook? I am not finding it for some reason. More helpfully than noting I fail at Google, you also seem to be missing the psionic vestiges (Arete, The Triad, and Abysm) and }the Cityscape web enhancement vestiges (Astaroth and Desharis), and those are WOTC, rather than Paizo material (so should be non contoversial in most games). |
| #26jameswilliamogleFeb 17, 2008 11:44:12 | http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=784085 I don't have those vestiges on this list, mainly b/c I haven't used the Binder summaries for some time in my personal games, but thats a great addition (for someone else: I feel I've done my time as far as Binders go :D). |
| #27phoenixnemoFeb 18, 2008 2:49:29 | Good stuff guys, I'll be updating the handbook more this weekend/week (getting ready for a mma fight next weekend so my time is kind of crunched right now). I'm planning on the early entry tricks, will talk about the sorcerer vs wizard under the builds, and plan to include the warlock stuff. I'll add the bit about Bloodlines under the classes section (though I'm still not entirely sure how it works). good luck! i'm a MMA fighter too, it's nice to find one here one the forum. |
| #28thehumandynamoFeb 18, 2008 13:53:58 | good luck! That's awesome, where you from? What weight do you fight at? |
| #29CubeKnightFeb 18, 2008 16:14:05 | Hmmmm, are you guys sure Leraje's Ricochet works with ranged spells? If it does, a Ray-focused Caster/Anima Mage/Spellwarp Sniper could get nasty, with Ricochet and Split Ray. |
| #30jameswilliamogleFeb 18, 2008 16:58:42 | Hmmmm, are you guys sure Leraje's Ricochet works with ranged spells? If it does, a Ray-focused Caster/Anima Mage/Spellwarp Sniper could get nasty, with Ricochet and Split Ray. I've never heard that before, but checking the text... that's prety slick! Even on a straight Binder, Karsus + Leraje for double Scorching Rays, for example (probably others... Enervation...). Like a weaker chain spell EDIT: Which Wizard specialization do you folks think is the best entry? I'm sort of leaning towards Transmutation, with Enchantment and Necromancy close behind, as the auto-debuffs you can provide from Focolor and Chupoclops really help out the saves, but Transmutation also lends itself to gishes in general as well. Conjuration has some awesome Alt class features, but summoning can be provided via one (very powerful, if not overpowered) vestige. |
| #31phoenixnemoFeb 18, 2008 17:04:11 | That's awesome, where you from? What weight do you fight at? i'm from italy, i fight in middleweights (-84kg) dunno really in pounds, might be 185 IIRC. |
| #32true_shinkenFeb 18, 2008 18:35:47 | I've never heard that before, but checking the text... that's prety slick! Even on a straight Binder, Karsus + Leraje for double Scorching Rays, for example (probably others... Enervation...). Like a weaker chain spell How about Divination? |
| #33jameswilliamogleFeb 18, 2008 19:01:28 | How about Divination? I did think of it, and losing less schools is pretty appealing, but the Binder has so many divination related abilities already, it seems a bit like overkill. Malphus: Bird's Eye Viewing Canibri: Divination at will (one of the most potent ones, actually) Dantalion: Read Thoughts, +8 to knowledges Andromalus: Locate Objects, See Invisibility The Triad: Call to Mind several: See in Darkness I'm not sure its worth it, you know? Its a great school, no doubt, though. |
| #34thehumandynamoFeb 19, 2008 14:54:16 | i'm from italy, i fight in middleweights (-84kg) dunno really in pounds, might be 185 IIRC. Yes indeed that is 185lbs. You fight as an amateur or professional? |
| #35thehumandynamoFeb 19, 2008 16:01:12 | Updated information on some builds and the Vestige section. I started to tackle skills, feats, and equipment but my computer crashed and I lost it all. Will update more hopefully tomorrow. Please continue to suggest builds, equipment, feats, and vestige combinations that are useful and I'll get them in asap. |
| #36phoenixnemoFeb 20, 2008 2:39:49 | Yes indeed that is 185lbs. You fight as an amateur or professional? amateur ![]() don't really have the time to train as a pro... i'm still studying. |
| #37phoenix00Feb 20, 2008 11:20:09 | mention the green lady and the apostle of the green lady prc. It was going to be released in the savage tides path and was made by those adventures but the d&d insider change to dragon/dungeon prevented 4it. The designer then posted the info on the web. http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/dungeon/generalDiscussion/statsForTyralandiScrimm Sorcerer 1/Bloodline 3/Binder 1/Anima Mage 1/Apostle of the Green Lady 1 at lvl 7 your binding level is 1+3+1+3+1+3=12. Throw on improved binding and you can bind higher vestiges as binding level 14. Also has 3 levels of sorcerer casting. Only 4 hit dice though, so focus on defensive tactics. Apostle of the Green Lady has 6+skills, remember this. Sorcerer 1/Bloodline 3/Binder 1/Anima Mage 1/Apostle of the Green Lady 1/Anima Mage +9/Apostle of the Green Lady +4 Epic Ready Cast as a 16th lvl sorcerer with caster level 25 Effective binder level of 25 ---- If your DM will wave rds not being lawful or you do an alingment change (ex bards lose no abilites they just can't advance bard) Bard 2/Bloodline 2/Binder 1/Apostle of the Green Lady 2/Anima Mage 1/Apostle of the Green Lady +2(for a total of 4)/Sublime Chord 1/Anima Mage +9(for a total of 10. Full Sublime Chord Casting. Epic Ready At lvl 6 you have an ebl of 1+2+1+2=6 and with improved binding an ebl of 8 to bind vestiges. At lvl 8 you have an ebl of 1+2+2+2+1+2=10 and with improved binding an ebl of 12 to bind vestiges. At lvl 20, full sublime chord casting, an ebl of 1+2+4+2+10+2=21 |
| #38phoenix00Feb 21, 2008 13:56:06 | Under adaptation of Anima Mage it says you can adapt anima mage for divine or psionics. Using Improved Sigil Krau Spirit Shaman 1/Binder 1/Bloodline 3/Anima Mage 1/Apostle of the Green Lady 1/Anima Mage +9/Apostle of the Green Lady +4 Cast as a 16th lvl Spirit Shaman, caster level 25, one level away from 9th lvl spells Binds as a 25th lvl binder,(1+3+10+3+5+3) Can use any wizard/sorcerer item thanks to green lady. Can be entirely cha based thanks to that feat in one of the dragonlance books. Also the flavor combination of binder and spirit shaman work so well together... |
| #39jameswilliamogleFeb 21, 2008 14:07:21 | Hrmm... I never noticed that (I've been avoiding playing arcanists and divine casters like the plague, lately, though). An Ardent / Binder / Anima Mage might be fun... Binder 2 / Ardent 1 / Anima Mage (Psionic) 10 / KoSS 5 / Bloodline 2 (mix up the KoSS / Anima Mage levels to get maximum level powers)... Practiced Manifester, Improved Binding, Twin Power, Weapon Focus, 4 free (probably Assume Psionic Mantle, Expanded Knowledge, and a few metapsionics). Heh, I'm liking the sound of that... Metamorphosis + Soulbinding + Outsider forms? On an Ardent that can pick up to 9th level powers? Sounds very sexy... (of course, you could do the same on a standard Anima Mage as well... but I'm not sure if you can get 9th level spells and full binding... Binder 1 / Wizard 2 / Anima Mage 10 / KoSS 1 / bloodline 3 / casting 3... nope...) |
| #40zopzopFeb 21, 2008 17:03:16 | James how about this build : Cleric 4/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10/Tenebrous Apostate 5. You bind vestiges as a 17th level Binder (1 Binder + 2 Improved Binding feat + 10 Anima Mage + 4 Tenebrous Apostate) and have access to divine spells as a 18th level cleric (4 cleric + 10 Anima Mage + 4 Tenebrous Apostate). To top it all off you'd turn/rebuke undead as a 19th level cleric (Tenebrous' granted power + Cleric levels). |
| #41jameswilliamogleFeb 22, 2008 0:01:03 | Its basically the same as Phoenix00's build. Its a good one. I'd do a base of Archivist though, to pick up Druid spells as well (you only lose domain granted powers). Use Tenebrous to qualify for "turn/rebuke undead". Some DMs allow that sort of thing, some don't, but custserv goes both ways on temporary prereqs qualifying for feats/prcs. You lose some turn/rebuke levels, but that L5 ability isn't all that great, imo, and you won't be turning jack squat for undead at CR 20 with just 19 turning levels. btw, we're entering into very sketchy anima mage builds, now... |
| #42korwinMar 14, 2008 5:07:29 | Binder 1 / Wizard 5 / Anima Mage 10 / Unseen Seer 2 / Paragnostic Apostle 1 / ???? 1 Pre-Req.:
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| #43thehumandynamoMar 14, 2008 6:07:40 | Stupid photobucket, I'll fix the picture when I'm back at home Monday. |
| #44castlemikeApr 11, 2008 19:06:21 | Binder -2 with Improved Binding feat and class suppression ability, Erudite -3 using the Spells to Power Variant, Anima Mage (Psi) - 10, Full Psionic PRCs to taste -5. Effectively a Binder - 12 and Erudite - 18. Only a single feat required required to make the build so lots of potential for tweaking and customizing. Pretty strong at all levels and particularly higher levels concentrating the 10 daily psionic powers at the upper end of the scale with things like 9 PP Adept Heal, 13 PP Limited Wishes and 17 PP no experience Miracles for spell duplication at L19+. Taking a feat like Hidden Talent for Astral Construct at first level Binder -1 would provide the PC with an always available useful psionic power which wouldn't count against daily Erudite power usage. |
| #45IryApr 16, 2008 2:43:55 | Just another Triple Threat build. This one focuses more on spellcasting and binding early and casually picks up cleric levels later in the game. The only downside is that feat requirements basically tie you up until 12th level. 1) WuJen1 2) Binder1/WuJen1 3) Binder1/WuJen2 4) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima1 5) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima2 6) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima3 7) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima4 8) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima5 9) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima6 10) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima7 11) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima7/UrPriest1 12) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima7/UrPriest1/MysticTheurge1 13) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima7/UrPriest1/MysticTheurge2 14) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima7/UrPriest1/MysticTheurge3 15) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima7/UrPriest1/MysticTheurge4 16) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima7/UrPriest1/MysticTheurge5 17) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima7/UrPriest1/MysticTheurge6 18) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima7/UrPriest1/MysticTheurge7 19) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima7/UrPriest1/MysticTheurge8 20) Binder1/WuJen2/Anima7/UrPriest1/MysticTheurge9 1st: Earth Sense. 1st: Earth Spell. 1st: Heighten Spell. 3rd: Improved Binding. 6th: Iron Will. 9th: Spell Focus(Evil). |
| #46jameswilliamogleApr 16, 2008 7:30:25 | That's a nice build, Iry. People tend to stay away from Wu Jen b/c of the more limited spell list, but when you are casting off of 2 spell lists and have Binding to add as well, I think the diversity would be more than enough. You don't really need Earth Sense, Spell, and Heighten. Instead take Sanctum Spell at 1st, and Extend Spell as the bonus metamagic. This frees up 1 more feat. Or, be an Illumian w/ Naenhoon and Heighten Spell, since you aren't getting into UrPriest until you can bind Tenebrous anyways. That extra feat is pretty significant, imo, as it should try to get Extend and Persistant spell, which means only 1 feat left as is. I love Versatile Spellcasting on my dual casters, as cross-casting spells is very cool (and efficient: you only have so many combats per day, and way more slots than you can use). The all-prepared casters can enter it with the Alacritious Congitation feat. So, that's just enough feats w/ the Illumian or Sanctum trick to fit in Persistant Spell and Versatile Spellcasting by 18th level. So, there's a few tweaks that might help out. |
| #47castlemikeApr 18, 2008 13:24:47 | Looks like a great build to capitalize on the Wujen Transcend Mortality spell using Vestige Metamagic with the Persistent Spell feat. IMO recasting Transcend Mortality each day persisted with Vestige Metamagic would delay the death effect when the spell normally ends. |
| #48jameswilliamogleApr 18, 2008 14:51:14 | Looks like a great build to capitalize on the Wujen Transcend Mortality spell using Vestige Metamagic with the Persistent Spell feat. Or, just Extend Persist it every other day (or through some other methods as well). Great idea for any ridiculously high-powered campaign, though! Definitely works... Dang, ANY Wu Jen / Anima Mage combination can pull that off... geez... |
| #49dead_weaselApr 27, 2008 22:55:37 | I seem to recall there being rules for starting 1st level as a multiclass character (receiving the 'best' attributes of each base class, but halved - fewer spellslots, etc.). My idea for exploiting that particular rule was to take both Improved Binding and Precocious Apprentice at 1st level (human, azurin, or strongheart halfling being the means of accomplishing this). This would allow entry into Anima Mage at 3rd level by exchanging a flaw for a metamagic feat (2nd level being taken up by becoming a normal 1st-level spellcaster/1st-level binder). The problem? I cannot find the rules for a 1st-level multiclass character! I am concerned that these may have been in a 3.0 rulebook, or worse, a product of my imagination. Can anyone recall anything of this nature, to help me prove to myself that I am still a little bit sane? The reward, obviously, being obscenely early entry into a good prestige class. |
| #50xoraxxApr 28, 2008 6:38:51 | I seem to recall there being rules for starting 1st level as a multiclass character (receiving the 'best' attributes of each base class, but halved - fewer spellslots, etc.). It used to be in the 3.0 DMG it was called something like "Apprentice", just checked 3.5 DMG but I can't find it in there, so they probably removed it. |
| #51dead_weaselApr 28, 2008 13:37:08 | It used to be in the 3.0 DMG it was called something like "Apprentice", just checked 3.5 DMG but I can't find it in there, so they probably removed it. ![]() At least I have some sanity. |
| #52castlemikeMay 06, 2008 12:30:45 | DMG 3.0 pages 40 - 41 Variant: 1st level multiclass characters. |
| #53innabinderSep 16, 2008 0:02:23 | Thread necromancy, I know. Apologies to the living. A friend of mine is starting up a 3.5 campaign, and I've determined to play a Human Anima Mage. It's a FR campaign, and the books allowed are PGtF plus the FR regional book fitting our backstory (yet to be written), Core (without psionics ), PB2 and DMG2, and one additional sourcebook, which is obviously Tome of Magic in my case. The rest of the party is a Fighter 2/Ranger 3, Warlock 5, Druid 5, and Ranger 2/Scout 3. Character creation was 4d6x6, reroll ones once, and I got ridiculously lucky: 14 15 18 14 12 17 as placed, after adjustment for a 5th level start. My preliminary build is:1. Binder - Improved Binding, Skill Focus: Concentration (bind Malphas) 2. Binder 1/Sorcerer 1 - Toad Familiar 3. Binder 1/Sorcerer 2 - Extend Spell (for Mage Armor) 4. Binder 1/Sorcerer 3 5. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4 6. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Anima Mage 1 - Empower Spell (for Melf's Acid Arrow) 7. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Anima Mage 2 8. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Anima Mage 3 9. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Anima Mage 4 - Persistent Spell (mmm, Draconic Polymorph plans) 10. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Anima Mage 5 11. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Anima Mage 6 12. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Anima Mage 7 - Open to Suggestions 13. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Anima Mage 8 14. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Anima Mage 9 15. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Anima Mage 10 - Open to Suggestions 16. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Anima Mage 10/Suggestions for PrC? 17. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Anima Mage 10/Suggestions for PrC? 18. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Anima Mage 10/Suggestions for PrC? - Open 19. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Anima Mage 10/Suggestions for PrC? 20. Binder 1/Sorcerer 4/Anima Mage 10/Suggestions for PrC? Aside from the above questions, I'll happily entertain ideas for the best Vestiges to bind going forward - Malphas seems the best 2nd level choice and I'll keep it as the initial Vestige - and spells to fill my apparent role as primary caster, given that the Warlock is looking to be artillery, the Ranger/Scout is an archer, the Druid is Summons focused, and the Fighter/Ranger is sword & board. |
| #54jaronkSep 16, 2008 3:16:31 | With stats like that, I'd avoid Sorcerer and go for something with more flexibility (you're a Binder, you want that!). The best would probably be Archivist 4/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10/Tenebrous Apostate 5 with the divine adaptation of Anima Mage... that gives you 16th level binding and 19th level casting. JaronK |
| #55innabinderSep 16, 2008 5:37:39 | With stats like that, I'd avoid Sorcerer and go for something with more flexibility (you're a Binder, you want that!). The best would probably be Archivist 4/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10/Tenebrous Apostate 5 with the divine adaptation of Anima Mage... that gives you 16th level binding and 19th level casting. Binder/Archivist would use too many non-Core sources based upon books allowed. |
| #56castlemikeSep 16, 2008 12:10:59 | A +1 LA Draconic Human or +2 LA Half-Fey or Phrenic would be nice with LA buy down. Guild Wizard of Waterdeep -2+ from Magic of Faernun for some limited spell pool access (I prefer the PRC requirements compared to Mage of the Arcane Order which is nice for 1 or 4 levels) which also opens up the Spellfire Wielder feat. Arch Mage could be nice. (Arcane Disciple Luck Domain with High Arcana No experience Miracles for spell duplication 2/day as a spell like ability plus the bonus domain Miracle. Abjurant Champion could be nice but not as nice as Arch Mage. Thaumaturgist could be nice if you could learn Lesser Planar Ally as one of your "Unusual" spells to go Thaumaturgist. Get a Efreeti or Noble Djinni for your Planar Ally and you are good to go.:D |
| #57surrealSep 17, 2008 22:14:07 | In a game that never pulled through, I was going to play a Binder 1/Beguiler 4/Anima Mage 10/Shadowcraft Mage 5. The Beguiler base just for more skill points and a different set of abilities (and I hate picking spells for wiz/sor anyways) plus some trapfinding. That and Naberious combines very nicely with beguiler. SCM isn't necessary and it outside your books allowed, but is the final icing on the cake in terms of versatility. Otherwise, Incantatrix or Archmage are effective choices. |
| #58innabinderSep 19, 2008 12:45:04 | In a game that never pulled through, I was going to play a Binder 1/Beguiler 4/Anima Mage 10/Shadowcraft Mage 5. The Beguiler base just for more skill points and a different set of abilities (and I hate picking spells for wiz/sor anyways) plus some trapfinding. That and Naberious combines very nicely with beguiler. SCM isn't necessary and it outside your books allowed, but is the final icing on the cake in terms of versatility. Otherwise, Incantatrix or Archmage are effective choices. Thanks, Surreal. I like the Beguiler base, but I worry some about not having the spell options that Wiz/Sorc gives me. Yes, I know that with a Sorc base my 'versatility' is somewhat gimped anyway. On the 5th level 'stub' I handed the DM for Binder 1/Sorcerer 4, my spells were: Ghost Sound, Read Magic, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Ray of Frost; Mage Armor (cast as 2nd with Extend), Enlarge Person, Grease; Glitterdust in an effort to combine Battlefield Control with some ability to gish if need be (D8 base, 18 CON and Toad Familiar make me ever-so-slightly less squishy than a straight Sorc). Incantatrix is, obviously, a wonderful endcap to the build, but it feels a little bit overdone. I'd also probably be more inclined to look at a 5-level PrC so that the DM has little to complain about as far as the cheese factor is concerned. |
| #59BloodDragonOct 07, 2008 14:44:08 | Almost every one of the builds here uses the Extend/Persistent combo for their metamagic feats, outside of that heighten and Empowered were mentioned. It would be nice if there was a break down of which metamagic feats were good for a Anima mage, especially since Persistent is known and ban by many DMs. All of the Metamagic threads in the Surreal-dex explicitly state that they rank their Metamagics without the use of Meta-reduction abilities, which is exactly what the Anima Mage does, so it would be nice to know where one stands when using Vestige Metamagic (VMM). In hopes of sparking a conversation I suppose I'll start with my two cents: Ani-ma-gic Feats: Quicken: I find is universally useful when you're able to cast it without Spell level cost. One of the MetaM guilds stated that Quicken is largely useless now with the addition of the Celerity spell, but I find the ability to act instantly and toss out a Normal Spell +Quicken Spell. Is immeasurably powerful. Twin/Repeat: Same as Quicken in almost every aspect except that they cast the same spell again and at best save you a spell slot. Still very useful. I personally prefer Twin over Repeat because I couldn't be bothered to wait a round. Fel Animate: Wonderful for all sorts of reasons, mostly evil ones. As a wizard(Evoker/Necro usually) you can't plan on when you'll need a damaging spell to aid in raising your undead army, so it's nice to be able to decide on the fly. For Sorcerers it's just nice not to have to waste a +3 spell slot, still very worth while. Fell Drain: Good for Wizards for flexibly reasons. Sorcerers might as well just cast it on the fly. It's only a +2. Maximize/Empower: I'm of the crowd that says Empower is better all around. With maximize at +3 you’ll generally only be using this with Vestige MM and never outside of that. With empower at a +2 you could still feasible prepare or spontaneously cast normally, and VMM when in a pinch. Overall I feel Empower wins even more here due to its flexibility. Fortify/Heighten: I think I’d have to double check on these but your able to crank these out without increasing the spell-slot they use?! Done! Extended: Excellent Metamagic to take in general even as a Anima Mage, but not worth actaully using the VMM ability on. Pre-req for Persistent but good in it's own right. Persistent: Yes it’s insanely good and is the obvious choice if DM permitted. Any metamagic +1: You might as well just prepare or cast it unless you really need that Shapechange extended. Majority of metamagic +2: I find anything at this level it’s really situational, depending on your character build, and how big of a mess you’ve gotten the party into. Generally any +2 metamagic is not worth wasting a VMM on, but there are a lot of good MMs at this level that you may have incorporated into your character build anyway. |
| #60thehumandynamoOct 08, 2008 12:24:09 | You seem to be on the right track, but no, you cannot use Fortify/Heighten without actually raising the level (at least with VMM). There are ways, but they are silly and should be banned long before Persistent. |
| #61jaronkOct 08, 2008 16:05:04 | Echoing Spell is absolutely wonderful, though it's even better if you're a Shadowcraft Anima Mage. And don't forget Residual Metamagic... double your free metamagics on one spell, if you cast it twice in a row! JaronK |
| #62phaedrusxyMar 07, 2009 12:31:29 | I originally posted a version of this in the "Finish what you started" thread, but I think it is sufficiently bad-ass to warrant reposting here. :D Gnome Wizard 1/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10/Shadocraft Mage 5/Magical Trickster3 I'd suggest taking the gnomish illusionist sub-level at 1st to get Silent Image as a cantrip, and also consider making this a Focused Specialist (Illusionist). You can emulate Conjuration and Evocation, so you could drop both if you want, and then either Enchantment or Necromancy (or both of the latter, and Evocation). The build requires two feats at first, so you either need to use one Flaw, or the non-gnome adaptation of SCM. The trick: use Vestige Metamagic to Heighten Silent Image for free to 10th level with Earth Spell to cast 9th level conjuration/evocation spells as early as 10th level (Bind1/Wiz1/AM5/SCM3). :D Add on Residual Metamagic, and you can emulate a 2nd 9th level spell using a Silent Image for free on the next round. Finally, combine this with the Magical Trickster's Tricky Metamagic to also apply Repeat Spell to the first one, and you could cast three 9th level spells using two cantrips in two rounds once per day, and ultimately get a total of seven 9th level spells per day cast from 0th/1st level slots... Progression: 1 Focused Illusionist 1 Precocious Apprentice, Toughness 2 Binder 1 [Retrain Toughness to Improved Binding] 3 Anima Mage 1 Heighten Spell 4 AM 2 [Retrain Prec. App. to Earth Sense] 5 AM 3 6 AM 4 Earth Spell 7 SCM 1 8 SCM 2 9 SCM 3 Residual Magic, [Shadow Illusion] 10 AM 5 [Vestige Metamagic] 11 AM 6 12 AM 7 Repeat Spell, [Vestige Metamagic x2] 13 AM 8 14 AM 9 [Vestige Metamagic x3] 15 AM 10 Chain Spell 16 MT 1 17 MT 2 Quicken Spell 18 MT 3 [Metamagic Trick], Open Feat 19 SCM 4 20 SCM 5 Skill Tricks: False Theurgy, Swift Concentration, Collector of Stories Alternative: You could use Uncanny Trickster instead of Magical Trickster. By advancing Anima Mage with this, you could get an EBL of 15 for the purposes of what level vestige you can bind, allowing you to bind vestiges of up to 7th level. You'd lose the free metamagic from Magical Trickster, but it might be worth it. |
| #63optimystikMar 09, 2009 0:50:40 | I absolutely fell in love with this prestige class. The mechanical and roleplay opportunities are endless. At first I thought binders were less interesting than shadowcasters and truenamers but this handbook got my goober juices flowing very nicely. Mechanical Bonuses: Turn vestiges into metamagic; Full DUAL caster progression; Trading vestige abilities for spell slots (of any level you can access!); Gain an (unnamed!) Initiative bonus every time you make a good pact Immediate action any spell once per day; it gains Still and Silent to boot! Roleplaying Opportunities: Hiding eerie signs from your party members; A laundry list of wacky influences (that can even be ignored in tense situations, with a penalty of course; Keeping a wary eye out for witch hunters in every village; Living a double life as the party's ordinary wizard, but secretly going out every morning to scrawl circles in the dirt, followed by using extremely strange abilities in battle. It's just a dynamite PrC all around. Oh yeah, and you can jump into it as early as LEVEL 3! Sign me up!!! |
| #64phaedrusxyMar 09, 2009 1:19:11 | I agree completely. Everything I look at now, I seem to think "how could I do that with an Anima Mage?". :P |
| #65mastatharizdunNov 19, 2009 1:28:10 | What I am doing for my Anima Mage is im taking the two binding feats at level one and three and i am a human. Also for my bonus feat I am taking the truespeaking feat. and so at level five you can get into the Anima mage class easy! Then get out at level 15 to go into a small 5 level prestige class. for instance i would go effigy master in the complete Arcane. for some protection! |
| #66waazraathNov 19, 2009 9:48:34 | My raycaster/sneak attack build with anima mage: Main features: - multi attack ranged touch attack spells - lots of sneak attack/sudden strike from binder - metamagic madness for loads of extra attacks (with quicken, twin, etc.) Nice bonus: - very flexible when sneak attack isn’t a possibility, with loads of metamagic options, 19 casterlevels, 11 levels soulbinding The build Binder 1 Wizard (martial variant) 3 Anima Mage 10 Incantrix 4 Unseen Seer 2 Feats 1 Improved binding human improved initiative martial wizard: martial study (any shadow hand) 3 Iron will 6 craven 9 quicken spell 12 martial stance (assasins stance) 15 deadly precision incantrix: extend spell 18 persistent spel incantrix: twin spell spells multi attack ranged touch spells: scorching ray, melfs unicorn arrow deny dex to AC: grease, improved invisibility, distract assailent other good ranged touch: disintegrate, enervation, orb of … misc.: snipers shot Items Rod of many wands 3 wands of melfs unicorn arrow (high level creator) Rogues vest/novice iron heart vest (for iron heart surge) Rod of magical precicion The obvious (gloves of dex +6 blablabla) Result: -edit: new calculation after finding out that only the first attack coming from one spell that has several attacks does sneak attack damage. E.g., also with 3 scroching rays that hit 3 different targets, only the first does SA damage. That sucks, but makes more spells (and thus: metamagic) all the more important. Also added into the calculation: polymorph into a Kelvezu (MM2) for 8d6 extra SA damage and deadly precision effect. Normal melfs unicorn arrow: 5x 1d8 + 8 + 20 = 162.5 SA/SS = 24 x +/- 3.9 = 94 total 256.5 With the use of a rod of many wands & quickened twinned melfs unicorn arrow: 5 x 256.5 = 1282.5 The thread: here |
| #67waazraathApr 07, 2010 15:19:24 | I noticed that there aren't many anima mage builds yet that feature the "adaption" variants with divine spells or psionic powers. Most of the ones that are featured only give the class levels and no feats, spell selection, items or broader strategy. I think it's a shame, since the possibilities with anima mages/priests/psions are, as mentioned at other places in this handbook, endless. Especially the anima priests seem very interesting. Because: - casting in heavy armor - no loss of other interesting class features (contrary to wizards, druids or psions), you get what you need (turn undead, domain powers) at 1st level - self-buff spells of the cleric are awesome and compensate for the d4 hit die and low BaB - anima mage class features effectively give 3 free persisted spells of any level and one quickened spell of any level. Add DMM persist in the mix and you get a character with a lot of permanent spells on it! - possible abuse of the turn undead attempts given by the vestiges Tenebrous and Green Lady, with divine spells and Here's my try! Some presumptions: - the green lady vestige from pathfinder is allowed. - stuff under "adaption" is considered ok (else this whole post wouldn't make sense )- Favoured classes and alignment restrictions are taken into account. - it's ok to take "war" as domain without a deity and pick your own (martial) weapon for proficiency and focus - the heterodoxy and heresy variant of Tome of Magic regarding clerics/binders isn't used (it doesn't make much sense without a deity, and to be honest, the variant doesn't make much sense to me at all) - fluff prereqs can be worked around, only concerning church inquisitor Human, LG, domains of worship: good, law, animal, war Build Level, class, feats, class features 1 cleric, divine vigor, extend spell, weapon prof & focus, turn undead, war domain, animal devotion (replaces animal domain), spells 2 cleric 3 binder, improved binding, soulbinding 4 cleric 5 anima priest 6 anima priest, sacred healing, exploit vestige 7 anima priest, vestigal awareness 8 anima priest 9 anima priest, persistent spell, vestige metamagic 1/day 10 anima priest 11 anima priest, vestige metamagic 2/day 12 contemplative, holy warrior, law devotion (replaces law domain) 13 anima priest, 14 anima priest, vestige metamagic 3/day 15 anima priest, mounted combat, vestige casting 16 prestige pally, detect evil, smite evil 1/day, turn undead 17 prestige pally, divine grace, lay on hands, special mount 18 prestige pally, DMM persist, aura of courage, divine health 19 church inquisitor, option: knowledge devotion (replaces domain) 20 church inquisitor, immunity to charms Caster level 18 BaB 11 (18 with divine power) Base saves - fort 11 - ref 5 - will 18 wis > cha > con > str > dex > int the idea With a permanent bind of both the green lady and tenebrous, you get: +2 cha, a lvl 1 wiz/sor spell once every 5 round, use of arcane spell trigger items, ability to identify magic items with a spellcraft check, once a day use of the flicker shadow mistery (short range teleportation 1 round/lvl), see in darkness, deeper darkness as effect around you, some bonus damage once every 5 rounds, and, yo ho ho, both vestiges grant you a a turn undead attempt every five rounds. At level three, with acces to the green lady, this means a permanent divine vigor is on (+2 temporary hp + 10 feet movement), since the activiation of the feat is one turn attempt, with a duration of 1 minute per level. Also, animal devotion can be used and bought back partly with this recurring turn attempt, partly with normal turn attempts, granting more uses/day. At level 6, you gain the ability to heal the entire party up to full hp between encounters, spending NOTHING. Normally, a binder would need the Buer vestige for this, which does for the rest pretty much nothing. Other ways to do this normally include spending a lot of recourses. At level 9, you have a persistent divine power. w00t. Together with the increased hitpoints and speed from divine vigor, extra bonusses useable several times/day from animal devotion, and the usual self buff spells for a cleric (or wizard, with the green lady ability to use arcane spell trigger items) of this level, you can go to town. At lvl 11, you can bind tenebrous AND the green lady, getting 2 recurring turn attempts every 5 rounds, making it really easy to buy back uses of the devotion feats, and a persistent rightous might is added to the fun. Lvl 12 gains another devotion feat that gives + to AC or attack, and a lot of bonus damage from the holy warrior feat... Well, etcetera, I think it's clear from their where it goes at later levels, with more persistable options, freedom of movement, foresight, true seeing, and a helluvalot more can get persisted.Variants - for better defensive and offensive options, more divine feats can be chosen like divine might or divine shield. Their use is limitless, after all. - more feats can be gained by dropping the prestige paladin, if flaws are allowed, or instead of holy warrior - prestige paladin is added because of the awesomeness of +cha on saves at higher levels, with all the "save or die" misery that accompanies those levels. It can be dropped easily (to free a feat and regain a casterlevel) for more levels of contemplative or church inquisitor, that give nice bonusses as well. - a version with a deity can be easily made, e.g. with heironeous. Ordained champion (3) would be very nice for the channel spell ability |
| #68bigtunaJun 10, 2010 15:50:32 | Great thread! I'm just building my first binder/anima mage and found get deal of inspiration here. So i thought i would share my build: Binder1/sorc 1/anima mage 10/unseen seer 5/Paragnostic apostle 2/something 1 flaw1 imp binding, flaw2: imp sigil (krau) lvl 1 Able learner lvl 2 (dragon heritage instead of familiar) lvl 3 reach spell lvl 6 pratical metamagic (reach), lvl 9 spilt ray lvl 12 twin spell lvl 15 residual magic 18 pratical metamagic (split ray) The basic plan: make spells like chill touch, storch touch and later Scalding Touch into reach spells - split them, and later twin them - get sudden strike/sneak attack from binder (or something else depending on the situation). Illumians offer an alternative to that apprentice feat -the imp. Sigil (Krau) feat, but ask your Dm. There is a price how ever - since Illumians comes from the shadow plane they can't Bind the Triad. Querbred from SoS should also be mentioned for anima mages that would like to focus om Int instead of Cha. +2 LA- not worth it without LA buyoff, but making Binding Dc int based and +4 to int isn't bad - but the -4 cha will hurt for making good pacts. If you planned on taking the 3 vestiges from Minds Eye that gives psionics look else where... I know extend + persist would be a better use of Vestige metamagic than twin spell, but I don't like the cheese of persist. But residual magic should be a part of any Anima Mage build (thanks your pointing that out - who ever it was)
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