Any advice for a high charisma eldritch disciple glaivelock? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Any advice for a high charisma eldritch disciple glaivelock?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
stalos_
Oct 13, 2008 16:54:02 Hi all

I have been kicking around an idea for an eldritch disciple for an upcoming game, but I am not sure no some of the specifics. Unfortunately I don't have my exact stats, but I would get just enough WIS to cast my spells, then focus CHA for DCs and damage via divine might feat and then go STR for hit bonuses and damage

First: I think that having a high CHA can be cool if I pick up the right feats. Divine might used with my glaive can add some good damage. However, is it worth the investment, or should I put my stats elsewhere. Furthermore, would it be worth a 2 level dip into paladin or some other PrC for divine grace?

Second: I am debating whether or not to go ur-priest. While Ur-priest builds are always really strong, having some domains might also really help. Also, if I do go high CHA, then I might go for a lesser asimar for the CHA and WIS bump. Mixing asimar with ur-priest, while totally viable and plausible, might be a little out of character for an asimar.

Third: What do you guys think about hellfire warlock IF i don't use one of the common tricks to heal the CON damage (i.e. the soulmeld option or the binder option). I can get a cheap item or use some of my cleric spells to heal the damage pretty easy, but is it too risky being a melee fighter?

What other suggestions would you guys offer? Also, just to save you guys some time, I have thought about and decided against divine metamagic and persistent spell. While it would be really, really awesome to have constant divine power, I am ok with spending a turn in combat and the spell slots to uses those good buffs. My main reason for doing this is for simplicity and civility. I will be joining a new group, and while the DM is cool and would most likely allow it, I don't want any to cause any unrest with him or the new players, and I can still find lots of good uses for my turn attempts.

Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks
Stalos
#2
empirate
Oct 14, 2008 5:31:41 Dipping Paladin is not an option for 2 reasons:
You need to be chaotic or evil to play a Warlock. And dipping Paladin doesn't help a divine caster.

Divine Might could be very useful, but I'd consider getting turning/rebuking some way that allows you to continue either divine casting progression or invocation progression. Maybe play a race that can turn/rebuke?

Ur-Priest sounds like a very good bet for both divine casting and rebuking. However, remember that you'd need two levels of Ur-Priest, and the reqs for both Ur-Priest and Eldritch Disciple are hard to meet with pure Warlock beforehand. Also, you'd need to be evil.

High Charisma is good for Warlocks, but secondary for Glaivelocks: you rely on eldritch blast and utility invocations, so save DCs for invocations is not as important. Remember you'll need high Wis, Dex and Con already. Int doesn't hurt either, so the only thing you can really dump with your Glaivedisciple is Str.
High Cha would earn you a lot of turning attempts, however, which would be good not only for Divine Might, but more importantly for Divine Metamagic. DMM might not be your greatest priority with a Glaivelock, but persisting or quickening your divine spells from Ur-Priest or whatever is always nice.
#3
muertog
Oct 14, 2008 11:29:17 I -know- this is the char-op board, but if you are looking to avoid the DMM cheese-in-a-can, here is my take on a simple theoretical eldritch disciple:

Simplistic: Cleric1/Warlock1/Cleric3/Eldritch Disciple10/Cleric5 Focused attributes would be Cha, Wis, Con. Just makes sure you reach 19+ wis by level 15 or so and you should be golden.

You can still achieve 9th level cleric spells (you end up 2 levels behind a straight cleric).
You turn undead as a cleric 1 level behind.

My version of the cleric/warlock would be Chaotic Neutral, channeling negative energy (inflicts and rebukes), taking the feats Reach Spell, Spontaneous Healer and invocations: Dark One's Own Luck, See Unseen, (trading in a least for a lesser invocation at 11th effective warlock level), Eldritch Chain, Walk Unseen, Fell Flight, The Dead Walk, and Devour Magic, as well as the Gifts Corrupting Blast and Healing Blast. The character would truly be Chaotic Neutral, healing and harming according to his/her whims, holding the true power of life AND death in his/her hands (along with the requisite number of created and controlled undead due to both cleric and warlock abilities).

Use Spellweave and/or Reach Spell to chain Greater Dispels, Assay Spell Resistance, Corrupting Blasts, Harm, all while using Fell Flight and Sight Unseen at will for battlefield mobility. And you better have see invisible/true sight in order to target me to dispel the abilities... if it hasn't been dispelled already! Otherwise, I can take 5' adjustments in any of 14 different directions (up, down, left, right, forward, backwards, even diagonals), even with full-round actions.

Healing blast: Uses unused turning attempts to change your level 11 5d6 warlock blast into a healing blast instead. You can't apply another essence invocation to that, but it appears there is no limits to the -blast shape- invocation to apply to that healing blast. IE: Chain/Cone/Doom to heal several party members at the same time. Cha being a Warlock focused attribute means you should have a fairly high number of turn attempts a day anyways. Charisma is great for also powering Dark One's Own Luck to boost one save throw.

Devour Magic: The ability for a cleric to touch-greater dispel at will (and gain temp HP) is not a bad ability to take. Unfortunately you can't apply Reach Spell since it is a Spell-like effect, not a spell, but still not a bad ability. Dispel your own personal spells for a huge temp HP boost if you are in danger? Heck, target-greater dispel your own magic item, get a boost to your temp HP, the item resumes its ability 1d4 rounds later and your temp HPs last for 1 minute. Practiced Spellcaster if you want to boost your dispel checks a little more (11+4=15, which -isn't- bad for a free, at-will ability).

The class gets more cheesy with Ur-Priest. At that point, I might recommend:
Paladin of Tyranny 3 (Slaughter if you REALLY prefer, but I like the -2 to opponent saves, no save aura), Warlock 2, Ur-priest 1, Eldritch Disciple 4, Contemplative 1, Eldritch Disciple 4+ (wasted caster levels if non-epic). Finish with your choice of 5 more levels of whatever. At least one more level of warlock if you want the Devour Magic cheesy-goodness (badness?). 4 Levels of Hexblade gives Mettle -and- the option for the hexblade alternate familiar class feature option (Opponents no save -2 to saves and AC). 2 Levels of Blackguard allows you to -again- double-up on the divine grace/dark blessing ability, stacked with the Dark One's Own Luck means never failing a saving throw ever again. Now if we could only fit Evasion in here somewhere... Rogue/Monk 2? Means giving up med/heavy armor (or go Mithril).

-this- build really wants to be human for the base, since you are going to be hurting for the skill points in order to enter all the required prestige classes (mostly Ur-priest), although you could also be hurting a little on the attributes (unless you don't -really- care about being in combat with the first couple Paladin levels as much).

If the DM is lenient (and INSANE!), rebuke a vampire, turn it into a follower via Leadership, give it Bard levels and the ability Requiem via Libris Mortis in order to inspire courage/greatness your fleet of controlled undead. Just imagine the marching scene from Army of Darkness! Few worries about losing your cohort due to his vampiric abilities, and you a have a vampire tooting a dirge in the midst of a shambling crew of skeletons/zombies/more powerful undead.
#4
empirate
Oct 16, 2008 6:23:13 I like your two builds a lot, Muertog. Very viable; the first one is useful and flexible without being overpowered - also, nice flavor; the second one is gold CharOp-wise, and tweakable.
But the OP stated he wanted a Glaivelock, so where's that?
And another question: the first build you posted seems good as is, but doesn't really need Cha for any class abilities except # of turning attempts. Warlocks only need to be Cha-heavy if they have a lot of invocations forcing saving throws. The invocations you chose don't allow saves (most are effectively self-buffs). Cha is also nice for bluffing and UMD, but all in all, the build doesn't seem to actually need it. Playing that build, I'd probably put Cha at 10 and forget about it. If I need more turning attempts for some reason, I'll take a Nightstick or seven...
#5
muertog
Oct 16, 2008 12:30:22 Thanks for the comments. The Cha suggestion is a bit more for the second build than the first. Double and triple dipping in +Cha to saves is worth going Wis > Con > Cha/Int.
#6
stalos_
Oct 16, 2008 17:18:09 Hi guys

Thanks for the advice.

So I did a little investigating, and I think I can get a bit more out of my charisma. The build will get into Ur-Priest ASAP at level 6, but in the first 5 levels, I am going to squeeze in two levels of warlock, two of paladin of tryanny, and 1 of marshal. With marshal, I will most likely pick the aura that boosts my reflex save, and then I'll also take dark one's own luck when I can. Combined with divine grace, that's CHA to 2 of my saves twice once to the remaining. Plus, Marshal gives me the skill points I need. I can get into Ur-Priest as a Human with only 12 int if I go this route. If I am lucky and get amazing roles, I might drop human for lesser asimar, but that remains to be seen. I plan on taking hellfire warlock, but I might be cheezy and stack blackguard on top, but that is pretty intensely cheezy. My saves will be freaking awesome without blackguard, and I would rather boost my eldritch blast as much as possible.

So here is another question. What is my primary stat, WIS or CHA. I can get a amulet of Wisdom to boost my score high enough to get all my spell casting, but it is a little risky. Moreover, I will definitely be taking Warlock invocations that call for saves because I will be using eldritch glaive. While I will definitely put my best two scores in WIS and CHA, i don't know which to prioritize.

@Muetog
Contemplative would be awesome to squeeze in, but the theme of this build wouldn't really meet it, while this character does worship a God, he does so by dominating others and stealing what divine power he uses from good aligned gods. I might still put contemplative in there, but that is unknown. I suppose that If I got a legacy weapon, I could take legacy champion and boost my hellfire warlock a little extra, but that would be like at level 20, and so I don't really concern myself with levels beyond 15 because who knows If they will get that far.

If you have any good Combat-Warlock feat suggestions, please let me know.

Thanks
Stalos
#7
muertog
Oct 16, 2008 18:52:10 The 3rd level of Paladin of Tyranny grants you the aura that gives all enemies a -2 to saves. You -might- want to reconsider it.
Alternatively, you could get the 1-2 rogue levels instead for the skill points -and- evasion. Slows your Ur-priest cheesy wonderness by a level, but also upps your survivability quite a bit. And sneak attack damage on top of a touch-inflict is just icing on the cake.
#8
stalos_
Oct 16, 2008 22:12:09 @Meurtog

That -2 to saves is nice, but I have to make a choice. Either get the -2 to saves early on, or have and extra invocation and slightly fast warlock progression AND get Dark invocations at lvl 20. If I take that extra pally level, i won't get dark invocations later on, and while theoretically if I have gotten to level 20, it aint that big a deal to go one more, it should still be mentioned. What do you think is the better deal?

Stalos

P.S. any feat ideas that rock with eldritch glaive. I read the thread on it but it could be clearer and better laid out.
#9
muertog
Oct 16, 2008 23:28:30 Problems with Eldritch Glaive is:
1) Have to be in melee range.
2) You cannot wear any armor heavier than light without arcane failure (barring feats).
3) You will be minimum of 9th level before you get your first iterative attack.
4) 10th level you get Eldritch Chain (Yes, you can swap invocations at higher levels) which gives "multiple attacks", but at range.
5) Eldritch Glaive is a Blast shape, so cannot be used with Spellweave.
6) Must use a full-round action.
7) (relatively) Low hit points.

Benefits:
1) Touch-attack melee(ish) weapon w/ warlock's blast damage.
2) Attacks of opportunity.

Thus, you need to figure a way to maximize the number of attacks and attacks of opportunity. As this is a full-round action, you would have to -start- 10' away from the opponent, get 1 (or 2) reach attacks, 5' adjust backwards and hope the opponent walks forward to attack you so you get 1 more AoO. You really don't have the feats free to take advantage of things like Combat Reflexes, Robilar's Gambit, -and- being the glaive is a reach weapon, you cannot attack adjacent opponents... so the opponent -has- to have a reach weapon as well. This means the opponent (having reach) would only 5' adjust to get in range -and- would not provoke an attack of opportunity. There -is- Short Haft (PHB2), but that requires Weapon Focus in the selected weapon (Glaive?), which means you have sunk 3 feats (Combat Reflexes, Robilar's Gambit, and Weapon Focus Glaive) for a relatively weak trick. Oh, and you -have- to have a decent dex score as well.
#10
stalos_
Oct 17, 2008 0:53:19 @ Muertog

#1: Thats no problem, I will take Travel Domain Feat to have lots of movement options.
#2: I didn't know warlocks have armor failure above light, but even if they do, there are many, many tricks to lightening the spell failure chance. There was a whole thread on it once that I read, I will have to dig through the archives.
#3: Divine Power. That is the nice thing about cleric levels. At the 4th or 5th level of Ur-Priest I will have divine power which helps a ton on that front, even If i have to cast it each time a fight starts.
#4 Eldritch Chain is good, nothing to say there. But, you can power attack with the glaive which boost damage.
#5 Again, you are right, but I think it is a good trade off as I will be primarily buffing myself with my spells, not attacking.
#6:Travel Domain feat allows me the movement I need (Is it called travel devotion or travel domain, i forget)
#7:Low hit points sucks, but I will have to find some way to boost them. However, Considering I will have fell flight, I can always hover above ground enemies and whack away with the glaive.

Also, If I can get enough tricks to negate the spell failure, which I know is possible cause I have seen it on these boards, then I can get armor spikes and technically threaten my local squares. Taking combat reflexes might not be a bad idea though, cause with righteous might I will have decent reach and can whack people as they approach me. I can get a 14 in dex and them maybe an item to boost it. That isn't ideal, but its a start.

But the important question is, is CHA or WIS my primary stat. I just don't know. I can force multiple saves with the glaive, so CHA isn't bad, plus there is a lot of synergy, but more spells are always welcome. Tell what your opinion on this is.

Stalos
#11
muertog
Oct 17, 2008 1:42:48 Wis is a minimum of 19 by the time you reach max clerical spell progression. That is achievable via items easily, but then you chance the loss of spells (no recovery) if your items are ever suppressed (Dispel magic, anti-magic field, etc).

If you are going for warlock save DC invocations (since you want the eld.glaive), you want to push Cha. However, if you are going front-line, you will also want sufficient Con.

Wis min 19(or 20), so starting would be 12-16 (not counting level bumps).
Con you would want to start around 12-14
Cha would be less important about momentary disruption, since you don't lose your abilities while items are supressed... The save DC will be low until they come back online.
Str: Eld.Glaive (and power attack) req. min 13. Likely want more than that, but could rely upon +Str belts.

You start running into MAD. Hope your rolls are good. Warlock abilities tend to be more for damage than effect, while cleric ones tend to be more effect than damage. Save or Die is an effect, right? ^_^ You don't get bonus 9th level spells until you reach 28 Wis, so you would expect to have only one 9th level spell at 10th Ur-priest caster level. Personally, would lean more on the cleric (wis) than warlock (cha). Miracle is great, especially since you don't get the 12th level warlock-crafting ability with this build. Make your -own- tomes to improve stats, if need be.

But make a decision. Minimum wis for the cleric spells, or go whole-hog to push those DCs.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 stalos_ Oct 13, 2008 16:54:02	Hi all I have been kicking around an idea for an eldritch disciple for an upcoming game, but I am not sure no some of the specifics. Unfortunately I don't have my exact stats, but I would get just enough WIS to cast my spells, then focus CHA for DCs and damage via divine might feat and then go STR for hit bonuses and damage First: I think that having a high CHA can be cool if I pick up the right feats. Divine might used with my glaive can add some good damage. However, is it worth the investment, or should I put my stats elsewhere. Furthermore, would it be worth a 2 level dip into paladin or some other PrC for divine grace? Second: I am debating whether or not to go ur-priest. While Ur-priest builds are always really strong, having some domains might also really help. Also, if I do go high CHA, then I might go for a lesser asimar for the CHA and WIS bump. Mixing asimar with ur-priest, while totally viable and plausible, might be a little out of character for an asimar. Third: What do you guys think about hellfire warlock IF i don't use one of the common tricks to heal the CON damage (i.e. the soulmeld option or the binder option). I can get a cheap item or use some of my cleric spells to heal the damage pretty easy, but is it too risky being a melee fighter? What other suggestions would you guys offer? Also, just to save you guys some time, I have thought about and decided against divine metamagic and persistent spell. While it would be really, really awesome to have constant divine power, I am ok with spending a turn in combat and the spell slots to uses those good buffs. My main reason for doing this is for simplicity and civility. I will be joining a new group, and while the DM is cool and would most likely allow it, I don't want any to cause any unrest with him or the new players, and I can still find lots of good uses for my turn attempts. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks Stalos
#2 empirate Oct 14, 2008 5:31:41	Dipping Paladin is not an option for 2 reasons: You need to be chaotic or evil to play a Warlock. And dipping Paladin doesn't help a divine caster. Divine Might could be very useful, but I'd consider getting turning/rebuking some way that allows you to continue either divine casting progression or invocation progression. Maybe play a race that can turn/rebuke? Ur-Priest sounds like a very good bet for both divine casting and rebuking. However, remember that you'd need two levels of Ur-Priest, and the reqs for both Ur-Priest and Eldritch Disciple are hard to meet with pure Warlock beforehand. Also, you'd need to be evil. High Charisma is good for Warlocks, but secondary for Glaivelocks: you rely on eldritch blast and utility invocations, so save DCs for invocations is not as important. Remember you'll need high Wis, Dex and Con already. Int doesn't hurt either, so the only thing you can really dump with your Glaivedisciple is Str. High Cha would earn you a lot of turning attempts, however, which would be good not only for Divine Might, but more importantly for Divine Metamagic. DMM might not be your greatest priority with a Glaivelock, but persisting or quickening your divine spells from Ur-Priest or whatever is always nice.
#3 muertog Oct 14, 2008 11:29:17	I -know- this is the char-op board, but if you are looking to avoid the DMM cheese-in-a-can, here is my take on a simple theoretical eldritch disciple: Simplistic: Cleric1/Warlock1/Cleric3/Eldritch Disciple10/Cleric5 Focused attributes would be Cha, Wis, Con. Just makes sure you reach 19+ wis by level 15 or so and you should be golden. You can still achieve 9th level cleric spells (you end up 2 levels behind a straight cleric). You turn undead as a cleric 1 level behind. My version of the cleric/warlock would be Chaotic Neutral, channeling negative energy (inflicts and rebukes), taking the feats Reach Spell, Spontaneous Healer and invocations: Dark One's Own Luck, See Unseen, (trading in a least for a lesser invocation at 11th effective warlock level), Eldritch Chain, Walk Unseen, Fell Flight, The Dead Walk, and Devour Magic, as well as the Gifts Corrupting Blast and Healing Blast. The character would truly be Chaotic Neutral, healing and harming according to his/her whims, holding the true power of life AND death in his/her hands (along with the requisite number of created and controlled undead due to both cleric and warlock abilities). Use Spellweave and/or Reach Spell to chain Greater Dispels, Assay Spell Resistance, Corrupting Blasts, Harm, all while using Fell Flight and Sight Unseen at will for battlefield mobility. And you better have see invisible/true sight in order to target me to dispel the abilities... if it hasn't been dispelled already! Otherwise, I can take 5' adjustments in any of 14 different directions (up, down, left, right, forward, backwards, even diagonals), even with full-round actions. Healing blast: Uses unused turning attempts to change your level 11 5d6 warlock blast into a healing blast instead. You can't apply another essence invocation to that, but it appears there is no limits to the -blast shape- invocation to apply to that healing blast. IE: Chain/Cone/Doom to heal several party members at the same time. Cha being a Warlock focused attribute means you should have a fairly high number of turn attempts a day anyways. Charisma is great for also powering Dark One's Own Luck to boost one save throw. Devour Magic: The ability for a cleric to touch-greater dispel at will (and gain temp HP) is not a bad ability to take. Unfortunately you can't apply Reach Spell since it is a Spell-like effect, not a spell, but still not a bad ability. Dispel your own personal spells for a huge temp HP boost if you are in danger? Heck, target-greater dispel your own magic item, get a boost to your temp HP, the item resumes its ability 1d4 rounds later and your temp HPs last for 1 minute. Practiced Spellcaster if you want to boost your dispel checks a little more (11+4=15, which -isn't- bad for a free, at-will ability). The class gets more cheesy with Ur-Priest. At that point, I might recommend: Paladin of Tyranny 3 (Slaughter if you REALLY prefer, but I like the -2 to opponent saves, no save aura), Warlock 2, Ur-priest 1, Eldritch Disciple 4, Contemplative 1, Eldritch Disciple 4+ (wasted caster levels if non-epic). Finish with your choice of 5 more levels of whatever. At least one more level of warlock if you want the Devour Magic cheesy-goodness (badness?). 4 Levels of Hexblade gives Mettle -and- the option for the hexblade alternate familiar class feature option (Opponents no save -2 to saves and AC). 2 Levels of Blackguard allows you to -again- double-up on the divine grace/dark blessing ability, stacked with the Dark One's Own Luck means never failing a saving throw ever again. Now if we could only fit Evasion in here somewhere... Rogue/Monk 2? Means giving up med/heavy armor (or go Mithril). -this- build really wants to be human for the base, since you are going to be hurting for the skill points in order to enter all the required prestige classes (mostly Ur-priest), although you could also be hurting a little on the attributes (unless you don't -really- care about being in combat with the first couple Paladin levels as much). If the DM is lenient (and INSANE!), rebuke a vampire, turn it into a follower via Leadership, give it Bard levels and the ability Requiem via Libris Mortis in order to inspire courage/greatness your fleet of controlled undead. Just imagine the marching scene from Army of Darkness! Few worries about losing your cohort due to his vampiric abilities, and you a have a vampire tooting a dirge in the midst of a shambling crew of skeletons/zombies/more powerful undead.
#4 empirate Oct 16, 2008 6:23:13	I like your two builds a lot, Muertog. Very viable; the first one is useful and flexible without being overpowered - also, nice flavor; the second one is gold CharOp-wise, and tweakable. But the OP stated he wanted a Glaivelock, so where's that? And another question: the first build you posted seems good as is, but doesn't really need Cha for any class abilities except # of turning attempts. Warlocks only need to be Cha-heavy if they have a lot of invocations forcing saving throws. The invocations you chose don't allow saves (most are effectively self-buffs). Cha is also nice for bluffing and UMD, but all in all, the build doesn't seem to actually need it. Playing that build, I'd probably put Cha at 10 and forget about it. If I need more turning attempts for some reason, I'll take a Nightstick or seven...
#5 muertog Oct 16, 2008 12:30:22	Thanks for the comments. The Cha suggestion is a bit more for the second build than the first. Double and triple dipping in +Cha to saves is worth going Wis > Con > Cha/Int.
#6 stalos_ Oct 16, 2008 17:18:09	Hi guys Thanks for the advice. So I did a little investigating, and I think I can get a bit more out of my charisma. The build will get into Ur-Priest ASAP at level 6, but in the first 5 levels, I am going to squeeze in two levels of warlock, two of paladin of tryanny, and 1 of marshal. With marshal, I will most likely pick the aura that boosts my reflex save, and then I'll also take dark one's own luck when I can. Combined with divine grace, that's CHA to 2 of my saves twice once to the remaining. Plus, Marshal gives me the skill points I need. I can get into Ur-Priest as a Human with only 12 int if I go this route. If I am lucky and get amazing roles, I might drop human for lesser asimar, but that remains to be seen. I plan on taking hellfire warlock, but I might be cheezy and stack blackguard on top, but that is pretty intensely cheezy. My saves will be freaking awesome without blackguard, and I would rather boost my eldritch blast as much as possible. So here is another question. What is my primary stat, WIS or CHA. I can get a amulet of Wisdom to boost my score high enough to get all my spell casting, but it is a little risky. Moreover, I will definitely be taking Warlock invocations that call for saves because I will be using eldritch glaive. While I will definitely put my best two scores in WIS and CHA, i don't know which to prioritize. @Muetog Contemplative would be awesome to squeeze in, but the theme of this build wouldn't really meet it, while this character does worship a God, he does so by dominating others and stealing what divine power he uses from good aligned gods. I might still put contemplative in there, but that is unknown. I suppose that If I got a legacy weapon, I could take legacy champion and boost my hellfire warlock a little extra, but that would be like at level 20, and so I don't really concern myself with levels beyond 15 because who knows If they will get that far. If you have any good Combat-Warlock feat suggestions, please let me know. Thanks Stalos
#7 muertog Oct 16, 2008 18:52:10	The 3rd level of Paladin of Tyranny grants you the aura that gives all enemies a -2 to saves. You -might- want to reconsider it. Alternatively, you could get the 1-2 rogue levels instead for the skill points -and- evasion. Slows your Ur-priest cheesy wonderness by a level, but also upps your survivability quite a bit. And sneak attack damage on top of a touch-inflict is just icing on the cake.
#8 stalos_ Oct 16, 2008 22:12:09	@Meurtog That -2 to saves is nice, but I have to make a choice. Either get the -2 to saves early on, or have and extra invocation and slightly fast warlock progression AND get Dark invocations at lvl 20. If I take that extra pally level, i won't get dark invocations later on, and while theoretically if I have gotten to level 20, it aint that big a deal to go one more, it should still be mentioned. What do you think is the better deal? Stalos P.S. any feat ideas that rock with eldritch glaive. I read the thread on it but it could be clearer and better laid out.
#9 muertog Oct 16, 2008 23:28:30	Problems with Eldritch Glaive is: 1) Have to be in melee range. 2) You cannot wear any armor heavier than light without arcane failure (barring feats). 3) You will be minimum of 9th level before you get your first iterative attack. 4) 10th level you get Eldritch Chain (Yes, you can swap invocations at higher levels) which gives "multiple attacks", but at range. 5) Eldritch Glaive is a Blast shape, so cannot be used with Spellweave. 6) Must use a full-round action. 7) (relatively) Low hit points. Benefits: 1) Touch-attack melee(ish) weapon w/ warlock's blast damage. 2) Attacks of opportunity. Thus, you need to figure a way to maximize the number of attacks and attacks of opportunity. As this is a full-round action, you would have to -start- 10' away from the opponent, get 1 (or 2) reach attacks, 5' adjust backwards and hope the opponent walks forward to attack you so you get 1 more AoO. You really don't have the feats free to take advantage of things like Combat Reflexes, Robilar's Gambit, -and- being the glaive is a reach weapon, you cannot attack adjacent opponents... so the opponent -has- to have a reach weapon as well. This means the opponent (having reach) would only 5' adjust to get in range -and- would not provoke an attack of opportunity. There -is- Short Haft (PHB2), but that requires Weapon Focus in the selected weapon (Glaive?), which means you have sunk 3 feats (Combat Reflexes, Robilar's Gambit, and Weapon Focus Glaive) for a relatively weak trick. Oh, and you -have- to have a decent dex score as well.
#10 stalos_ Oct 17, 2008 0:53:19	@ Muertog #1: Thats no problem, I will take Travel Domain Feat to have lots of movement options. #2: I didn't know warlocks have armor failure above light, but even if they do, there are many, many tricks to lightening the spell failure chance. There was a whole thread on it once that I read, I will have to dig through the archives. #3: Divine Power. That is the nice thing about cleric levels. At the 4th or 5th level of Ur-Priest I will have divine power which helps a ton on that front, even If i have to cast it each time a fight starts. #4 Eldritch Chain is good, nothing to say there. But, you can power attack with the glaive which boost damage. #5 Again, you are right, but I think it is a good trade off as I will be primarily buffing myself with my spells, not attacking. #6:Travel Domain feat allows me the movement I need (Is it called travel devotion or travel domain, i forget) #7:Low hit points sucks, but I will have to find some way to boost them. However, Considering I will have fell flight, I can always hover above ground enemies and whack away with the glaive. Also, If I can get enough tricks to negate the spell failure, which I know is possible cause I have seen it on these boards, then I can get armor spikes and technically threaten my local squares. Taking combat reflexes might not be a bad idea though, cause with righteous might I will have decent reach and can whack people as they approach me. I can get a 14 in dex and them maybe an item to boost it. That isn't ideal, but its a start. But the important question is, is CHA or WIS my primary stat. I just don't know. I can force multiple saves with the glaive, so CHA isn't bad, plus there is a lot of synergy, but more spells are always welcome. Tell what your opinion on this is. Stalos
#11 muertog Oct 17, 2008 1:42:48	Wis is a minimum of 19 by the time you reach max clerical spell progression. That is achievable via items easily, but then you chance the loss of spells (no recovery) if your items are ever suppressed (Dispel magic, anti-magic field, etc). If you are going for warlock save DC invocations (since you want the eld.glaive), you want to push Cha. However, if you are going front-line, you will also want sufficient Con. Wis min 19(or 20), so starting would be 12-16 (not counting level bumps). Con you would want to start around 12-14 Cha would be less important about momentary disruption, since you don't lose your abilities while items are supressed... The save DC will be low until they come back online. Str: Eld.Glaive (and power attack) req. min 13. Likely want more than that, but could rely upon +Str belts. You start running into MAD. Hope your rolls are good. Warlock abilities tend to be more for damage than effect, while cleric ones tend to be more effect than damage. Save or Die is an effect, right? ^_^ You don't get bonus 9th level spells until you reach 28 Wis, so you would expect to have only one 9th level spell at 10th Ur-priest caster level. Personally, would lean more on the cleric (wis) than warlock (cha). Miracle is great, especially since you don't get the 12th level warlock-crafting ability with this build. Make your -own- tomes to improve stats, if need be. But make a decision. Minimum wis for the cleric spells, or go whole-hog to push those DCs.