Any tank builds out there that don't have Paladin?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

squaretangle

Oct 04, 2008 3:19:03
So I'm in 2 separate campaigns at the moment and one of them is forcing me to play the "tank" role. I really do not think I can follow the Paladin honor code, so I'm wondering if there is any viable tank build that can withstand/block a good amount of damage, has decent saves, and does NOT need to deal a whole lot of damage? My group is made up of a bard, a rogue, a warlock, a druid, and a ninja/cleric. As you can see, I'm really the only one who will be up there in the front lines trying to take the hits (hopefully).

I was thinking of maybe perhaps using something to do with a dwarf race, knight, dwarven defender, and deepwarden.

Any thoughts would be appreciated :D
#2

the_shaman

Oct 04, 2008 3:28:33
What books are available? Crusaders (Tome of Battle) , afaik, make insanely good tanks, and psychic warriors (XPH/SRD) are very good at it as well.
#3

squaretangle

Oct 04, 2008 4:21:18
Oops sorry about that :D. Tome of ______s are not allowed. Anything that doesn't completely break the game should be fine. Dragon Magazines are not allowed. 3.0 books used need to be looked over by the DM first.
#4

jaronk

Oct 04, 2008 4:33:03
Too bad, because Crusader was exactly what you want. There's even a dwarven PrC for Crusaders that's awesome for just standing there and smacking people.

Anyway, try a trip based Fighter. Spiked Chain, and trip away.

Also possible is a Shield Bulldozer (Feat Rogue 2/Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6/Warhulk 10 using Shield Charge and Shield Slam to debilitate enemies, weilding a Skillful Spiked Shield). The damage is pretty high there but it's mostly about knocking enemies down and keeping them from being able to get back up. You'll need a Permanent Enlarge Person to qualify for War Hulk though.

JaronK
#5

bowensilverclaw1986

Oct 04, 2008 4:40:56
Oops sorry about that :D. Tome of ______s are not allowed. Anything that doesn't completely break the game should be fine. Dragon Magazines are not allowed. 3.0 books used need to be looked over by the DM first.

And yet you have a Cleric and a Druid
Please tell me the Cleric didn't take more than 1 Ninja level...

Anyway, why are they forcing you to 'tank'? Clerics and Druids are great frontliners.
A wizard would really round out this group though, seems like a better addition than another frontliner to me
#6

squaretangle

Oct 04, 2008 4:56:31
My group is made up of a bard, a rogue, a warlock, a druid, and a ninja/cleric. As you can see, I'm really the only one who will be up there in the front lines trying to take the hits (hopefully).

Well the bard is just gonna do some buffing to whatever, the rogue is new to being a rogue, so he probably won't be as useful as he could be (also because he wants to be more of a bluff/diplomacy talky kind of rogue), the warlock is not gonna be meleeing, the ninja/cleric has terrible stats and will probably want to do about half and half with ninja and cleric. The druid i suppose is the closest to being up there in the frontlines. I really don't think we need more spellcasters <.<. They also said they needed a tank because on the first day of our campaign, the entire team went down to about 2 or 3 hp and the ninja/cleric was unconscious twice. They claimed to have needed more tankers, so i'm joining from the 2nd session and on.

Note: the rogue, and ninja/cleric don't care so much about being optimized, but more for the roleplay.
#7

the_shaman

Oct 04, 2008 6:01:26
I'm pretty sure a psychic warrior is not imbalanced and should be fine unless your DM gets a knee-jerk reaction whenever someone mentions psionics - though even the psion is not as strong as ye olde wizard, and the PW is still more decent. If you go that route, consider picking similar feat chains to a lockdown fighter, and buffs/feats that make you even better at it - such as expansion, strength of my enemy, the stand still feat (btw, great for a fighter as well if you plan to do Attacks of opportunity over a wider area), etc. Healing/protection and mobility powers can also help - a PW with your choice of offensive or defensive precognition (or both), vigor, augmented expansion, SomE, vampiric weapon (not too bad when you're wielding a huge+ greatsword) and form of doom can be a rather nasty opponent.

Maybe not as good as the duskblade in pure damage output (though not too far behind) but much more versatile.
#8

squaretangle

Oct 04, 2008 6:09:22
May i ask for an example build? I'm not very good with this type of class, as I've always played rogue type classes.
#9

the_shaman

Oct 04, 2008 6:48:19
I haven't done so many myself - I tend to focus on arcanists or "cruiserweight" warriors such as rogues or rangers, and most of my DMs weren't keen on allowing additional classes - but thePsychic Warrior guide should be the place to start. He has builds for controlling psy-warriors with halberd or spiked chain you might want to check

Personally, for a build I would probably go human, half-giant, kalashtar or elan PW 14/Sanctified Mind 6 depending on what flavor you want and what books are allowed, taking the SM levels at the first opportunity. Noteworthy feats would be exotic WP (spiked chain), improved buckler defense/shield ward (alternatively you can get an animated shield instead, or rely on the psionic version of the shield spell until then), stand still, combat reflexes, power attack (w. improved bull rush & knockback if you are a goliath or half-giant - both are good ideas if LA buyoff is allowed) etc can all help. If you have decent intelligence, combat expertise + improved trip is all but guaranteed win. If you do not have a lot of feats, ditch sanctified mind.

A human could do:
1. Combat expertise
1 PW bonus: improved trip
1. Human bonus: Jotunbrud can work if you are from the right FR region, otherwise combat reflexes
2 PW bonus: EWP spiked chain (or possibly dwarven warpike)
3. Shield specialization (buckler) (or aberration blood)
5. Improved buckler defense (or inhuman reach - the reason you took aberration blood. Doubled reach for -1 to melee attack - I'm game)
6. Power attack
8. shield ward (or another if you took aberration blood)
9. psychic meditation
11. linked power
12. stand still - from then on you decide. I would definitely include Robilar's Gambit as soon as you can, and a feat or two in expanded knowledge doesn't hurt. If you're using a reach weapon, Short Haft can be quite useful, too. Dodge->mobility->sidestep charge (possibly substituting dodge with midnight dodge and using psycarnum infusion to get an up to +5 dodge bonus to ac/round if you expend your psionic focus) can also work.


If you feel confident enough and have very good wisdom score, a level or two of monk (ideally with the tashalatora feat from Secrets of Sarlona, an Eberron book) can work in addition to or instead of the sanctified mind levels.
#10

squaretangle

Oct 04, 2008 7:24:33
I'm not too sure if the DM allows Psionics actually (only because none of us in the group have every tried using it before). I'm a bit into using knight if possible, however. Does anyone know any decent builds with knight in there maybe?
#11

maulorn

Oct 04, 2008 8:20:32
Do a druid...

Sure you already have a druid...but you can be the tank since the other one is unwilling to...

Really though see if you can get your DM to let you pickup standstill. It is from the psionics book but is not a psionic feat. It will let you control the battlefield by greatly limiting mobility of enemies.

With standstill you are pretty much building around AoO. If you are not able to get standstill, the tactic is still the same except you are tripping to limit mobility.

Take feats that let you control the battlefield...as well as feats that make you more durable.
#12

innabinder

Oct 04, 2008 10:25:31
To borrow a line from Carnivore, try this:

Race: Dwarf. Max out CON.

Ranger 1: [Track], Power Attack
Rgr 1/Barbarian 1:
Rgr 2/Barb 1: [TWF], Extra Rage - use Dwarven Waraxe and Spiked Armor.
Rgr 2/Barb 2: BOOST CON
Rgr 3/Barb 2: Endurance
Rgr 3/Barb 2/Deepwarden 1: Weapon Focus: Dwarven Waraxe
Rgr 3/Barb 2/Dwn 2:
Rgr 3/Barb 2/Dwn 2/Exotic Weapon Master 1: BOOST CON
Rgr 3/Barb 2/Dwn 2/EWM 2: Leap Attack
Rgr 3/Barb 2/Dwn 2/EWM 3:
......
Your skill selections and your setting will guide you from here.
#13

CantripN

Oct 04, 2008 11:55:59
Dread Necromancer 1 / Knight 6 / Fighter 2 / Exotic Weapon Master 1 / Doomlord 10 works just fine with your limits. [url=http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-923028]EPIC version (
#14

squaretangle

Oct 04, 2008 14:59:39
Thanks for all the advice everyone :D
#15

ninjarabbit

Oct 04, 2008 18:25:03
To borrow a line from Carnivore, try this:

Race: Dwarf. Max out CON.

Ranger 1: [Track], Power Attack
Rgr 1/Barbarian 1:
Rgr 2/Barb 1: [TWF], Extra Rage - use Dwarven Waraxe and Spiked Armor.
Rgr 2/Barb 2: BOOST CON
Rgr 3/Barb 2: Endurance
Rgr 3/Barb 2/Deepwarden 1: Weapon Focus: Dwarven Waraxe
Rgr 3/Barb 2/Dwn 2:
Rgr 3/Barb 2/Dwn 2/Exotic Weapon Master 1: BOOST CON
Rgr 3/Barb 2/Dwn 2/EWM 2: Leap Attack
Rgr 3/Barb 2/Dwn 2/EWM 3:
......
Your skill selections and your setting will guide you from here.

I'll second this and add 2 things. First become a dragonborn for an +2 to con. Second is to take the steadfast determination feat so you can dump wis since you'll now have your con score dictating your will saves.
#16

muertog

Oct 05, 2008 2:05:51
A fun build that I am trying out is a Barbarian/Primeval (from Frostburn). Requires 3 feats, +8 BAB, and 5 skill levels in three barb-class skills.

Over 10 levels of the PrC, gives 4 uses of a Dire or Prehistoric (approved by DM) wild-shape that adds to, not supplants, existing stats. Wild Shape lasts minutes/level, so should be more than sufficient for any encounter. You lose 3 points in Int and Cha, but gain +3 to all other stats in any form. I picked the Dire Ape form, so I can engage in "drop weapon, change, pick up weapon" shenanigans.

Level 20 stats are expected to be:
Pre-transformed
Str: 20
Dex: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 16
Con: 18
Cha: 8

Post-transformed
Str: 38
Dex: 22
Int: 12
Wis: 16
Con: 26
Cha: 8

Of course, this is -prior- to any magic, buffs, or equipment. Get a nice Beastskin armor and/or a friendly party mage to keep you buffed. Your fort saves should be enough to keep you from Save or Die, you have enough Con to ignore most Reflex-based saves, and you can either use the "sub con for wis" feat, or stack +will-save feats. You can also deal significant damage while standing around being a portable damage sponge. Grapple isn't out of the question, either.

More exact build can be provided, but this is just a general idea.
#17

kurashu

Oct 05, 2008 13:15:31
Another thing you might want to try is a wildshaping ranger. Take five levels of that, then ten of master of many forms, four of warshaper and then a free level (fist of the forest is a good choice). Alternatively, Ranger 5/Master of Many Forms 10/Scout 1/Daggerspell Shaper 2/Warshaper 2 and get some awesome daggers and shape into a form that has claws.
#18

archerpwr

Oct 05, 2008 18:52:37
Something like this (prototype, just look at the elements):
Changeling
Knight 3/ Fighter 1/ Warshaper 4/ Monk 2/ Warmind 10

Use ideas from this.

You should be able to end up with a very good threat area and be able to block charge lanes moderately well with standstill.
#19

thehumandynamo

Oct 08, 2008 12:29:21
Check my sig and use the isnanely high AC tank that's there if you don't want to get hit. Can easily get your AC into the 60s (touch, flat footed and regular) with very very little work.
#20

archerpwr

Oct 08, 2008 13:04:03
Check my sig and use the isnanely high AC tank that's there if you don't want to get hit. Can easily get your AC into the 60s (touch, flat footed and regular) with very very little work.

Which doesn't help you protect people at all. High AC makes people target the squishies.