anyone ever look at the zern? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

anyone ever look at the zern?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
turok124
Nov 08, 2008 17:26:25 it's a race in Monster Manual 4
ECL 15 (8hd, LA +7)

Nutshell:
really shapeshifter heavy, has a touch attack that can be used at range as well, can adjust his size, increase stats, increase speed, alter self as a supernatural ability, transmutation spells have +4 DC, and immune to almost any fortitude saving effect.

makes me think of mini-humanoid-proteans.

Warshaper prc seems like a no-brainer. Didn't know if there were any other interesting tricks.

gessalt could be more fun...
#2
CantripN
Nov 08, 2008 20:13:23 Seems interesting. The LA is too high in my opinion, though.

Focused Transmuter 3 / Master Specialist 4 / Mage of the Arcane Order 10 / Archmage 3 // Zern 15 / Warshaper 5

How's that?
#3
ancientdragon
Nov 09, 2008 13:22:42
Seems interesting. The LA is too high in my opinion, though.

What about using Unearthed Arcana to low down the LA?
#4
deathmond
Nov 09, 2008 15:13:36 The LA's too high to get rid of more than 1 before epic, iirc.
#5
idontmuchcareforit
Nov 09, 2008 15:18:02 LA 7 doesn't even get reduced by 1 until level 21.
#6
deathmond
Nov 09, 2008 15:20:27 So I was mis-remembering. Good to know.
#7
turok124
Nov 10, 2008 0:38:19 well, thanks for the look-see.

gessalt seems the only practical way to go.

transmuter20//zern 15/warshaper 5 works (depending how you rule monster levels)
#8
syrazemyla
Nov 10, 2008 15:42:31 Actually, it doesn't have the shapechanger subtype and it only has Alter Self, so it can't pick up warshaper. That's what made me go ";_;" when I first saw it.
#9
emansdrawkcab
Nov 10, 2008 17:10:34 Yes, but with one side being a caster, it can qualify by being able to cast Polymorph. Also, why Transmuter 20 when you can stick a 10 level PrC in there, after level 5? Or two 5 level PrCs...
#10
turok124
Nov 10, 2008 19:32:31 i was too lazy to throw in a caster prc. And i didn't think it HAD to have the shapechange subtype, i thought alter-self was good enough...

i'll have to recheck the wording
#11
emansdrawkcab
Nov 10, 2008 23:20:23 While it may not have the prerequisites to enter Warshaper, a reasonable DM might rule that it could enter the class anyway. The flavor is all there is all I'm saying.
#12
turok124
Nov 11, 2008 22:41:04 after looking at the warshaper text, one of the prerequisites is "the ability to change shape as a supernatural ability" (not EXACT wording, but the important stuff is there).

alter self as a supernatural ability WOULD qualify
#13
syrazemyla
Nov 18, 2008 6:29:45 Except it specifically says that alter self doesn't qualify.
#14
BloodDragon
Nov 18, 2008 9:59:17
Except it specifically says that alter self doesn't qualify.

Are you reffering to how it disallows the Alternate Form ability?
Alter self is different from Alternate Form and still qualifies since it's being used as Su.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 turok124 Nov 08, 2008 17:26:25	it's a race in Monster Manual 4 ECL 15 (8hd, LA +7) Nutshell: really shapeshifter heavy, has a touch attack that can be used at range as well, can adjust his size, increase stats, increase speed, alter self as a supernatural ability, transmutation spells have +4 DC, and immune to almost any fortitude saving effect. makes me think of mini-humanoid-proteans. Warshaper prc seems like a no-brainer. Didn't know if there were any other interesting tricks. gessalt could be more fun...
#2 CantripN Nov 08, 2008 20:13:23	Seems interesting. The LA is too high in my opinion, though. Focused Transmuter 3 / Master Specialist 4 / Mage of the Arcane Order 10 / Archmage 3 // Zern 15 / Warshaper 5 How's that?
#3 ancientdragon Nov 09, 2008 13:22:42	Seems interesting. The LA is too high in my opinion, though. What about using Unearthed Arcana to low down the LA?
#4 deathmond Nov 09, 2008 15:13:36	The LA's too high to get rid of more than 1 before epic, iirc.
#5 idontmuchcareforit Nov 09, 2008 15:18:02	LA 7 doesn't even get reduced by 1 until level 21.
#6 deathmond Nov 09, 2008 15:20:27	So I was mis-remembering. Good to know.
#7 turok124 Nov 10, 2008 0:38:19	well, thanks for the look-see. gessalt seems the only practical way to go. transmuter20//zern 15/warshaper 5 works (depending how you rule monster levels)
#8 syrazemyla Nov 10, 2008 15:42:31	Actually, it doesn't have the shapechanger subtype and it only has Alter Self, so it can't pick up warshaper. That's what made me go ";_;" when I first saw it.
#9 emansdrawkcab Nov 10, 2008 17:10:34	Yes, but with one side being a caster, it can qualify by being able to cast Polymorph. Also, why Transmuter 20 when you can stick a 10 level PrC in there, after level 5? Or two 5 level PrCs...
#10 turok124 Nov 10, 2008 19:32:31	i was too lazy to throw in a caster prc. And i didn't think it HAD to have the shapechange subtype, i thought alter-self was good enough... i'll have to recheck the wording
#11 emansdrawkcab Nov 10, 2008 23:20:23	While it may not have the prerequisites to enter Warshaper, a reasonable DM might rule that it could enter the class anyway. The flavor is all there is all I'm saying.
#12 turok124 Nov 11, 2008 22:41:04	after looking at the warshaper text, one of the prerequisites is "the ability to change shape as a supernatural ability" (not EXACT wording, but the important stuff is there). alter self as a supernatural ability WOULD qualify
#13 syrazemyla Nov 18, 2008 6:29:45	Except it specifically says that alter self doesn't qualify.
#14 BloodDragon Nov 18, 2008 9:59:17	Except it specifically says that alter self doesn't qualify. Are you reffering to how it disallows the Alternate Form ability? Alter self is different from Alternate Form and still qualifies since it's being used as Su.