Anything on the Savant? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Anything on the Savant?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kell_kheraptis
Apr 21, 2009 10:49:18 Has anyone found any use for this class from Dragon Compendium? It feels like a Chameleon-lite to me, minus the pwnage :P I tried a search and came up with a zillion and one threads for Illithid Savant or Elemental Savant
#2
naanomi
Apr 21, 2009 11:21:29 Hey, don't forget Alchemical Savant! ;)
#3
jameswilliamogle
Apr 21, 2009 11:28:18 Nobody really uses the DComp stuff except for some feats, unfortunately.

I also like the Sha-Ir (its my second favorite caster, actually, just behind the Dread Necromancer). Maybe I'll take a second look at the Savant when I get home.
#4
kell_kheraptis
Apr 21, 2009 11:34:00
Nobody really uses the DComp stuff except for some feats, unfortunately.

I also like the Sha-Ir (its my second favorite caster, actually, just behind the Dread Necromancer). Maybe I'll take a second look at the Savant when I get home.

They get scaling arcane, divine spells, and scaling sneak attack, plus all skills as class skills. Also, as someone posted a while back, they were before the revision to psionics, so a homebrew adds manifesting beginning at level 15. Arguably you could progress the spellcasting in epic up to 9th level spells, making a semi-effective triplecaster, though as usual for those types you'll be behind everyone by a few levels or more (and feat starved until you've spent the requisite 6 feats to get to 9th+Epic Spellcasting). For like level 25+ though, might be a worthwhile class for a know-it-all, do-it-all, smart arse type character?
#5
sofawall
Apr 21, 2009 13:33:57 Seems conceptually similar to the Factotum.

I like Factotum.

I must see this "Savant" you speak of.
#6
atomickitkat
Apr 21, 2009 21:38:25 Hmm. It could qualify as a Dual Caster(would that then give it +2 effective levels for both sides?), but the spells cap off at 4th level, meaning you might want to slip out to some other class after that. On the other hand, maybe it can qualify for some alternative casting(Sublime Chord, was it?) earlier? That could then be progressed via other +1 to casting class PrCs to achieve 9th level casting quicker than others. Oh yeah, and since you don't gain the Divine casting till 10th anyways, that kind of moots my idea about early entry.
#7
widow
Apr 21, 2009 23:13:57 There is a major problem with this class for multiclassing. It does not get arcane spell casting until 5th level and divine until 10th level. Without 10 levels in the base class, PrC progression will never unlock the savants divine spell casting. So the base of any build will be savant 10 if you want the divine casting.

1) Sublime chord is out because you need bardic music on top of the 10 savant levels. So minimum you are looking at Savant 10/ Bard or PrC Bard 1/ Sublime chord 1/Mystic theurge assuming you use tricks to get second level divine spells (alternate Spell source feat).

2) Ur priest could work but you would end up a much slower Ur-Priest than normal. You would need your first Ur-Priest level before your 10th savant, and you could not Mystic theurge it until you after you get that 10th level.

Savant 8/ Ur-Priest 1/ savant 2/ Mystic Theurge 9

Ur caster level 15, savant caster level 19 (before feats)

3) Your next option would be going psionics. The ardent base class can learn any power up to its manifester level.

Savant 10/ Ardent 2/ Arcane Psionic Theurge 8 (or whatever it is called)
Take the Practiced manifester feat for one. Next beg your DM to allow the Illumians racial ability that adds +2 caster level to all your casting classes (up to your character level as max) to apply to psionics. Take the Enhanced Sigil powers feat increasing that +2 into a +3. This will net you Caster level 20 for savant and manifester level 17 to gain access to level 9 powers. Your power choices will be extremely limited though, since you will only have two mantle lists to choose from. This may require you to get psychic surgery to pick up more lower level powers from other psions.

4) The final option requires access to dragon magazine #280 which has the Eldrich Master class. We are also going to need the Alternative Spell Source feat which lets you convert your arcane to divine and divine to arcane spells. Now base you need the 10 levels of savant again for divine and arcane casting. We want class progression for spells to reach 15th or 18th to net at least level 4 arcane spells and level 3 to 4 divine spells. We will use alternative spell source to qualify for mystic theurge before we have level 2 divine spells. We will use mystic theurge to get double progression.

Now Eldrich Master comes in. At level 4 and 8 in this class we get to add another spell casters spell list to our classes spell list. These spells are cast as arcane spells, but as worded they would be added to both our arcane and divine spell casting spell lists. Also at level 3, 6, and 9 the eldrich master gets a spell slot one level higher than the highest spell he can cast. He also learns one spell at this level so he can cast something. The eldrich master also adds its level to arcane spell casting classes for determining the level of effectness of the spell. Basically all spell variables like damage, range, and such go up, but not caster level for SR. Finally the eldrich master grants a number of bonus spells known (roughly 8 first level, 4 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th). The build:

Savant 10/ Mystic Theurge 4 (double selection of savant)/ Eldrich Master 6

Feats Alternative Spells source, Practiced Spell caster, Able Learner if human

Spell progression will be to 18th level so you get 4th level arcane and divine spells. Also Eldrich Master will net you a 5th and 6th level spell slot (or one arcane and one divine 5th level slot). Caster level will be 20th, with caster level being 26th level effectively with Eldrich Master. Plus you will be able to choose spells from another casting classes spell list, getting bonus spells known along the way. Cleric or Sorceror being the most likely lists.

Again alot of work and multiple dragon mag sources.

To highlight the Eldrich master fun:
I have suggested a similar build with Eldrich master, cleric, and the arcane schooling feat from Faerun that gives you a limited number of arcane spells cast a day.

Cleric 5/ Eldrich Master 4/Mystic Theurge 4 Base

Eldrich master only requires the ability to cast arcane spells (arcane schooling) and does not say the spell list added must be to an arcane class. This makes your cleric an arcane and divine class at level 9 since all spells added are cast as arcane spells. After you double progress cleric back up to full level, arcane or divine PrC's are all available or you can just keep on double progressing the class.

Maybe continueing with:
Abjuration champion 5/ Sanctified One (Wee Jes) 2 (Lots of spell armor) or
DweomerKeeper 6/ Monk 1 or
Mystic Thurge 3/ Heirophant 4 or

Druid 5/Eldrich Master 4/ Arcane Heirophant 8/ Master of Many Forms 3

Gestalt Build

Beguiler 20// Cleric 1/ Battle Dancer 1/ Bloodline 2/ Bard 1/ Eldrich Master 4/Mystic Wander 1/Sublime Chord 2/ Dweomerkeeper 8

Select beguiler for sublime chord spell casting which sets caster level to 32/ 36 effective. Beguiler can spontaneously cast all beguiler and clerical spells. Sublime chord has bard/cleric/ and sorc spells.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kell_kheraptis Apr 21, 2009 10:49:18	Has anyone found any use for this class from Dragon Compendium? It feels like a Chameleon-lite to me, minus the pwnage :P I tried a search and came up with a zillion and one threads for Illithid Savant or Elemental Savant
#2 naanomi Apr 21, 2009 11:21:29	Hey, don't forget Alchemical Savant! ;)
#3 jameswilliamogle Apr 21, 2009 11:28:18	Nobody really uses the DComp stuff except for some feats, unfortunately. I also like the Sha-Ir (its my second favorite caster, actually, just behind the Dread Necromancer). Maybe I'll take a second look at the Savant when I get home.
#4 kell_kheraptis Apr 21, 2009 11:34:00	Nobody really uses the DComp stuff except for some feats, unfortunately. I also like the Sha-Ir (its my second favorite caster, actually, just behind the Dread Necromancer). Maybe I'll take a second look at the Savant when I get home. They get scaling arcane, divine spells, and scaling sneak attack, plus all skills as class skills. Also, as someone posted a while back, they were before the revision to psionics, so a homebrew adds manifesting beginning at level 15. Arguably you could progress the spellcasting in epic up to 9th level spells, making a semi-effective triplecaster, though as usual for those types you'll be behind everyone by a few levels or more (and feat starved until you've spent the requisite 6 feats to get to 9th+Epic Spellcasting). For like level 25+ though, might be a worthwhile class for a know-it-all, do-it-all, smart arse type character?
#5 sofawall Apr 21, 2009 13:33:57	Seems conceptually similar to the Factotum. I like Factotum. I must see this "Savant" you speak of.
#6 atomickitkat Apr 21, 2009 21:38:25	Hmm. It could qualify as a Dual Caster(would that then give it +2 effective levels for both sides?), but the spells cap off at 4th level, meaning you might want to slip out to some other class after that. On the other hand, maybe it can qualify for some alternative casting(Sublime Chord, was it?) earlier? That could then be progressed via other +1 to casting class PrCs to achieve 9th level casting quicker than others. Oh yeah, and since you don't gain the Divine casting till 10th anyways, that kind of moots my idea about early entry.
#7 widow Apr 21, 2009 23:13:57	There is a major problem with this class for multiclassing. It does not get arcane spell casting until 5th level and divine until 10th level. Without 10 levels in the base class, PrC progression will never unlock the savants divine spell casting. So the base of any build will be savant 10 if you want the divine casting. 1) Sublime chord is out because you need bardic music on top of the 10 savant levels. So minimum you are looking at Savant 10/ Bard or PrC Bard 1/ Sublime chord 1/Mystic theurge assuming you use tricks to get second level divine spells (alternate Spell source feat). 2) Ur priest could work but you would end up a much slower Ur-Priest than normal. You would need your first Ur-Priest level before your 10th savant, and you could not Mystic theurge it until you after you get that 10th level. Savant 8/ Ur-Priest 1/ savant 2/ Mystic Theurge 9 Ur caster level 15, savant caster level 19 (before feats) 3) Your next option would be going psionics. The ardent base class can learn any power up to its manifester level. Savant 10/ Ardent 2/ Arcane Psionic Theurge 8 (or whatever it is called) Take the Practiced manifester feat for one. Next beg your DM to allow the Illumians racial ability that adds +2 caster level to all your casting classes (up to your character level as max) to apply to psionics. Take the Enhanced Sigil powers feat increasing that +2 into a +3. This will net you Caster level 20 for savant and manifester level 17 to gain access to level 9 powers. Your power choices will be extremely limited though, since you will only have two mantle lists to choose from. This may require you to get psychic surgery to pick up more lower level powers from other psions. 4) The final option requires access to dragon magazine #280 which has the Eldrich Master class. We are also going to need the Alternative Spell Source feat which lets you convert your arcane to divine and divine to arcane spells. Now base you need the 10 levels of savant again for divine and arcane casting. We want class progression for spells to reach 15th or 18th to net at least level 4 arcane spells and level 3 to 4 divine spells. We will use alternative spell source to qualify for mystic theurge before we have level 2 divine spells. We will use mystic theurge to get double progression. Now Eldrich Master comes in. At level 4 and 8 in this class we get to add another spell casters spell list to our classes spell list. These spells are cast as arcane spells, but as worded they would be added to both our arcane and divine spell casting spell lists. Also at level 3, 6, and 9 the eldrich master gets a spell slot one level higher than the highest spell he can cast. He also learns one spell at this level so he can cast something. The eldrich master also adds its level to arcane spell casting classes for determining the level of effectness of the spell. Basically all spell variables like damage, range, and such go up, but not caster level for SR. Finally the eldrich master grants a number of bonus spells known (roughly 8 first level, 4 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th). The build: Savant 10/ Mystic Theurge 4 (double selection of savant)/ Eldrich Master 6 Feats Alternative Spells source, Practiced Spell caster, Able Learner if human Spell progression will be to 18th level so you get 4th level arcane and divine spells. Also Eldrich Master will net you a 5th and 6th level spell slot (or one arcane and one divine 5th level slot). Caster level will be 20th, with caster level being 26th level effectively with Eldrich Master. Plus you will be able to choose spells from another casting classes spell list, getting bonus spells known along the way. Cleric or Sorceror being the most likely lists. Again alot of work and multiple dragon mag sources. To highlight the Eldrich master fun: I have suggested a similar build with Eldrich master, cleric, and the arcane schooling feat from Faerun that gives you a limited number of arcane spells cast a day. Cleric 5/ Eldrich Master 4/Mystic Theurge 4 Base Eldrich master only requires the ability to cast arcane spells (arcane schooling) and does not say the spell list added must be to an arcane class. This makes your cleric an arcane and divine class at level 9 since all spells added are cast as arcane spells. After you double progress cleric back up to full level, arcane or divine PrC's are all available or you can just keep on double progressing the class. Maybe continueing with: Abjuration champion 5/ Sanctified One (Wee Jes) 2 (Lots of spell armor) or DweomerKeeper 6/ Monk 1 or Mystic Thurge 3/ Heirophant 4 or Druid 5/Eldrich Master 4/ Arcane Heirophant 8/ Master of Many Forms 3 Gestalt Build Beguiler 20// Cleric 1/ Battle Dancer 1/ Bloodline 2/ Bard 1/ Eldrich Master 4/Mystic Wander 1/Sublime Chord 2/ Dweomerkeeper 8 Select beguiler for sublime chord spell casting which sets caster level to 32/ 36 effective. Beguiler can spontaneously cast all beguiler and clerical spells. Sublime chord has bard/cleric/ and sorc spells.