Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dr_rocktopus Mar 30, 2009 17:34:33	Inspired by: keithio;18209443 wrote:
#2 keithio Mar 30, 2009 17:54:53	I'm not familiar with War Weaver, but it looks like your class levels are good. You're taking the first 10 in the wrong order though, should be: BattleSorcerer5/WarriorSkald1/AbjurantChampion1/WarWeaver1/ArcaneArcher2/SublimeChord1/AbjurantChampion4/WarWeaver4/SacredExorcist1 Sneak that first war weaver in before SC, because it doesn't advance casting.
#3 dr_rocktopus Mar 30, 2009 18:03:08	Oooh, doh. Increased shininess detected. Anyone got any feelings regarding domain spontaneity + domain access? Or a better route to heal spells? as it stands, I'm inclined to shift it to: BattleSorcerer5/WarriorSkald1/AbjurantChampion1/WarWeaver1/ArcaneArcher2/SublimeChord1/WarWeaver4/SacredExorcist1/AbjurantChampion4 So that you can get domain spontaneity early, which would, as I read it, let you burn spells from either of your sets of spells.
#4 keithio Mar 30, 2009 18:53:56	What level is it being played at? I ask because SC really needs something to fix its caster level ASAP, but if you're starting at 20 that hardly matters. I'm not really sure why you have SE in there, I assume you need it for turn undead, so I won't take it out. That said, try this: HumanParagon1/Wizard1/Bard1/HumanParagon2/UnseenSeer2/AbjurantChampion1/ArcaneArcher2/SublimeChord1/WarWeaver5/AbjurantChampion4 I don't see why you're trying to use SC in this in the first place though. Honestly, I recommend just being a wizard and not even trying for 16 BAB. Wizard3/MasterSpecialist2/Incantatrix3/WarWeaver5/SacredExorcist1/ArcaneArcher2/(Incantatrix/MasterSpecialist/Archmage)4 EDIT: And you can't qualify for warrior skald with 5 levels of BattleSorc... you need 9 perform ranks, you have a max of 4 =(
#5 ninjarabbit Mar 30, 2009 19:06:29	fighter1/wizard6/spellsword1/abjurantchampion5/arcanearcher2/sacredexorcist4/dragonslayer1 16 BAB, 17 CL, and you can lop antimagic fields all day long (until your run out of spell slots at least)
#6 keithio Mar 30, 2009 19:26:06	HumanParagon1/Wizard1/Spellthief1/Bard1/HumanParagon2/UnseenSeer2/WarWeaver1/ArcaneArcher1/SublimeChord1/WarWeaver4/ArcaneArcher1/SacredExorcist1/Incantatrix3 Because once you're below 16 BAB it doesn't really matter. Using Master Spellthief is much more useful than AbjCh5, and Incantatrix3 pwns. Snagging hunter's eye isn't too bad either. Also, trap finding and better skill points. Pretty annoying having to fit WarWeaver5/ArcaneArcher2/SacredExorcist1 into a build, but there you have it. EDIT: Again, your current entry is illegal due to warriorskald skill reqs
#7 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 4:21:47	Well, gimme a second. Isn't there a feat that adds perform to your class skill list? Sacred Exorcist and by extension battle sorcerer were both there in an attempt to get a hold of healing domain + domain spontaneity. As I've re-read it, it doesn't seem functional RAW, so both of those can go. Only reqs now are: Arcane Archer 2/War Weaver 5, 9th level spells and ideally access to arcane fusion. There are such things, unfortunately, guess what? They're from flipping dragon magazine, and they require perform. Either that or they aren't on crystal keep. Halp Halp!
#8 carnivore Mar 31, 2009 5:33:36	try this: Bard 8/ Arcane Archer 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ War weaver 5/ Ruathar 3 :D
#9 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 6:20:27	I'm at a bit of a loss regarding your choice of ruathar?
#10 unundindur Mar 31, 2009 6:51:42	Ruathar? That is an emmergency class only taken when you cannot qualify for anything else :P Why not abjurant champion? Even three levels is sweet for AC and BaB and hp.
#11 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 7:02:34	Yeah, I know, that was my thought, but Carnivore normally has reasons. My impulse is something simple and elegant. Not caring about heal spells makes life far easier.
#12 carnivore Mar 31, 2009 8:13:25	Abjurant Champion would be better... Ruathar simply to allow for more options, reqs are so easy to qualify for..... also it was right before i when to work this morning(had to punch in at 7:00... but needed to drive there) Storm Singer(Stormwrack) would even be better for Bardic Music..... Spell Singer would be best for All Bardic stuff, and gives Spontaneous Enchantment casting also Bards can Heal with.... Cure Light,Mod,Ser... Arcane versions :D
#13 pithica Mar 31, 2009 8:30:01	3.0 Cosmopolitan grants access to a single skill as a class skill always. Human Paragon 1 lets you pick a single skill as a class skill always. Able Learner allows you to pay half-price for cross-class skills, effectively making them class skills once a single class that you take has it. Artist gives a boost to Perform, and I think it grants access to perform as a class skill, but it's been a while. Personally, my general 'Gish' build looks like... Human Paragon 1/Fighter 1/Wizard 2/Human Paragon +2/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Incantatrix 4/Eldritch Knight 4 That gives you a caster level of 17, BAB of 16, Persist cheese, a bunch of bonus feats, and all the AbC goodness. I usually throw Arcane Disciple-Competition on top of it for DP, Righteous Might, and Greater Visage of the Deity (all persistable). The only downside to the above build is an extremely poor reflex save, which I usually help cover with a Weasel Familiar. I almost always go with a Goliath Greathammer to pair with Greater Mighty Wallop for somewhere in the neighborhood of 6d8 base damage. That may not be the flavor your going for, though.
#14 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 8:51:10	That's very close to my general gish build, varying only in a few particulars. Unfortunately, this is a specialist gish designed to hunt mages using arcane archer and antimagic field combined with glyph-seal cheese to do really unpleasant things. The issue is that I've been mulling it over, and I'm just not seeing a reliable way for even another caster with ninth level spells to nail A Real Wizard with an arrow... This was an attempt to try and discern if it was doable at all in the first place. Warweaver was originally for arcane fusion related cheese, and so that the archer could spend his or her time working on killing casters while still doing something for the party as a whole to protect them.
#15 keithio Mar 31, 2009 13:00:47	I strongly recommend: Bard4/Crusader1/Spellsword1/AbjurantChampion2/ArcaneArcher2/SublimeChord1/AbjurantChampion3/WarWeaver5/DragonSlayer1 Pulls off 16BAB and 9ths
#16 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 13:03:00	Sold! does this leveling schema seem okay to you? Earth spell or similar early entry for war weaver. Bard4/Crusader1/Spellsword1/AbjurantChampion1/WarWeaver1/ArcaneArcher2/SublimeChord1/WarWeaver4/AbjurantChampion4/DragonSlayer1
#17 keithio Mar 31, 2009 13:18:43	If you're going to abuse earth spell, you can do a lot better than that.
#18 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 13:26:13	I... suppose so. Any ideas? Sorry to be so reliant, but my brain is pretty shot from juggling too much state. Huge CS project, and working on the war weaver handbook pretty exclusively. I'd reach for Imp Power Symbol: Krau but we're stuck as an elf to qualify for arcane archer.
#19 keithio Mar 31, 2009 13:46:49	You can do anything you want with fractional bab and cheezy spell req entry. Paladin2/Bard2/Crusader1/Spellsword1/AbjurantChampion1/WarWeaver1/ArcaneArcher2/SublimeChord1/WarWeaver4/AbjurantChampion4/SacredExorcist1 Disclaimer: Anyone performing abusive PRC entry deserves to be shot. Edit: Minor alignment issues. Crusader could easily be switched for barbarian.
#20 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 13:49:28	Disclaimer: Anyone performing abusive PRC entry deserves to be shot. Well, there's not a separate theoretical CO board anymore...
#21 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 14:20:52	I guess early entry would be: bard1/crusader1/eldritchknight5 warweaver1/ArcaneArcher2 sublimechord1/WarWeaver4/AbjurantChampion5 bab: 17 You'd need sanctum spell and earth spell at level one, so that's three feats eaten, and it also makes him unplayable for most of the early game. Ouch. Better ideas for non-early entry are definitely welcome, but I'd like to have a really solid early entry version alongside a non-early version.
#22 jameswilliamogle Mar 31, 2009 14:37:49	Bard 8 / Arcane Archer 2 / Sublime Chord 2 / War Weaver 5 / Anything 3 Use an Aptitude Skillful Bow to get +15 BAB. Feels very simple to me.
#23 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 14:53:28	I now feel very silly for overlooking that entirely. Thanks James! Boink. bard6/abjurantchampion1/warweaver1/arcane archer2 sublime chord1/war weaver 4/abjurantchampion4/spellsword1 this requires partial bab stacking, unfortunately, but no other early entry hacks whatsoever. It has Bab16, CL17, 3rd level bard spells and 9th level Sublime chord spells. Good\bad\opinions\things _I_ missed? Sorry if I bugged you, Keithio. First posted, formatted, credited.
#24 keithio Mar 31, 2009 15:23:10	I now feel very silly for overlooking that entirely. Thanks James! Boink. bard6/abjurantchampion1/warweaver1/arcane archer2 sublime chord1/war weaver 4/abjurantchampion4/spellsword1 this requires partial bab stacking, unfortunately, but no other early entry hacks whatsoever. It has Bab16, CL17, 3rd level bard spells and 9th level Sublime chord spells. Good\bad\opinions\things _I_ missed? Sorry if I bugged you, Keithio. First posted, formatted, credited. Good luck qualifying for AC with Bard6's 4.5 BAB. Bard4/fullBAB1/Spellsword1/AbjCh2/ArcaneArcher2/SublimeChord1/AbjCh3/WarWeaver5/SublimeChord1 Is probably the best non cheezy way to do it.
#25 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 15:36:36	One of these days, I will not be an idiot. Today is not that day. Bard 6 /Spellsword 1/ War Weaver 1 / Arcane Archer2 / Sublime Chord 1 / War Weaver 4 / Abjurant Champion 5 fixes it with no loss of function, but much loss of face.
#26 keithio Mar 31, 2009 16:39:54	One of these days, I will not be an idiot. Today is not that day. Bard 6 /Spellsword 1/ War Weaver 1 / Arcane Archer2 / Sublime Chord 1 / War Weaver 4 / Abjurant Champion 5 fixes it with no loss of function, but much loss of face. Taking 3 proficiency feats to qualify for spellsword?? Archery is quite feat dependant, I really wouldn't recommend it.
#27 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 16:50:40	Well, we won't be doing a terrible amount of archery. I'm not delighted by the idea of hammering down that many feats for spellsword either. It doesn't matter though because we can't qual for it since we lack all the required proficiencies and no one feat grants them. All that works is Thrall to Demo or orcus... Or an early entry with sanctum spell, and using abjurant champion.
#28 keithio Mar 31, 2009 16:56:21	Militia from (Player's guide to Faerun? Or maybe races of faerun) grants martial weapon proficiency: all. It's the shiny feat that makes the squeeky clean wizard5/eldKnig10/AbjCh5 gish possible.
#29 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 17:18:54	We'd still need proficiency with all armors, heavy included. That's Militia prof: medium prof: heavy Lawd no. No, at that point, you either snap and play a chaotic evil character for thrall of demogorgon or you just use sanctum spell.
#30 keithio Mar 31, 2009 17:25:43	Just to point it out since you didn't mention it, dragonslayer from draconimonomimonomimonominocon gives +1bab, +1casting, some other stuff, armor and Martial proficiencies, and takes 5 bab dodge and ironwill to enter. And iron will comes for free from a magical location in complete scoundrel I think it is. Edit: and why do you need pow attack/cleave?
#31 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 17:36:01	You don't, my brain is just melty still. I need to resolve that. RE:dragonslayer It's true, but as mentioned we lack +5 bab at the critical juncture using this build. It's really very frustrating.
#32 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 18:19:17	Worth noting that you really don't want to use earth spell to get into War Weaver, because if heightened spells via earth spell count for pre-reqs, then they certainly count against you when trying to cast into the tapestry. In other words, you'll want to either retrain it (dubious) or fly all the time (dubious and means you wasted two feats). Sanctum spell is equally problematic, but for different reasons that are well discussed already. You'll want sanctum spell later though, so that's what I've opted to indicate. I recommend purchasing a portable foxhole and designating it as your sanctum, buying a giant eagle mount, and a nice curiously flat saddle. ;)
#33 keithio Mar 31, 2009 19:50:35	And I recommend not being silly and playing real d&d =p
#34 unundindur Apr 01, 2009 4:19:47	If you happen to be an elf, take Otherworldly instead of Militia. That feat makes you an outsider (which is awesome cheese right there), grants all martial weapons proficiency (read under "Native outsider in the MM), darkvision 60 feet and +2 diplomacy. Not to bad for a single feat