Since I am new to DnD and I've heard tell that this class is underpowered, I turn to you for help in maximizing the potential of a class that, from my untrained eye, looks to be able to exploit every aspect of Sneak Attacks. After using my Bard's various spells to help the Rogue, I figured that a class that could do both would be brutal in combat, and have enough skill points to be useful out of it.
Here's the link to the SRD to refresh your memory
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/arcaneTrickster.htm
Here's what you have to work with:
WoTC 3.5 Books only; I have access to the core three, Complete Arcane, Complete Warrior, Savage Species, Psionic Handbook, and probably some more stuff, but it all looks offical,
Current Status: Level 7 party, but I want this guy to last. He isn't going to be a Trickster until level 9, and he wont be in play until my Bard kicks off, but I like to be prepared, what can I say
House Rules:
Multiclass Rules: PrCs count for multiclass penalties. I dont know if this is the rules for where you play, but judging on the insane builds you fellas throw together, I'm guessing not. Since I'm playing Human, I just need to keep my two lowest classes 2 apart at most from eachother, which should be easy: Rogue 3, then Wiz 5, and then straight up AT, with a level in for Rogue to get Uncanny Dodge.
House rules on sneak attacks: My DM thinks Sneak Attacks are broken and rife for abuse. I agree, which is why I want to make a Trickster, but i want to do this in ways he hasn't seen before.
-Flanking doesnt give a sneak attack bonus, which sucks, because how else can rogues keep up with Captain Fireball Every Round, aka the party Sorc. However, if the target doesnt know where I am or is helpless, than I get the sneak attack, so I'm going to be preparing a lot of invisibility spells.
Dead Broke: We only get 2k gp to start out with, no magic items, but can have potions, including Cats Grace type buffs, and Cure Light Wounds. However, if there is a magic item that would be a great boon, feel free to mention it, i can probably find a way to get it eventually.
Rules Questions:
Do spells allow sneak attacks? This would be obscenely fun, but I did not see anything in the core books, besides spells counting as attacks for some purposes, and sneak attack applying to attacks. If I can use sneak attack on my spells, an official WoTC link, or short, simple persuasive argument based on the rules for myDM would work.
Spell list: This is what I think the build will come down to: what spells will allow maximum use of sneak attack, or create situations to help. I know Blind/Deafeen, Hold Person, and Invisibilty will be my bread and butter, but what else can I do? What things might I, and more importantly, my DM not think of? Stick to WoTC books, please.
Requirements for PrC:
Skills
Decipher Script 7 ranks, Disable Device 7 ranks, Escape Artist 7 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks.
Spells
Ability to cast mage hand and at least one arcane spell of 3rd level or higher.
Special
Sneak attack +2d6.
My build so far: We use 25 point buy, starting off at level 7, for those 7 levels you don't have to put skill points in as thought you were leveling up, just put into skills as you feel
Current Party Level: 7
CN
Human
Rogue 3/ Wizard 4- Progression- 1 more Wiz, full blown AT
Str: 10
Dex 15 + 1
Con: 12
Int: 16
Wis 9
Cha: 8
Skill Points: 105 (I think thats a good thing)
Rogue: 44+ 22
Wizard : 20+ 15
Human 4+6
Skills:
Tumble
Hide
Move Silently
Concentration
Slight of Hand
Feats:
Improved Initiative
Combat Reflexes
Combat Casting
Weapon Finesse
Metamagic feat at Wizard 5
Silent Spell (So I can recast invisiblity without drawing attention, amongst other things)
Feat at level 8:
Arcane Strike (Complete Warrior)
Tactics:
-Use high Dex for Shortbow sneak attacks, AoO finesse for melee attacks with rapier, and the occasional ranged touch attack
-Use every dirty spell and tactic to get sneak attacks and coup de graces
-Make the Rogue/Shadowdancer happy with all my spells to help her out as well
-Give DM an aneurysm
Spells that I will prepare every Day: These make the build, imo. We have a sorc for raw damage, I just want to get in as many sneak attacks per day as I can- A list of what spells to prepare each day for this purpose would be greatly appreciated.
Blindness/Deafness- Goodnight casters and rogues
Hold Person- Coup de grace is fun to say
Cats Grace- bonus to defense, rays, and attack
True Strike- I like hitting
Invisibilty- Great fun potential, especially Greater Invis
Image Spells- Throw off targets, sneak around, sneak attack? Or should i go for another incapacitating spell?
Knock: Every rogue dreams of having this spell
Ghoul Touch- Lasts a while, get the coup de grace, and throw off nearby foes
So what do you think so far? This is my first non-single class character, and my first one ive tried to optimize. I turn to you, be harsh, kind, whatever. Thanks for sticking around and have fun.
E: and if you have ideas for an utterly insane 20 different class monstrosity, or something similarly convoluted and pretty, post it here, I could use some inspiration. Even if I cant play it, I'd love to see how far someone can take this idea
- Don't lose caster levels: Keep rogue to a minimum. One level should be fine (probably the first, so you can get many skill points).
- Arcane Trickster is underpowered: It loses 2 or 3 caster levels for +2 skills per level and some sneak attack. Wizards hardly need those two. I say "wizards" because it requires a huge investment of a caster class to enter the prestige.
- PrCs count for multiclassing penalties: This is unfortunately wrong, but if you can't do nothing about it, i'd say to change your build. This is kinda stupid, too, because for example, a dwarf paladin 7/dwarven defender 1 faces multiclassing penalties. An elven ranger 5/horizon walker 1 faces the same problem, too.
- Don't lose a caster level to gain uncanny dodge: Because not only you will lose the caster level of course (which is a good reason by itself), you will also have a low rogue level for the uncanny dodge. Meaning that level 5+ rogues will be able to sneak attack you just fine.
- Sneak Attacks are not broken: They only work on creatures not immune to sneak attacks (elementals, undead, oozes, plants, constructs, etc are out), if your target doesn't have concealment against you, if you wield your weapon optimally, etc. Also fortification armor is quite common and blocks sneak attack. I'm not saying that you should change the mind on your DM about his ruling, but at least give him the facts. For example, a single 2nd level spell (blur) gives you immunity to sneak attacks, unless your opponent can pierce through the magical concealment. That means that a rogue with 20 class levels deals absolutely zero sneak attack damage against a blurred 3rd level wizard.
- Items: Masterwork tools for disabling traps. Healing belt is 750gp from magic item compendium which is like a potion of cure serious each day. Eternal wands from the same book with a swift invisibility (bards get it as a 1st level spell) will help you become invisible and sneak attack targets in the same round.
- Spells allow sneak attacks: See weapon-like spells in complete arcane or rules compendium.
- Useful spells: Glitterdust, swift invisibility, etc. Get some low level rays to sneak attack with if you need it. Fireballs and other area spells are not needed, you can't sneak attack with those.
- More con: I'd say at least 14. You don't need that much dexterity, because if you sneak attack with rays, you will be making touch attacks. Fairly easy to make them with low attack bonus.
- Don't go for hide/move silently: You have invisibility spells. What do you want those two for? If you have a problem with making sounds, cast a fly spell on you, or something similar.
- Feats: Combat casting is a trap. Go for skill focus (concentration), which is better. Improved initiative is fine. Combat reflexes is bad for spellcasters. You are supposed to be a ranged character, not a melee one (especially since you can't flank for sneak attack). Weapon finesse is trash for the same reason. You are ranged, not melee. I wouldn't get arcane strike, you won't have many spells available for spamming IMO.
So i hope that helps. Additional build advice: Traditional core-only arcane trickster: Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Assassin 1/Arcane Trickster 10/xxx 3. See how nicely assassin gets you the +1d6 sneak attack die to qualify for arcane trickster, only losing 2 caster levels to enter the prestige class in the process. I see how you favor sneak attack more than spells. You could build a rogue that gets the ability to UMD wands or uses eternal wands to deliver sneak attacks. That build would be something like rogue 1/bard 1/rogue 18. Grab some eternal wands or swift invisibility and use a ranged weapon. Each round should be swift action-invisibility, full attack with sneak attack.
Try: Human Rogue 1/(specialist?)Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5
Feats:
1. Able Learner (makes sure the rogue skills always cost 1 skill point)
H. Free
3. Practiced Spellcaster - Wizard
6-18: Free
Yes you take XP penalties, i don't think it's in any way avoidable considering your DM's rules, but you are actually a good, fun character that can sneak attack with the best of them but can actually DO something when sneak attacking isn't optimal.
On a final note, blasting sorcerers are funny from an optimization standpoint since it has been proven time and time again that battlefield control is much better than blasting and for pure damage output, Haste >>> Fireball.
House Rules:
Multiclass Rules: PrCs count for multiclass penalties.
House rules on sneak attacks: My DM thinks Sneak Attacks are broken and rife for abuse.
I agree
...
-Flanking doesnt give a sneak attack bonus, which sucks, because how else can rogues keep up with Captain Fireball Every Round
Ok ok ok, thats enough.
Rogues are underpowered, SA is a joke, and Captain I Think Evocation Is Totally Rad So I Wont Be Using Polymorph Any Time Soon isn't even close to the level of power he could be at. Don't nerf yourself because you think a subpar source of d6 damage is too much. At 20th level, a rogue does 10d6 SA with 15 BAB, averaging an extra 35 damage per sneak. Thats a laugh and a half compared to the damage a Cleric, Wizard, Druid or Sorc would be doing in Core.
The above build works really well, and is considered the standard rogue gish, but if that insane rule about Multiclassing PRCs (which makes no sense at all) is still in place, go Beguiler 20 and be done with it.
Rules Questions:
Do spells allow sneak attacks? This would be obscenely fun, but I did not see anything in the core books, besides spells counting as attacks for some purposes, and sneak attack applying to attacks. If I can use sneak attack on my spells, an official WoTC link, or short, simple persuasive argument based on the rules for myDM would work.
(emphasis mine)
You answered your own question there buddy. If you make an attack roll, you add sneak attack.
Unseen Seer and Spellwarped Sniper are both fun as well (Complete mage/scoundrel respectively). At least with spellwarped, you'd be able to make a little better use of some of your evocation spells.
Other sneak attack/wizard prestige classes:
- Daggerspell Mage
- Magelord
- Scar Enforcer
- Fatemaker
- Temple Raider of Olidamarra
That dual wand wielding sneak attacker looks fun as well, i think I'll roll one up on the side for when my Bard croaks, if i can acquire the magic item compendium and if i can't lead my DM to sanity. I've been thinking of that concept since reading the wand feats in Complete Arcane.
My friends seem to have warped their rules in a process of passing down and changing house rules from DM to DM not unlike inbreeding. I think that the weapon like spell part of Complete Arcane might be a boon for proving that attacks can be sneak attacks... how the
can't they see it already? If there is a specific quote from WoTC i can brandish to show PrC's don't get penalties, I'd love to use it. The justification is that PrC's follow the normal level up rules, ergo they are subject to the multiclass penalty. However in the DM's guide, the rules in refer to the standard set of level up criteria, multi class penalties are separate rules, though under the same heading. I bet if they weren't next together under the multiclass rules, it wouldn't be a problem.
Since another player is going for a Shadowdancer, from rogue, and the DM has a Monk who's going for a grappling PrC, I probably will be able to bring up the rules on multi classing, and when the rogue is stuck using a 1d4 small bow while the sorc is being a flaming
, the sneak attack rules could be brought up for a change. I think I might be fated to be a rules lawyer...
If there is a specific quote from WoTC i can brandish to show PrC's don't get penalties, I'd love to use it.
Of course there is, here, right from the SRD:
Taking a prestige class does not incur the experience point penalties normally associated with multiclassing
Taking a prestige class does not incur the experience point penalties normally associated with multiclassing.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/prestigeClasses.htm
Damn. Ninjad
Of course there is, here, right from the SRD:
Lovely, ive recently introduced this d20srd to my friends, and will probably whip this out on my iPhone or something to prove the point.
Has anyone ever told you that you people are really helpful?
Here's a random idea
Generic Spellcaster 6 / Arcane Trickster X
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster
Take Sneak Attack as one of your Spellcaster bonus feats to qualify
No caster level loss
Spontaneous Caster
Key attribute can be int or cha
Cherry pick skills
Spellcaster chooses spells from Druid, Cleric and Wiz/Sorc lists
If you can't get Complete Mage / Unseen Seer
Here's a random idea
Generic Spellcaster 6 / Arcane Trickster X
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster
Take Sneak Attack as one of your Spellcaster bonus feats to qualify
No caster level loss
Spontaneous Caster
Key attribute can be int or cha
Cherry pick skills
Spellcaster chooses spells from Druid, Cleric and Wiz/Sorc lists
Brilliant idea for a full power caster, but i doubt it will fly with my DM
Here's my current build.
Stats: 25 pt buy
Str: 10 Dex 13 Con: 14 Int: 16(+1) Wis: 10 Cha: 8
Rogue 1/ Wizard 5/ Assassin 1 (Progression- Arcane Trickster 10, xxx3)
6/3+1+3+3+3/5 (24 + 14= 38 hp)
Skill pts: 44+ 15+7+ 10= 76 pts
Skills: Disguise 4 ranks, Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks, Decipher Script 7 ranks, Disable Device 7 ranks, Escape Artist 7 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks, Concentration 10 ranks, Spell craft 10 ranks, Sleight of Hand 5 ranks, Tumble 5 ranks,
Feats: Improved Inititve, Skill Focus (Concentration), Precise Shot, Silent Spell
Bonus Metamagic Feat- Deceptive Spell- Cityscape- Makes spells appear to have different point of origin. Doesn’t get around cover or change mechanics, just makes it look like it came from somewhere else.
Special Abilities: Scribe Scroll, Summon Familiar, Sneak attack +2d6,
Familiar: [undecided]
Precise Shot seems useful so I can fire rays into melee, Silent Spell and Deceptive Spell are because I want to cast spells and stay hidden, and get the sneak attacks. Considering swapping something for Practiced Spellcaster, or taking it at level 8.
Tumble is there because I figure I'll be moving around enough to put it to use, and its great for retreating and then firing off a spell, or chugging a potion
If you can't get Complete Mage / Unseen Seer
Here's a random idea
Generic Spellcaster 6 / Arcane Trickster X
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster
Take Sneak Attack as one of your Spellcaster bonus feats to qualify
No caster level loss
Spontaneous Caster
Key attribute can be int or cha
Cherry pick skills
Spellcaster chooses spells from Druid, Cleric and Wiz/Sorc lists
The problem with this is generic classes are only supposed to be used in a game with just generic classes. This would require the DM redoing the entire game, so he probably wouldn't.
Yes, it's alternate rules, but it's also plain and simple.
A rogue/wiz/unseen seer/arcane trickster would have something like 8d6 SA and some additional unseen seer class features. More complex to build.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35
The bit about "Taking a prestige class does not incur the experience point penalties normally associated with multiclassing." appears at the end of the first paragraph in the "Prestige Classes" document.
If you can't end up getting normal PrC rules, I'd suggest looking at some prestige classes that only need one base class, so that your human "Favored Class: Any" applies to your base class or PrC, whichever is higher at the time. You wouldn't be able to have the same flavor as an Arcane Trickster, but uh... experience point penalties suck
edit: in case it helps, it says in the official D&D 3.5 FAQ that the omission of that text from the 3.5 DMG is an error, not a mechanics change.
edit: in case it helps, it says in the official D&D 3.5 FAQ that the omission of that text from the 3.5 DMG is an error, not a mechanics change.
Hmm that might be my best shot, along with the official WoTC SRD. Thanks, this ought to
It would seem the feat was written with the intent to offset caster level loss when multi-classing outside of a casting class for a few levels, and not to offset specific penalties imposed to counterbalance specific rewards in a class to allow all gain for no loss (at the mere cost of one feat, which for a human is relatively nothing).
Conversely, if a caster practices casting, shouldn't they be able to make up the reduction of their class power's specific penalty equally as well as someone who didn't even train as a caster for four levels?
A paradox of concept this use is.
Isn't the Practiced Spellcaster feat being abused in the Unseen Seer build?
We don't care. It works, per the rules. Of course, individual DMs can choose to not allow it, but that's a house rule. I wouldn't care if someone did this in a game I was DMing. I know alot of control freak DMs that probably would, though. But then again, those DMs tend to ban first and ask questions later in general, and always favor whatever interpretation of the rules that hinders the PCs the most...
Try: Human Rogue 1/(specialist?)Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5
Feats:
1. Able Learner (makes sure the rogue skills always cost 1 skill point)
H. Free
3. Practiced Spellcaster - Wizard
6-18: Free
Talked with my DM, brandished the FAQ and now PrC's are free as the wind. Hooray. Thanks much for your help, I'm learning a bit about how to make a better character, even though I have not had a chance to play this concept quite yet.
The Assassin build is a no go, as its a "No Evil" campaign, so this build seems to be the best bang for my buck. I like it, it goes with what how I wanted to play, nobody in the group uses divination, and the utterly brilliant use of Practiced Spell casting makes me smile. It's mechanically sound so that should fly.
What book is Able Learner from? It seems damn handy.
Stats: 25 pt buy
Str 9, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
Feats: Able Learner, Precise Shot, Practiced Spellcaster, Point Blank Shot, Improved Feint or Initiative, Deceptive Spell,
Divine Dips- Vital Strike- 3rd lvl spell, Complete Mage, next hit is a Sneak
???
Strategy- Sneak, Invis, and use a healthy BAB and Dex bonus to land lots of rays, Stay out of melee, and use bluff/hide and a shortbow/light crossbow/hand crossbow to get sneak attacks from the distance if the magic runs dry
I think I'll play him as the DnD version of my name sake, who uses his magic to divine killers and then uses magic to not leave traces, so to speak. Consensus is that Dexter is LN bordering on Evil based on a few episodes before last weeks game.
Edit: I'm sure you can probably find it at crystalkeep.com, also.
Stats: 25 pt buy
Str 9, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
I don't like that point buy, specialize in the stats that matter the most!
STR: 8
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 17
WIS: 8
CHA: 8
Also the feats could probably use some optimization.
Talked with my DM, brandished the FAQ and now PrC's are free as the wind. Hooray. Thanks much for your help, I'm learning a bit about how to make a better character, even though I have not had a chance to play this concept quite yet.
The Assassin build is a no go, as its a "No Evil" campaign, so this build seems to be the best bang for my buck. I like it, it goes with what how I wanted to play, nobody in the group uses divination, and the utterly brilliant use of Practiced Spell casting makes me smile. It's mechanically sound so that should fly.
What book is Able Learner from? It seems damn handy.
Stats: 25 pt buy
Str 9, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
Feats: Able Learner, Precise Shot, Practiced Spellcaster, Point Blank Shot, Improved Feint or Initiative, Deceptive Spell,
Divine Dips- Vital Strike- 3rd lvl spell, Complete Mage, next hit is a Sneak
???
Strategy- Sneak, Invis, and use a healthy BAB and Dex bonus to land lots of rays, Stay out of melee, and use bluff/hide and a shortbow/light crossbow/hand crossbow to get sneak attacks from the distance if the magic runs dry
I think I'll play him as the DnD version of my name sake, who uses his magic to divine killers and then uses magic to not leave traces, so to speak. Consensus is that Dexter is LN bordering on Evil based on a few episodes before last weeks game.
Think about Focused Specialist Conjourer for your wizard base. This gives you lots of fun orby spells to play with (Complete Arcane/Spell Compendium) along with some fun disable/control spells. Probably ban Enchantment, Necromancy, and Abjuration, leaving Conjouration, Illusion, Evocation, and Divination for optimal access to blasty/buffy spells needed for playing the caster/rogue hybred. This also gives you the option of sacrificing your familiar to gain the Abrupt Jaunt feature from PHBII, which is a handy "get outa jail free" card for your frail little friend. Alternatively, the Hummingbird familair from some Dragon mag or another gives a +4 Initiative bonus, great for a class that loves to go first (SA is easiest to qualify for in the opening round and a half of combat).
Something fun might be to consider the Staggering Strike feat from Complete Adventurer. Since the spell damage is part of the total damage inflicted by the sneak attack, your DCs for SS should be pretty high, high enough that most creatures can't make the fort save. This means that everything you hit is effectively slowed as long as you can keep hitting it every round for SA, which is easy once you achieve 4th level spells and gain access to Greater Invis.
A great alternative to an xbow when you run low on juice is a Wand of Acid Splash. For 350g, you get 50 charges of SA goodness. Damage is slightly less than the xbow (d3 vs d8) but its a touch attack, which means you'll tend to hit more often, and that's a good thing. This works out to be about 7 gold a shot, but you shouldn't need more than 1-2 in a given campaign even if it runs a while, since you'll only use it when you run out of other spells (and that includes all your cantrips, which can be Acid Splashes as well). Alternatively, spending a feat on the Acid Splatter reserve feat from Complete Mage (you need that book for Unseen Seer) will give you unlimited acid based sneak attacks provided you keep an acid based spell behind. Acid Arrow, while a terrible spell, is both a conjouration spell (lots of these slots from Focused Specialist) and an acid spell, thus allowing you to toss away a spell slot for unlimited touch attacks. At higher levels, you could use Acid Fog or similar spells for more base damage, but generally a low level spell should suffice. When in doubt, Rope Trick and rechage!
Point Blank/Precise Shot seem good, but tend to not be in practice. If you win initiative to get SA in the opening round, your allies probably won't be in melee with the foe yet, and once they do, you won't qualify for SA unless you become invisible/hide. Thus most attacks you make will be flat footed touch attacks, which will be against AC 10 unless the foe has some form of protection outside of conventional defenses. By the time they get those, you'll be able to hit higher numbers reliably as well.
Improved Feint is also a bad idea. Read up on feinting, it requires being in melee, generally bad news bears for your fragile friend.
Consider Darkstalker, a feat from Lords of Madnes I believe. This'll give you superior hiding capabilities that'll help you defeat things like Tremorsense and Blindsense. That'll keep your hide hidden when the big nasties come to call.
Deceptive Spell, however fun sounding, probably isn't worth it. Since you are invisible, and most attack spells are standard actions, you could just shoot and move silenty, this throwing wouldbe attackers off your true location. You might get targeted with some area spells, but if your DM doesn't cheat, you should be able to avoid most things. In fact, very little metamagic would actually be very helpful to you, except maybe Split Ray, and of course Persistant Spell (for Hunter's Eye abuse). I don't think Split Rayed spells count as a Volley style attack (see Scorching Ray and the rules in Complete Arcane) thus you'd double up your ray damage AND your SA, which is well worth the 2 level bump, especially if you use it on low level rays like Ray of Frost or Ray of Flame/Ice.
Best of luck to you, hope this helps!
Good idea with the wand of acid splash too; its a low magic campaign, but its dirt cheap and a level 0 spell so it should probably fly
Where is Hunter's Eye from? I hear its handy, but I cant find it yet.
Able Learner - Races of Destiny. Human or similar (Illumian) race.
I do have a personal optimized build at hand, so some quick stuff off my Excel sheet:
Spellthief > Rogue because of the starting class skills and you can obtain Master Spellthief feat, however you might want Rogue for the "face" skills (Diplomacy etc).
Skillpoint Distribution: As a mainly spellcasting role, max out Concentration, Spellcraft, Knowledge(Arcane); as a secondary trapfinder/utility role, max out Disable Device, Search, Spot, Listen and Use Magic Device. Distribute the rest minimally to achieving your preprequistes of Unseen Seer and Arcane Trickster.
List of feats I think are good: Extend+Persistent Spell, Residual Magic, Quicken Spell, Practiced Spellcaster, Improved Initative, Empower Spell, Reserve Feat (Acidic Splatter), Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, TWF+Double Wand Wielder (if going for that build)
Attribute Increase: +1 Int every 4 levels.
I agree Focused Conjurer might be really good for this build; nerf Enchantment, Abjuration and (maybe Illusion?) You can reaccess Illusion/Ajburation through Wands/UMD.
Hunter's Eye - PHBII.
Able Learner - Races of Destiny. Human or similar (Illumian) race.
.
Thanks for the ideas. I think PHBII is cool but hideously underused.
I'm going with rogue so I can have a few "Face" skills, such as bluff, which will also help for hiding, and mainly because this character will take the place of the previous face, my bard. Who despite my best efforts, and the DM's, is still alive. And since most of the team is antisocial and has a Cha panalty, friendly skills will get some milage.
Quicken Spell sounds great, getting in a swift action sneak attack with a level 0 spell is
brilliant, and has been part of the reason I wanted to go down this line. Also, the extend/persistant spell combo might work well, as I intend to use buffs and such. I think I'm going with the Conjurer specialist, for large amounts of touch attack goodness, and banning Necromancy and Abjuration. Enchantment has a few fun paralizing spells like Hold Person, which get me a coup de grace with the dagger i plan on carrying for that purpose. Charm person is also fun, and I like having Mage Armor, just in case.
E: so I just found my new PHBII and looked up Hunter's Eye. The word filters and such would not allow me to express my excitement for that spell. I think it would violate every sensibility to fully explain how much I like it. Bonus sneak attack die makes me
. Along with Vital Strike, which is a free sneak attack, for a 3rd level divination spell swiped from the Assassin list in Complete mage, and I'm starting to see that the sneak attacking mage idea is actually really fun. You guys really have some great ideas, I really can't wait till my bard croaks.Also, go with Focused Specialist Conjourer from Complete Mage. You give up an extra school (Enchantment, everything there is DC based) and gain a whole extra set of spell slots per level to devote to Conjouration spells. Since you are a niche caster, might as well embrace your specialization. Do what you do best, more often. At that degree, you have about as many spells per day as a sorcerer, with more freedom to choose them. Its great.
So am I to understand that DnD is like economics; specialization is best?
That does fit the idea quite well. 3 extra conjuration orbs per day per level is fine by me. My attack bonus is going to be better than my DC's even with practiced spell caster boosting them. I always did figure the best status effect to inflict was death, and conjuration has a few other nice things to throw out, along with the straight damage.
The only thing Practiced Spellcaster affects is CL, which affects things like duration, damage dice, range, # of effects or targets, difficulty to dispel, and the ability to overcome SR. It doesn't affect DC, only the spell level, caster stat, and relevent special feats/abilities affect DCs. Since you won't be taking feats like Spell Focus and maximizing INT isn't your top priority, I'd avoid spells that have DCs that do nothing on a successful save. Stick with weaponlike spells, most of them either don't have saves, or have primary effects that allow saves, but still have 2ndary effects that don't, like the 4th level orb line of spells.
So am I to understand that DnD is like economics; specialization is best?
Maybe. While specializing is strong, the most powerful archtype of character is the Batman style wizard (championed by a fellow named the Logic Ninja over on the OotS forums). Batman tends to be a generalist wizard, with a little something for just about every concievable situation. Only a few characters can pull this off, most of them being the T1 casters.
Typically speaking, for non-casters, specialization in 1-2 tricks is common and valid, and in fact, its usually the most effective. Being a fighter who can switch back and forth between 1hand, 2hand, and duel wield is horribly inefficient, because you just don't have enough feats and money to do everything. So you stick to one thing, focus on it, invest feats, money, and class levels, and do well (enough).
Casters enjoy the luxury of spells, which can often be changed on a daily or more frequent basis, and thus can afford to generalize more. Even said, there are a lot of niche casters such as the gish (fighter-mage) and arcane rogue that derive more strength from specializing. Sure, both could toss a Fireball, but neither would benefit from it as much as a differnt spell, nor would they be as profficent with the fireball as a dedicated caster. Thus, they tend to stick to spells that fall more in line with their niche and specialize, so picking up a wizard specialty is common among them.
Make sense?
A Rogue1/Conjurer4/US3/Incant10/Divine Oracle1/Conjurer1 seems like a good start.
Ban Evocation, Enchantment for Specialist, and Necromancy for Incant.
At third level Incantatrix you can now persist Hunter's Eye for free. A little late, compared to pure Incantatrix, but it works. It works even better if you have an Icantatar in the party who will do it for you.