Arcane Trickster w/ mod levels - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Arcane Trickster w/ mod levels

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
cathat89
Sep 23, 2008 13:19:05 Currently running a Rogue 1/ Wizard 4/ Unseen Seer 4 and looking to level into Arcane Trickster. Before doing so, I'm thinking about taking a couple of levels in other classes to add flavor and power. Considering Wild Mage 1 (currently have Practiced Spellcaster) or Wizard 5, and perhaps carrying Wizard out to 8 (playing with Pathfinder mods that allow Hand of the Apprentice and Metamagic ability). Considering the cost/benefit of

a) burning a feat for Wild Mage
b) losing 2d6 in sneak attack (recoverable with Hunter's Eye) to gain metamagic ability in Pathfinder

Feats:
Able Learner
Greyhawk School
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Energy Substitution: Sonic
Empower Spell
Practiced Spellcaster (Silent Spell retrained)

What do you think?
#2
Terevok
Sep 23, 2008 13:38:32
Currently running a Rogue 1/ Wizard 4/ Unseen Seer 4 and looking to level into Arcane Trickster. Before doing so, I'm thinking about taking a couple of levels in other classes to add flavor and power. Considering Wild Mage 1 (currently have Practiced Spellcaster) or Wizard 5, and perhaps carrying Wizard out to 8 (playing with Pathfinder mods that allow Hand of the Apprentice and Metamagic ability). Considering the cost/benefit of

a) burning a feat for Wild Mage
b) losing 2d6 in sneak attack (recoverable with Hunter's Eye) to gain metamagic ability in Pathfinder

Feats:
Able Learner
Greyhawk School
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Energy Substitution: Sonic
Empower Spell
Practiced Spellcaster (Silent Spell retrained)

What do you think?

Honestly, Arcane Trickster is a fairly good prestige class on its own. If your interested in optimizing SA dice, why not just go AT 10? That leaves you with only 1 level to spare. Archmage and arcane reach come to mind after you finish AT.
#3
cathat89
Sep 23, 2008 13:53:44 Thought about Archmage, but didn't want to burn the feats for it. This character plays with the Universal school a lot, so I wanted to grab some all-purpose feats to use. I agree, AT is great on its own, but the option to a) boost your level, or b) get an extra feat AND the option to use metamagics without changing spell levels a couple of times a day is tempting.
#4
Terevok
Sep 23, 2008 14:00:46
Thought about Archmage, but didn't want to burn the feats for it. This character plays with the Universal school a lot, so I wanted to grab some all-purpose feats to use. I agree, AT is great on its own, but the option to a) boost your level, or b) get an extra feat AND the option to use metamagics without changing spell levels a couple of times a day is tempting.

Well then I guess the next step is to determine how many levels of AT you want. A few levels leaves a lot of room for customization. More then about 5 or 6 kinda trims down your options.
#5
cathat89
Sep 23, 2008 14:09:23 I'm looking to sub in 1-4 levels (4 max). Is it worth losing the 2d6 to get the metamagic power? Or perhaps 1d6 to get the potential level bump and a feat?
#6
Terevok
Sep 23, 2008 14:12:38 Ah, ok, with those parameters Wild Mage seems a good option, also have you considered possibly a one level dip into Shadow Adept or Mindbender?
#7
cathat89
Sep 23, 2008 14:31:46 Hadn't considered either--I don't know the benefits.
#8
Terevok
Sep 23, 2008 14:39:54 Mindbender (CA) gives telepathy for relatively little cost. Shadow Adept (PGtF) gives a host of feats at first level, with again, relatively little cost.
#9
cathat89
Sep 23, 2008 14:47:51 I don't know that I'll be given access to FR classes. Otherwise, looks great. I appreciate your help!
#10
Terevok
Sep 23, 2008 14:52:26 No problem. Shadow Adept is particularly useful mainly because of flavor (oooo shadow) and the benefits that it gives to the spells you are (more than likely) using a lot.
#11
cathat89
Sep 23, 2008 15:07:28 Can't do Shadow Adept--character is Chaotic Good.
#12
Terevok
Sep 23, 2008 15:17:51 Ah, well there goes that hehe. What about mindbender? I am sure a sneaky (albeit kind hearted) character can find a use for almost free telepathy?
#13
cathat89
Sep 23, 2008 15:20:29 So long as it doesn't give up a spell level, it's solid. Plenty of value there.
#14
rebel7284
Sep 23, 2008 15:31:05 Divine Oracle 2
+2 CL in divination spells and evasion.
#15
hogarth
Sep 23, 2008 15:47:03 Mindbender also requires non-good alignment.

I'd go with 8 levels of wizard for the spontaneous metamagic and the extra 3rd level spell.
#16
cathat89
Sep 23, 2008 15:47:04 Thought about that. The chance to get Evasion back is great, but why not hold out to forge a ring? Or better yet, make the ring your Arcane Bond item and make your own?
#17
rebel7284
Sep 23, 2008 16:00:04 Because of +2 CL in divination is nice... also you save 10K gold, a bunch of XP, and a ring slot...
#18
cathat89
Sep 23, 2008 16:08:48 Point. i like the idea. Just a question of what is best for a Universal wizard with big sneak attack.
#19
rebel7284
Sep 23, 2008 16:53:29 To be fair, you also do waste a feat. I dunno. I like the idea of maxing the caster level on Hunter's Eye.
#20
cathat89
Sep 24, 2008 9:39:58 I appreciate the feedback so far, folks. I think the route I'm going is as follows:

Rogue 1/ Wizard 5/ Unseen Seer 4/ Wild Mage 1/Arcane Trickster X

Here's my logic:

By choosing Wild Mage and Wizard for 1 more level each, I lose BaB, but with almost all attacks being touch attacks, it's not as critical. Plus, with the bump in BaB from Unseen Seer, I'm about where any Wizard would be. I get a caster bump occasionally with Wild Mage, and make up for the lost Feat with the extra level of Wizard. With the additional Feats from the Pathfinder system, I should be able to Persist Hunter's Eye around 15th level (or perhaps sooner, with Arcane Thesis: Hunter's Eye). This still leaves me room to pick up Split Ray, Chain Spell, and Twin Spell/Repeat Spell. I've ruled out Archmage simply because of the Feat burn for the class (although Retraining feats like Energy Substitution helps counter that), and the fact that I can duplicate some of those abilities with Feats--although it's not preferable.

Final questions for anyone:

1) Which is preferable--Twin Spell or Repeat Spell?
2) What are some ways to maximize a Wizard (all schools) by playing the schools off each other?
3) What would you do differently in this build?

Thanks, gang!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cathat89 Sep 23, 2008 13:19:05	Currently running a Rogue 1/ Wizard 4/ Unseen Seer 4 and looking to level into Arcane Trickster. Before doing so, I'm thinking about taking a couple of levels in other classes to add flavor and power. Considering Wild Mage 1 (currently have Practiced Spellcaster) or Wizard 5, and perhaps carrying Wizard out to 8 (playing with Pathfinder mods that allow Hand of the Apprentice and Metamagic ability). Considering the cost/benefit of a) burning a feat for Wild Mage b) losing 2d6 in sneak attack (recoverable with Hunter's Eye) to gain metamagic ability in Pathfinder Feats: Able Learner Greyhawk School Point Blank Shot Precise Shot Energy Substitution: Sonic Empower Spell Practiced Spellcaster (Silent Spell retrained) What do you think?
#2 Terevok Sep 23, 2008 13:38:32	Currently running a Rogue 1/ Wizard 4/ Unseen Seer 4 and looking to level into Arcane Trickster. Before doing so, I'm thinking about taking a couple of levels in other classes to add flavor and power. Considering Wild Mage 1 (currently have Practiced Spellcaster) or Wizard 5, and perhaps carrying Wizard out to 8 (playing with Pathfinder mods that allow Hand of the Apprentice and Metamagic ability). Considering the cost/benefit of a) burning a feat for Wild Mage b) losing 2d6 in sneak attack (recoverable with Hunter's Eye) to gain metamagic ability in Pathfinder Feats: Able Learner Greyhawk School Point Blank Shot Precise Shot Energy Substitution: Sonic Empower Spell Practiced Spellcaster (Silent Spell retrained) What do you think? Honestly, Arcane Trickster is a fairly good prestige class on its own. If your interested in optimizing SA dice, why not just go AT 10? That leaves you with only 1 level to spare. Archmage and arcane reach come to mind after you finish AT.
#3 cathat89 Sep 23, 2008 13:53:44	Thought about Archmage, but didn't want to burn the feats for it. This character plays with the Universal school a lot, so I wanted to grab some all-purpose feats to use. I agree, AT is great on its own, but the option to a) boost your level, or b) get an extra feat AND the option to use metamagics without changing spell levels a couple of times a day is tempting.
#4 Terevok Sep 23, 2008 14:00:46	Thought about Archmage, but didn't want to burn the feats for it. This character plays with the Universal school a lot, so I wanted to grab some all-purpose feats to use. I agree, AT is great on its own, but the option to a) boost your level, or b) get an extra feat AND the option to use metamagics without changing spell levels a couple of times a day is tempting. Well then I guess the next step is to determine how many levels of AT you want. A few levels leaves a lot of room for customization. More then about 5 or 6 kinda trims down your options.
#5 cathat89 Sep 23, 2008 14:09:23	I'm looking to sub in 1-4 levels (4 max). Is it worth losing the 2d6 to get the metamagic power? Or perhaps 1d6 to get the potential level bump and a feat?
#6 Terevok Sep 23, 2008 14:12:38	Ah, ok, with those parameters Wild Mage seems a good option, also have you considered possibly a one level dip into Shadow Adept or Mindbender?
#7 cathat89 Sep 23, 2008 14:31:46	Hadn't considered either--I don't know the benefits.
#8 Terevok Sep 23, 2008 14:39:54	Mindbender (CA) gives telepathy for relatively little cost. Shadow Adept (PGtF) gives a host of feats at first level, with again, relatively little cost.
#9 cathat89 Sep 23, 2008 14:47:51	I don't know that I'll be given access to FR classes. Otherwise, looks great. I appreciate your help!
#10 Terevok Sep 23, 2008 14:52:26	No problem. Shadow Adept is particularly useful mainly because of flavor (oooo shadow) and the benefits that it gives to the spells you are (more than likely) using a lot.
#11 cathat89 Sep 23, 2008 15:07:28	Can't do Shadow Adept--character is Chaotic Good.
#12 Terevok Sep 23, 2008 15:17:51	Ah, well there goes that hehe. What about mindbender? I am sure a sneaky (albeit kind hearted) character can find a use for almost free telepathy?
#13 cathat89 Sep 23, 2008 15:20:29	So long as it doesn't give up a spell level, it's solid. Plenty of value there.
#14 rebel7284 Sep 23, 2008 15:31:05	Divine Oracle 2 +2 CL in divination spells and evasion.
#15 hogarth Sep 23, 2008 15:47:03	Mindbender also requires non-good alignment. I'd go with 8 levels of wizard for the spontaneous metamagic and the extra 3rd level spell.
#16 cathat89 Sep 23, 2008 15:47:04	Thought about that. The chance to get Evasion back is great, but why not hold out to forge a ring? Or better yet, make the ring your Arcane Bond item and make your own?
#17 rebel7284 Sep 23, 2008 16:00:04	Because of +2 CL in divination is nice... also you save 10K gold, a bunch of XP, and a ring slot...
#18 cathat89 Sep 23, 2008 16:08:48	Point. i like the idea. Just a question of what is best for a Universal wizard with big sneak attack.
#19 rebel7284 Sep 23, 2008 16:53:29	To be fair, you also do waste a feat. I dunno. I like the idea of maxing the caster level on Hunter's Eye.
#20 cathat89 Sep 24, 2008 9:39:58	I appreciate the feedback so far, folks. I think the route I'm going is as follows: Rogue 1/ Wizard 5/ Unseen Seer 4/ Wild Mage 1/Arcane Trickster X Here's my logic: By choosing Wild Mage and Wizard for 1 more level each, I lose BaB, but with almost all attacks being touch attacks, it's not as critical. Plus, with the bump in BaB from Unseen Seer, I'm about where any Wizard would be. I get a caster bump occasionally with Wild Mage, and make up for the lost Feat with the extra level of Wizard. With the additional Feats from the Pathfinder system, I should be able to Persist Hunter's Eye around 15th level (or perhaps sooner, with Arcane Thesis: Hunter's Eye). This still leaves me room to pick up Split Ray, Chain Spell, and Twin Spell/Repeat Spell. I've ruled out Archmage simply because of the Feat burn for the class (although Retraining feats like Energy Substitution helps counter that), and the fact that I can duplicate some of those abilities with Feats--although it's not preferable. Final questions for anyone: 1) Which is preferable--Twin Spell or Repeat Spell? 2) What are some ways to maximize a Wizard (all schools) by playing the schools off each other? 3) What would you do differently in this build? Thanks, gang!