Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Endarire Jul 31, 2009 0:43:03	I know full casters are by far tier 1 or 2. I know spells, if used correctly, are powerful, even battle-ending. Aside from domain spells, are cleric spells generally that weak compared to wizard spells to justify clerics getting their full list while wizards need to pay per spell? An @20 comparison is misleading- it's hard to be weak at 20 as a full caster. I'm more concerned about spells at the soonest opportunity to acquire them, discounting fast access means. For example, compare a level 3 generalist wizard and a level 3 cleric. Each has the same number of slots per day, excluding domain spells, and each has the same INT and WIS. Are glitterdust and mirror image so powerful that the wizard is set for this level while the entire cleric list, including as silence, spiritual weapon, and hold person? What about the druid versus the wizard? Entangle shuts down fights from level 1, but it requires vegetation. Spider climb allows a druid to climb out of reach, but doesn't work in open areas, and a wizard also gets this. (More likely, however, the wizard knows levitate which works in more situations.) From my experience, arcane spells often scale better than divine spells. Grease can shut down fights at double-digit levels and save allies from grapplers, but bless or sanctuary is rarely seen as so handy. As a wizard, specializing, even in core, is nearly a gimme because spell slots are just so potent. I can always use another grease or glitterdust or haste or dimension door. As a cleric, I can prepare another resist energy or lesser restoration or cat's grace or heal. These are handy, and when I need them I -need- them, but they're more reactive than proactive. There's also the matter of day-to-day versatility. Divine casters are spectacular in this regard. Wizards require lots of spells- meaning lots of time or/and money- to approach such versatility.
#2 pyro_azer Jul 31, 2009 0:47:05	I would say the spells themselves are roughly equal but with a different focus. Wizards best spells are the debuffers and battlefield control. Clerics best spells are the buffers. Druids could go without spellcasting and still be very, very, very good. Pick your poison.
#3 mister_crowley Jul 31, 2009 1:58:27	I would say the spells themselves are roughly equal but with a different focus. Wizards best spells are the debuffers and battlefield control. Clerics best spells are the buffers. Druids could go without spellcasting and still be very, very, very good. Pick your poison. +1
#4 mister_crowley Jul 31, 2009 1:59:03	For example, compare a level 3 generalist wizard and a level 3 cleric. Each has the same number of slots per day, excluding domain spells, and each has the same INT and WIS. Are glitterdust and mirror image so powerful that the wizard is set for this level while the entire cleric list, including as silence, spiritual weapon, and hold person? The short answer is yes.
#5 lurk3r Jul 31, 2009 14:50:41	Ok so I mentioned this to End yesterday... But the point that isn't brought up here is that its highly reliant on the number of splats being allowed. In my opinion, if you're going with no splat restrictions, it isn't justified. Because, then the cleric/druid will get the 4-5 best/broken ones off a HUGE list, wheras the Wizard is still limited to the 2-3 they can get at level-up/find scrolls for. On the flipside, in core only, yes, they do balance out. Adding books is what tilts the scales.
#6 deoxhydroxinate Jul 31, 2009 15:45:58	As has been pointed out before - Each has their own area of expertise and are extremely potent within that area. It basically comes down to, what do you want to do with your spells/abilities?