"Archer" isn't really a role, it's a method of attack. A cleric-archer fills the Divine Caster role. A mundane archer is generally a bit of a fifth wheel, since he doesn't engage the enemy; he could be the party skill-monkey if he's, say, a Swift Hunter build.
A level 7 cleric-archer can do just fine for himself.
What's the rest of your party playing? Psions are blasters with some control/save-or-fails, basically pseudo-arcanists; cleric-archers are clerics; dragonfire adepts are battlefield-controllers...
Basically, pick whatever you like, or whatever role your party needs.
Level 7 I belive. I was also thinking about a psion, though, I'm not sure what particular role psions or archers fill exactly.
Psions dont mix that well with archery, but there's always the soulbow if you want a more psionic-esque archer.
As for cleric archers:
Elf, domains: war/elf, elf/time, or something similar. divine power, zen archery (unless you got points enough to get a good dex score) and lots of other goodies.
However, with that said, DFAs are amazingly fun to play. Check out JanusJones' DFA handbook.
If you'd like to play an archer, you really can't go wrong with a DMM: Persist Cleric-Archer w/ Zen archery. You could also rock fairly hard with an DMM: Persist Archivist-Archer if you have the stats for it (this build could still pull Zen archery if you'd like, although less optimally). The third option is a swift-hunter, which can be excellent skill monkeys (so can cloistered clerics, btw) and still pump out good damage.
In summary: Lots o' options on your plate :D
If you'd like to play an archer, you really can't go wrong with a DMM: Persist Cleric-Archer w/ Zen archery.
Yes you can. DMM(Persist) is far more cheese than most DMs like.
Yes you can. DMM(Persist) is far more cheese than most DMs like.
I disagree. DMM Persist is very little cheese, simply because of the limited number of turn attempts. I should note here that I am against the stacking of nightsticks. Without them, DMM Persist is nowhere near the cheese-level of everyone's favorite - Incantrix. ;)
Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, DMM: Persistent
Cha 14
Eagle's Splendour
3 feats, 6 points in PB, 1 second level slot permanently sacrificed.
Nets you: 1 spell persistent.
Yeah. Cheesy... Really... Uh-huh...
:D :P :D
And it depends on the spell, too.
With those domains, 16Cha and Extra Turning taken once at level 6 you get 14 turn attempts. With a reasonable point buy to get 12 starting Cha you could easily get another 4 Cha from spells or items (borrow the Cha-casters +Cha item for casting) and then persist two spells.
It's not absolutely cheesy, but still pretty cheesy. Only with Nightsticks does it fully enter the elemental plane of cheese.
An Incantatrix with Arcane Disciple can do the same, for an arcane Gish build. You just don't get Zen Archery.
And yes the cleric can do anything we know that big deal.
Kikagezumi, what are you looking for in an archer?
Most archer characters I've seen have stay out of melee range and try to either hit one at a time for a lot of damage, or hit lots of foes in one round for good damage. AC isn't going to be so good on an archer (especially a scout combo becuase of the need for light armor, a fighter archer loses his shield) so menuerability becomes even more important. You'll want some way to keep shots open, precise shot can do this if your allies keep charging in the way. Bow enhancements are important, and choosing the right arrow enhancements can be too (why get a flame burst bow? just get flame burst/ frost burst/ acid burst arrows and use the most effective one at the time).
The real question is, what do you want to do with the character, and what do you not want to deal with?
As another stated before, OotBI is not worth it.
Your role as an archer most of the time is to scout ahead of your party, bring the survival-tracking-nature related skills and rain death on the enemies.
This is the standard cookie-cutter flavour obviously, straight out of the PHB Ranger page, but you can be any kind of archer you want. For exemple, the Warlock: it is an archer-like class (yes, it is :P) with none of the typical Legol...ahem... Ranger flavour in it. Be creative, fill the glass cannon role with style
.But anyway Society Minds are able to transfer effects of personal powers to anyone they are linked to. At 7th level that's 7 people. Healing also works that way. And anyone who uses personal spells or powers can send it through the link to anyone else. Basically makes healing more effective as you no longer have to touch them, and buffs that are normally personal can be transferred.
But that's only if your DM allows 3rd party books. If not, it's true Psions are blasters plain and simple. Though the power Astral Construct is probably the strongest power on the lists and should be gotten one way or another (Expanded Knowledge). Great for Tanking for you. Then you can later get the power to basically become it. You gain all the benefits and Nat armor bonus.
Guided Shot, Arrow Mind, Swift Haste, all persistent.
I recommend being mounted. Dont invest a lot into it,just a decent Ride score.
The characters in our group who ride into battle take the least damage, as they are taking (their mounts)moves and (their own)full attacks. As long as you dont double move the mount, or run it, there are no penalties to hit. I am riding a Phantom Steed at this point and started out at 6th level riding a dire bat.The higher the move the better,and expect to lose your mount often, but mounts are cheap mobility in my mind.
Remember that you dont count as flanker for your own targets, as you shouldnt be in range to Threaten them.
What are the best ways to generate the conditions necessary for SA?
well, there's also the archificer. Basically, they combine the cleric archer with the nice arcane archery buffs.
Guided Shot, Arrow Mind, Swift Haste, all persistent.
Eh, and just a couple of post above we where talking about things that a DM would ban at the speed of light... :D
if your game isnt going to get into high lev+els, i would suggest arcane archer - its not the most optimized but it can be quite powerful at mid levels and its very fun to play. your main spells should be mostly AoE debuffs and BC, no need to worry about range because you can use your arrows to send them. however, if you are planning to get into higher levels, you will probably become useless rather quickly.
An AA is not a mid-level archer. It's a high level archer, because the only ability you get early on that cannot be duplicated with GMW is the ability to shoot area effect spells by arrow.
So a good AA is basically a specialist (or focused specialist) wizard + some prestige class that uses Arcane Disciple (War) to regain BAB for an encounter. He takes two levels of AA when he reaches +7 real BAB and can afford the archery feats - which is LATE.
So if you want to play a low- to mid-level archer DON'T shoot for an AA. I'm quite certain you'll be disappointed if you do.
Even basic Rangers make better archers for the most part of the game.
I'll suggest the Chameleon, too, from RoD. You can eventually cast Divine Power and other divine buffs if you go the Divine Route, or use a number of nice Arcane buffs if you go the arcane route (Eyes of the Hunter, Wraithstrike for emergency melee, Greater Invis, Haste etc.) - both of which should be eventually combined with martial route for a bonus to hit and damage. With a higher pointbuy nothing stops you from even going a Theurge route and combining all good buffs - but without being able to persist them easily. Since you can pick spells from any arcane or divine lists, there is really a lot to choose from.
You also get a fat ability boost you can reassign every day (or later by refocusing for 10 minutes) that is a competence bonus and therefore rare enough to stack with most other ability bonuses you might get.
The floating feat at lvl 2 is another great ability that really enhances versatility.
I think Chameleons make surprisingly effective archers.
A very basic build that should work would be:
Human Ranger 2, Fighter 2, Scout or Rogue or Cleric or Warblade 1, Chameleon 10. Finish off any way you like. All you need in Prereqs is Able Learner and a few skill points.
An AA is not a mid-level archer. It's a high level archer, because the only ability you get early on that cannot be duplicated with GMW is the ability to shoot area effect spells by arrow.
...
He takes two levels of AA when he reaches +7 real BAB and can afford the archery feats - which is LATE.
im not sure what you consider "late" but since you can get this stuff by level 10 i would consider that pretty mid-level. the guy said he is starting at 7. "late" is 15+ imo.
Psions are pale imitations of wizards (but better at blasting). They fill a sorcerer role, more or less. Unfortunately, they're not great team players; all of their good buffs are personal.
Affinity Field? :P
Psions dont mix that well with archery, but there's always the soulbow if you want a more psionic-esque archer.
Psionic shot is decent feat, bleh.. Ranger 2 / Psion 4 / Slayer 10 / Whatever 4 could be worth playing, not very good but not horrid either.
But that's only if your DM allows 3rd party books. If not, it's true Psions are blasters plain and simple.
Metamorphosis, Mind Switch - True and Astral Construct might want to have a word with you outside. Then there's the whole erudite thing that can cast each and every arcane spell in the game.
Then there's the whole erudite thing that can cast each and every arcane spell in the game.
At the cost of mucho xp...
If you want a massively damaging archer build, Check out Gatling Bowgun in my sig, it can eventually shoot off a storm of arrows (gonna propose that title to george martin) and deal massive damage.
- Have a party spellcaster dispel it (or do it yourself if you are a cleric archer)
- Run through it and shoot on the other side. This is a possible tactic for Swift Hunter archers.
- Fly over it and shoot down. The wall has to be vertical and won't protect against arrows shot straight down.
- Ask your DM if a Soulbow's Mind Arrows are affected by the spell. If not, its a nice advantage. I played a Ranger/Soulknife/Soulbow Archer who was an assassin. At mid levels, he used a wand of Hunter's Mercy combined with a Bane Mind Arrow and Greater Manyshot to take his targets down with one shot, but I digress.
The spell shouldn't come up all the time, but if it comes up with any regularity, you should have a plan to deal with it.
I was thinking a more classic archer, whose cheese factor is low enough not to get tossed by my DM. What I was looking for though, more than anything, was a build out of left field, that would kick ass and take names. Something to make my DM say something along the lines of WTF?
Then you should really play a Swift hunter. Really.
You'll have tons of skills for any situation (if you're human, take able learner as your bonus feat...), a very good damage output, lots of mobility and none of weaknesses of precision based damage with a careful choice of favoured enemies.
All this and more with no cheese involved. I've yet to find a DM that wouldn't allow it.
A sample build is bard8/fighter2/sblimechord2/abjurantchampion5/sacredexorcist3. A very flexible build that can do a little bit of everything.
I was thinking a more classic archer, whose cheese factor is low enough not to get tossed by my DM. What I was looking for though, more than anything, was a build out of left field, that would kick ass and take names. Something to make my DM say something along the lines of WTF?
Bardadin Archer, gogo left field
Obviously nowhere near the power level of gatling bowgun, but nobody will see it coming and its not as weak as the concept of a bard paladin archer might sound at first. A bit of inspire courage optimizing (as discussed in numerous other threads) will make it a very strong buff character with not stellar but certainly respectable ranged damage output (force splitting hand crossbow with hand crossbow focus and crossbow sniper feats). With the majority of the levels as bard levels (pal4/bard16 for example) the character also makes for a good party face.
It also has pretty good saves with divine grace. If you take 5 levels of paladin you can take the paladin alternate that sacrifices mount for the ability to have your divine grace affect the whole party a few times per day (stand fast or something, i forget where its from
)Or bard/warblade with white raven song and some of the maneuvers that gatling bowgun uses. This will do more damage but less of a buffer/face.
I just like builds that incorporate a bit (or a lot) of bard