For flavor reasons, I would prefer to stay with standard bows rather than cross bows even though monks have proficiency in crossbows and not standard. I'm flexible on that though.
I was thinking of using monk as the base class and simply using character feats to choose archery related feats but there has to be a better way.
For the basic foundation of the bow itself, I was thinking of an Elvencraft longbow since it counts as a quarterstaff in melee and you don't waste any time or actions drawing or switching weapons between ranged and melee and of course, quarterstaff is a monk weapon. Also there is a weapon style feat from one of the Dragon magazines called "Frontline Archer" which allows you to make trip attacks with your bow.
So, now I have a bow that is simultaneously a quarterstaff so I am ready for ranged or melee attacks at all time with no drawing or switching, and I can make trip attacks with it, something you normally could not do with either weapon. I think that is pretty nice.
I wouldn;t mind emphasizing the archer part at the expense of the monk part, even substantially so. The vision there being an archer who has a trick up his sleeve for those who get too close.
So, help a brother out folks.
tsh77769
Zen archery seems good for the build.
Ninja from CAdv is a better base class for what you're trying to pull off, IMO.
That's how far I can advice you if I (and others) don't know about what books are available, what level are we talking, and all that jazz.
But, I would be entirely willing to take a level of a class that had martial weapon proficiency or another race that had bow profiency (if there is one?) or even go full monk but spend a feat on great bow.
As I said before, I am also willing to focus on the archer part at the expense of the monk part. In fact the more I think of it, the more appeal this has. A healthy dosoe of archer with a moderate does of monk.
I had not considered the Ninja. I know what you are talking about, from Complete adventruer but I had simply not thought of it. Thanks. I will check t out, though if I recall, I found it not so interesting.
Tsh7776
Archery is primarily Feat intensive.... also it is Mainly Dex based(since the feats req high Dex)
Monks primary ability is Wis, but thier secondary ability is Dex... so they should work great
id say try this(Core only):
Wood Elf (+2 Dex, +2 Str, -2 Con,–2 Int) fav Class: Ranger
Ranger 9/ Monk 11
32 point buy
12 Str (10 +2 racial)
18 Dex (16 +2 racial)
12 Con (14 -2 racial)
10 Int (12 -2 racial)
16 Wis (16)
8 Cha(8)
Feats:
Track(ranger Bonus)
Rapid Shot(ranger Bonus)
Stunning Fist(monk bonus)
Combat Reflexes(monk bonus)
Imp Trip(monk Bonus)
Manyshot(Ranger bonus)
Weapon Finnesse.............. thus all your attacks are based on Dex
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Whirling Steel Strike
Robilars Gambit
Ascetic Hunter [General](CAdv p105)req:Improved Unarmed Strike, Favored Enemy class ability
When you use an Unarmed Strike to deliver a Stunning Attack against a Favored Enemy, add one-half your Favored Enemy bonus to the DC of your Stunning attempt. If you have levels in both Ranger and Monk, those levels stack to determine your Unarmed Damage. You may multiclass between Ranger and Monk freely (alignment and XP penalties still apply as normal).
Woodland Archer[Tactical, Fighter](RotW p154)req: Point Blank Shot,Base Attack Bonus +6
You may use the following 3 tactical maneuvers:[indent]
Adjust for Range – If you miss a foe with a projectile weapon, you gain a +4 bonus on all other attacks in the same round to hit the same foe.
Pierce the Foliage – If you hit a foe with a Miss Chance due to Concealment with a ranged attack, you can ignore the Miss Chance against the same foe in the following round.
Moving Sniper – If you succeed in a Sniping Attack (i.e., hit your foe and make a Hide check to remain hidden), the following round you can make a single attack, take a Move Action (normally not allowed), and then make a Hide check to remain hidden. As long as you remain unseen, you can continue making Sniping Attacks.[/indent]
thus you get the most from both:
Greater Flurry from Monk
Great Skills and 2 bonus feats from Ranger(Rapid Shot, Manyshot)
great saves
:D
Also, you want to have something so that you can always use your Dex instead of your Str to trip. Don't know if that exists for non-small creatures.
Does a monk need Wis for anything other than Stunning Fist DC?
AC
AC
Obviously, but Dex does so, too - so raise the one that gives the greater benefit.
Your ability to spontaenously cast Summon Build IX never cease to impress me
Carnivore :
Your ability to spontaenously cast Summon Build IX never cease to impress me
i took Innate Spell(Summon Build IX) so that i could ;)
ranger 9 seems worthless though, since you already get evasion from monk. ranger8/monk12 would be better and have the same BAB
good point ... very nice ..... much better
:D
Does a monk need Wis for anything other than Stunning Fist DC? If you don't use Stunning Fist then you don't need high Wis, hence, skip Zen Archery and rather raise Dex.
Also, you want to have something so that you can always use your Dex instead of your Str to trip. Don't know if that exists for non-small creatures.
Eh, I was thinking Ninja the whole time... Wis is great for 'em :D
Obviously, but Dex does so, too - so raise the one that gives the greater benefit.
You don't lose Wis to AC when flat-footed.
The main advantages a monk has for archery are 1) speed, 2) still armed thanks to unarmed strike, 3) Deflect Arrows bonus feat, and 4) good saves. So good "jumping off" points are levels where the monk gets a boost to speed, i.e. 3, 6, and 12 (I left out 9, due to the BAB loss). Do note that this is an enhancement bonus, though, and so won't stack with most magical effects that boost speed.
So, now I have a bow that is simultaneously a quarterstaff so I am ready for ranged or melee attacks at all time with no drawing or switching, and I can make trip attacks with it, something you normally could not do with either weapon. I think that is pretty nice.
Monk's can use their unarmed strike even when their hands are full, and can trip with it. So you're not really gaining much here.
Cloistered Cleric 1/Monk 2/Fighter 2 into Chameleon is a nice start for that. Make sure you take the Trickery domain, and you might consider picking up Knowledge Devotion over the Knowledge domain, as well.
I'd go something like this:
Human, Domains: Planning, Trickery, Knowledge (traded for Devotion)
1- Able Learner, Persistent Spell, Extend Spell*, Knowledge Devotion*
2- IUS*, Stunning Fist*
3- Zen Archery, Deflect Arrows*
4- Point Blank Shot*
5- Precise Shot*
6- Quicken Spell or Chain Spell or Rapid Shot
* = bonus feat gained from class
Use your floating feat from Chameleon for Divine Metamagic, picking whatever metamagic will be most useful to you that day.
Ability scores should go Wis -> Con -> Int -> Str -> Dex -> Cha.
Glove of Storing: This device is a simple leather glove. On command, one item held in the hand wearing the glove disappears. The item can weigh no more than 20 pounds and must be able to be held in one hand. While stored, the item has negligible weight. With a snap of the fingers wearing the glove, the item reappears. A glove can only store one item at a time. Storing or retrieving the item is a free action. The item is held in stasis and shrunk down so small within the palm of the glove that it cannot be seen. Spell durations are not suppressed, but continue to expire. If an effect is suppressed or dispelled, the stored item appears instantly.
Faint transmutation; CL 6th; Craft Wondrous Item, shrink item; Price 10,000 gp (one glove).
keep Long Bow stored in one Glove, and Longsword in the other ... it is a FREE Action to store or retrieve a weapon.... so you can start with what appears to be Empty hands, then on your turn (free action.. retrieve Bow) fire arrows at enemy (free action store bow), then when they close for melee, (Free action.. Retrieve Longsword) greater Flurry with the longSword and Interchange Open Handed strikes.... if you have Improved Disarm, you can even grab thier weapon away from them ;)
:D
keep Long Bow stored in one Glove, and Longsword in the other ... it is a FREE Action to store or retrieve a weapon.... so you can start with what appears to be Empty hands, then on your turn (free action.. retrieve Bow) fire arrows at enemy (free action store bow), then when they close for melee, (Free action.. Retrieve Longsword) greater Flurry with the longSword and Interchange Open Handed strikes.... if you have Improved Disarm, you can even grab thier weapon away from them ;)
Or you could just use a normal bow and then kick them in the face if they get close. For free.
I might consider one Glove of Storing just so you could put your bow away and avoid getting it sundered if someone closes to melee with you. But with your high speed, you're probably better off taking Shot on the Run and just running away from them. Make sure to put a few ranks in Tumble.
However, if you can get by with it, use this instead (from the Bunko's thread);
Gloves of the Master Strategist (Ghostwalk, 3,600 gp) True Strike 1/day and functions like gloves of storing
:D
Monk 2 / Psychic Warrior X
Feats:
Zen Archery
Tashalatora
Archery requires a lot of feats and PsyWar will help you get them. If your Dex is too low for some of the archery feats, you can always use Animal Affinity to increase your Dex to gain access.
I've seen some impressive PsyWar archer builds in this forum recently, try a search. With Tashalatora, Monk/PsyWar becomes too powerful a combo to ignore. With Zen Archery, Wis becomes almost the only stat you need!
Thanks for pointing out the waste of a feat with the using the bow to trip thing.
Carnivore, dude, you are the man, seriously.
BTW, I think I might want to take Chaos monk instead of the regular version and possibly stop at level 9. This is when they reach the point where there version of flrry (flailing or some such thing) has no penalty to hit.
One divergent possibility I thought of was Goliath, Dragonborn, Fighter (maybe Targeteer or Exoticist variant) 4, Barbarian 7, Chaos Monk 9 (not necessarily in that order). GM says that Goliath monks do large unarmed damage. I know that he would suffer badly on Dex. But, I thought, OK, ditch the whole bow concept and go with the War Sling and the feat from CAdv. that lets you use strength instead of dex for thown weapons and slings. Another advantage of this is that I would not have to wory about my mighty bow rating as I raged or got enhancements. Goliath can use large weapons at no penalty. A medium warsling does 1D8 so a large one does 2D6 if I understand correctly.
So here you have a guy that is really versatile. Good strength and con. plus rage, good hand to hand, and good ranged capabilites.
As for dex and AC, well, don't let them get that close, if they do, rage flurry, and kill them as quickly as possible.
I know that it is a radical departure from what I was initially talking about but I was inspired to this tangent by the original ideas.
tsh77769
However, to be all rule lawyer about it, the Warsling is actually the Halfling Warlsing and the Halfings are known for thier experteise in thrown weapons and their combat use thereof, additionally, it IS a seperate exotic weapon requiring a feat to operate and the use of special exotic ammunition (skip rocks), furthermore, it des not mention anything like the restrictions on normal slings in ANY warlsing description I can find anywhere.Thus, I feel confident in arguing that the regular sling restrictions do not appy to the exotic halfling warsling.
Tsh77769
QUICK DRAW [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill) as a move action.
A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).
Normal: Without this feat, you may draw a weapon as a move action, or (if your base attack bonus is +1 or higher) as a free action as part of movement. Without this feat, you can draw a hidden weapon as a standard action.
Special: A fighter may select Quick Draw as one of his fighter bonus feats.
:D
Your Strength modifier applies to damage rolls when you use a sling, just as it does for thrown weapons. You can fire, but not load, a sling with one hand. Loading a sling is a move action that requires two hands and provokes attacks of opportunity.
The underlined part shows that they are not thrown weapons. The bold part shows why you can only fire once per round, without doing something odd like keeping 10 pre-loaded ones in your belt.
I'm not familiar with the Halfling Warsling, but if it says it "works like a sling, except where noted here", and it doesn't specify how you reload it, then it works like the sling...
There have been threads devoted solely to discussing this, and the conclusion for all of them was that you can't normally fire a sling multiple times per round, without a house rule. (A common one is to let the Rapid Reload feat work for slings.)
Quickdraw wouldn't help, unless you kept a bunch of preloaded slings in your belt or something,
And there it is, the ultimate solution. Just carry 50 or so slings around, pre-loaded, at all times.
Lol, then be a thri-keen for double the action... :D
And there it is, the ultimate solution. Just carry 50 or so slings around, pre-loaded, at all times.
Afterall, slings are weightless and free!
Good stuff.