I'm not an expert at optimization, but I can do a little bit. My question, why is the Archivist regarded as overpowered by so many? Would any one care to explain why, and give some links to some archivist optimization maybe? I like reading people break the game 
Learns from scrolls. It can learn any spell that any divine class has at the lowest level that it has. There are some spells that are really early with some prestige classes that grant spells. Such as greater invisibility at 4th level from some of the Book of Exalted Deeds prestige classes. Ridiculous spell pool at lower levels in a lot of cases for the more important ones.
let me know if this answers your question: brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...
by the way -- yeah, i guess you can go ahead an use my avatar; just make sure to ask next time 
The Archivist can learn any divine spell. Cleric, Druid, Ranger, Paladin, Divine Bard, Shugenja, Adept, all domains, and prestige classes. That alone is enough to make them tier 1, as their array of spells is ridiculously vast, perhaps even more so than any other class, arguably making them even more powerful than Wizards.
Beyond that? With Holt Warden, they (arguably) gain domain slots which allow them to cast Anyspell and Greater Anyspell, which allow them to cast any arcane spell up to fifth level, as well, just to expand upon the insanity. So, every spell in the game up through level 5, and every divine spell beyond that.
Turn Undead is available through numerous prestige classes easily enough, allowing Archivists free roam of divine feat shenanigans, as well.
Ah...all spells up to 5th leavel. That is a tad ridiculous. Thanks for the help.
Also, for the avvy thing, I just picked this for lack of a better picture. Ill change soon.
Archivist is similar to a wizard in the way it learns spells. Hence, abusable. So much diversity can make a character powerful.
On a separate note, this new forum is, uh... interesting. I'm not sure if I like it.
If Geomancers (Complete Divine) are handy to convert arcane spells to divine, an Archivist could learn every spell.
The archivist is one of those classes that has potential for brokenation in the hypothetical sense; you can come up with all sorts of scenarios wherein a hypothetical Archivist gains access to myriad spells. On the other hand, access to spells is often restricted in game by the DM. Which sucks and is lame, but there ya go.
The key to guranteeing that you can break the archivist is in using things that are already broken, specifically things like XP-free wishes. The problem is that these tricks are available to everyone, so in the end, the Archivist is like a poor man's Wizard XOR Cleric.
Which is lame.
access to spells is often restricted in game by the DM. Which sucks and is lame, but there ya go.
Man, I'd talk to your DM about having restricted access. That's the lifeblood of a wizard. Sure, don't let the players go willy nilly, but if the wizard can't pick up any spell books or scrolls then he's gimped even more then before.
The key to guranteeing that you can break the archivist is in using things that are already broken, specifically things like XP-free wishes. The problem is that these tricks are available to everyone, so in the end, the Archivist is like a poor man's Wizard XOR Cleric.
Which is lame.
I disagree with the "lame" qualification. Access to, say, 9th level spells from all domains is something neither Cleric nor Wizard can replicate*.
Give me Shapechange + Time Stop + Monstrous Thrall + Choose Destiny + Greater Visage of the Deity ... and I'm a happy Archivist. :-)
If you only care about broken-ness, I do agree the Archivist adds little in the way of it.
* except with TO tricks. Very specific Clericbuilds like Sovereign Speaker may work with some houseruling regarding domains ; Arcane Disciple is unlikely to work due to its requirement (you need a deity to have all the domains you're interested in.
by the way -- yeah, i guess you can go ahead an use my avatar; just make sure to ask next time
Pffft. You should stab him for usingyour avatar. I know I would.
The key to guranteeing that you can break the archivist is in using things that are already broken, specifically things like XP-free wishes. The problem is that these tricks are available to everyone, so in the end, the Archivist is like a poor man's Wizard XOR Cleric.
Which is lame.
I disagree. No other class has access to every spell through geomancer, anyspell, and the archivists ability to learn any divine spell from a scroll.
The archivist is one of those classes that has potential for brokenation in the hypothetical sense; you can come up with all sorts of scenarios wherein a hypothetical Archivist gains access to myriad spells. On the other hand, access to spells is often restricted in game by the DM. Which sucks and is lame, but there ya go.
Such restrictions fall well within the Big Deal, unfair, and houserule subcategories. After all, the rules rather explicitly state you can find pretty much anything within a city's wealth capacity in any given city, which includes spells. If the DM lets the Fighter go buy an 8,000gp sword and then hassles you over a few 200gp spells, that's a case of the DM deliberately singling you out and saying, "Up yours." "The DM can be a prick," isn't a case against any class's power, since the DM can always be a prick.
But even then, get a Warlock or Artificer cohort to make you scrolls of those spells you're being disallowed, and stock up.
It has been errattaed that artificer scrolls are neither arcane nor divine so that approach does not work.
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Also, for the avvy thing, I just picked this for lack of a better picture. Ill change soon.
no, it's an awesome pic -- i was just rattling your chain. (it's just that now I actually have to look at the name, instead of just the picture, when sorting through posts).
by the way -- yeah, i guess you can go ahead an use my avatar; just make sure to ask next time
Pffft. You should stab him for usingyour avatar. I know I would.
right, but who else would even think using that as an avatar?
(wow, these emoticons REALLY suck)
A warlock with good cha and Max UMD can also cast any spell in the game via scrolls if the DM is so happy to hand them out. A wizard can research arcane versions of any cleric spell in the game, if the DM allows the research to succeed.
The fact that an archivist is only guaranteed access to the basic cleric list for spells, since those are the only ones she can pick from when leveling up, is very much worth noting. Yeah, a DM that doesn't give you anything past that is being a jerk, but you can't assume that every city has 20th level clerics of every faith making divine scrolls of their special domain spells to sell to the general public. You're probably going to get a few really choice spells that clerics don't have access to, and you're probably going to be able to buy a few specific spells that you want, but you can't assume total access, as everything is specifically filtered through the DM.
So yes, an archivist can have the power of several full spellcasters in one. But in a given game, an archivist is very likely going to be less powerful then a cleric or wizard. That said, they're still going to be more powerful then a sorcerer or favored soul, since even in a more restrictive game they're much more versatile. then a spontaneous caster.
Unless, of course you have an artificer in the party to make scrolls for you (although even that is dependant on the DM giving him time enough to make items), or a cohort to do the same (although DMs that allow the Leadership feat are rare in and of themselves).
Unless, of course you have an artificer in the party to make scrolls for you (although even that is dependant on the DM giving him time enough to make items), or a cohort to do the same (although DMs that allow the Leadership feat are rare in and of themselves).
See my above post. Also going by Raw we can assume scrolls of XYZ are in every city because of the wealth rules. The most the DM can do is double the cost and still be within RAW (I believe that was the upper limit in cityscape).
A warlock with good cha and Max UMD can also cast any spell in the game via scrolls if the DM is so happy to hand them out. A wizard can research arcane versions of any cleric spell in the game, if the DM allows the research to succeed.
The latter is Burning Wallet Style and the former is a frame presented for possible houserules. Neither is the ability to cast every spell in the game under your own power. By your logic, a Commoner with enough UMD can cast every spell in the game, even though she clearly couldn't do so consistently, reliably, or sustainably, and it would be flat too expensive.
The fact that an archivist is only guaranteed access to the basic cleric list for spells, since those are the only ones she can pick from when leveling up, is very much worth noting. Yeah, a DM that doesn't give you anything past that is being a jerk, but you can't assume that every city has 20th level clerics of every faith making divine scrolls of their special domain spells to sell to the general public. You're probably going to get a few really choice spells that clerics don't have access to, and you're probably going to be able to buy a few specific spells that you want, but you can't assume total access, as everything is specifically filtered through the DM.
The Archivist is guaranteed access to pretty much everything by default rules. A city has everything within its wealth capacity available by default, and for the DM to declare otherwise is a houserule at best and a tactical, "Screw you," to the folks with spellbooks at worst. You can assume every sufficiently city has every spell of every faith because learning a 9th level spell is only a 450g service, well within the wealth capacity of a large city. For the DM to do otherwise while allowing the Fighter to buy swords with values in the 10k+ range unimpeded is a case of the DM deliberately lashing out against a single player, which holds no bearing on the actual strength of that class, as the DM is capable of doing the same of everyone.
The fact that the DM is more likely to lash out against the Archivist in this manner is not a weakness of the Archivist. It holds no bearing on the tremendous power the Archivist holds, as it is in no way a part of the rules. It's just a social convention stemming from the Archivist being ridiculously powerful, rather than a **** in their ridiculous power.
Also going by Raw we can assume scrolls of XYZ are in every city because of the wealth rules. The most the DM can do is double the cost and still be within RAW (I believe that was the upper limit in cityscape).
Hmm. I guess with regard to the wealth rules, I have never in 20 years of playing, played in a game where the DM tries to be within RAW. They always constrain trade. You guys must be lucky.
by the way -- yeah, i guess you can go ahead an use my avatar; just make sure to ask next time
Pffft. You should stab him for usingyour avatar. I know I would.
dude if someone stole my avatar I would destroy them!
Clearly we have reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us.
by the way -- yeah, i guess you can go ahead an use my avatar; just make sure to ask next time
Pffft. You should stab him for usingyour avatar. I know I would.
dude if someone stole my avatar I would destroy them!
ZOMFG!!! THERE'S 2 OF YOU?!?!?! AAAAAAAAGGGHHHHH!
There is the versatile spell caster feat from dragon magazine that allows arcane spells to be converted to divine and vice versa. With that, all arcane spells are available. Also the prestige class divine champion from complete divine has any one domain as its spell list so any domain is available as well with the formentioned Warlock crafting trick.
This is even more fun with the etrudent psionic varient that can learn any arcane spell as a psionic power just by seeing it.