The reason for this question is basically this: A player wants to play a Focused Specialist (Conjurer) 5, Incantatrix 10, Archmage 5. Is that doable considering the entry requirements?
As for your friend there, following that path, he wouldn't be able to meet that requirement, being able to cast from only 4 schools (3 banned for focused conjuerer, and 1 banned for incantatrix, out of total 8).
Transmutation, Conjuration, Evocation, Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy, Abjuration, Divination and Universal. But maybe the last one doesn't count...?
Knowledge of a spell for that would be having it on your spells known list (in the case of spontaneous casters like the sorcerer) or having it in your spellbook (in the case of a wizard).
As for your friend there, following that path, he wouldn't be able to meet that requirement, being able to cast from only 4 schools (3 banned for focused conjuerer, and 1 banned for incantatrix, out of total 8).
Why not? Just because you can't cast the spells doesn't mean you can't have them in your spellbook. You just can't memorize and cast them, right? Since you said that knowledge would be "having it your spellbook" for a wizard, that should qualify.
Er,
Transmutation, Conjuration, Evocation, Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy, Abjuration, Divination and Universal. But maybe the last one doesn't count...?
Universal does not count as a school of magic.
If that doesn't fly let him take Item Reprieve, Spell Reprieve and then Arcane Transfiguration, and get back a banned school, sure its feat intensive but hey it does work. (feats from Lost Empires of Faerun)
well theres 8 schools, loses 3 for focused specialist, so he can have spells from 5 diffrent schools, once he goes into Incantatrix he bans another school, but normally you retain the spells you had before you banned them, just cant add anmore of them to your spellbooks, so just make sure he has spells from the 5 schools before he hits incantatrix,
Archmage requires that the spells from 5 different schools be 5th lvl or higher, and with his proposed path of leveling, he'd only have 3rd lvl spells when he hit incantatrix.
@Cuindless: Also, as far as I've always understood, the banned schools applied to adding them to the spellbook as well.
Archmage requires that the spells from 5 different schools be 5th lvl or higher, and with his proposed path of leveling, he'd only have 3rd lvl spells when he hit incantatrix.
@Cuindless: Also, as far as I've always understood, the banned schools applied to adding them to the spellbook as well.
He could easily copy a scroll of a 5th-level spell from each school into his spellbook before Incantatrix.
Nothing prevents you from scribing spells into your spellbook before you are able to actually cast them yourself.
~P_X~
I think it's pretty clear that the intent is that knowledge of includes the ability to cast. Arguably, you don't have knowledge of a spell if you cannot cast it.
However, taken under a very lenient interpretation, this could indicate that simply knowing the names of spells from 5 different schools would be enough...
Based on what I see, I'd say that he couldn't take Archmage with 4 banned schools. Especially since Archmage prerequisites indicate that he studies a broad range of magic.
However, its up to the DM. "His word is as law". (points to those who recognize the quote). If he wants it to be possible, it will.
Either remove the prereq. and change the flavor OR make another school of magic and populate it with existing spells that fit (like summoning).
That's how I feel.
Well, this is certainly a good place to take this question.
I think it's pretty clear that the intent is that knowledge of includes the ability to cast. Arguably, you don't have knowledge of a spell if you cannot cast it.
I'm not sure I agree that the intent is clear at all, considering the sentence before clearly says "ability to cast". If they meant ability to cast, why didn't they just say it? "Ability to cast" is clear, "Knowledge of" is not.
However, taken under a very lenient interpretation, this could indicate that simply knowing the names of spells from 5 different schools would be enough...
Based on what I see, I'd say that he couldn't take Archmage with 4 banned schools. Especially since Archmage prerequisites indicate that he studies a broad range of magic.
Where does it indicate that? The description on page 178 of the DMG makes no such statement. It even says that most archmages are wizards or sorcerers, which arguably have the least broad range of all arcanists.
However, its up to the DM. "His word is as law". (points to those who recognize the quote). If he wants it to be possible, it will.
I am the DM. I'm asking for advice.
Either remove the prereq. and change the flavor OR make another school of magic and populate it with existing spells that fit (like summoning).
That's how I feel.
Removing the prerequisite isn't an option. I don't see why the flavor needs to change. I'm not going to invent another school of magic. I do thank you for your opinion, but I think you're being a bit hardline in your interpretation. To me, there's obviously a difference between "ability to cast" and "knowledge of", I'm just wondering what the latter means in mechanical terms.
He could easily copy a scroll of a 5th-level spell from each school into his spellbook before Incantatrix.
Nothing prevents you from scribing spells into your spellbook before you are able to actually cast them yourself.
~P_X~
Do you think that would satisfy the "knowledge of" prerequisite for the purposes of qualifying for the prestige class?
Diversified Casting. You can add up to three spells from your banned schools list to your spell list. You can take the feat once per banned school you have, but once should be enough.
Then, Caedrus waited for someone to question the validity of Dragon.
C.
:D
The question asked in the first post is something that I had asked over here.
The basic is how can you start with 3 banned schools (e.g. Focused Specialist varient), gain one more banned school (via PrC) and still apply for the Archmage PrC. Though I have no idea how you can ban this amount of schools for Sorcerer, I'd like to see an answer that would cover him too.
IMO, the archmage requirement of
knowledge of 5th-level or higher spells from at least five schools.
does not represent the ability to cast them otherwise it would have stated "ability to cast yadda yadda..." and it also doesn't mean naming spells ("what? fireball? yeah, I know that one. big ball of fire") otherwise it would have had no point in asling for it as a requirement. It need to be somewhere in between.
So, thanks in advance for all your helpfull input.
It is much appreciated.
@BigRobC101 -
The feat chain from Lost Empires of Faerun is something that I'm aware of. But given the fact that you have to get those in 5 levels time restraint it is very hard to pull. Otherwise you're still delaying entry to the PrC. And if you already do so then it might be better to simply learn those spells rather then to throw away 3 feats.
Then again... I might need to double check it. Dunno.
@Panserbjorn_X -
He could easily copy a scroll of a 5th-level spell from each school into his spellbook before Incantatrix.
Nothing prevents you from scribing spells into your spellbook before you are able to actually cast them yourself.
~P_X~
Well, being a sorcerer prevents you from scribing spells. And I don't know what the rules say about copying spells above your level to your spellbook. If my memory doesn't decieve me, the 3rd edition had this punish of ability score i you failed at copying spells above your level. But I might be confusing something.
I also don't recall anything against copying spells after you banned the school.
Can anyone pinpoint me the existance of rules regarding:
A. Copying/Learning spells for a banned school (Wiz/Sor).
B. Copying spells higher then the level of spells you can cast (Wiz only).
@WWAD -
That is not a soloution since the idea is of a focus transmuter, and how (if at all) it can be done.
@Caedrus -
If there is such a feat it might be the answer (albeit a wierd one since it doesn't really answer anything. Just a way of bypassing the problem). I'll have to see how I can get my hands on that issue and see the feat for myself. How does it affect Sorcerers and Wizards apart.
the easy way..... just take the feat: Heighten Spell..... thus he can make All the spells he knows at least 5th level... and qualifies for the PrC
:D
:OMG!
I think you just shattered the universe...
Have a
nice mister. Don't bite me, please. 
C.
does not represent the ability to cast them otherwise it would have stated "ability to cast yadda yadda..." and it also doesn't mean naming spells ("what? fireball? yeah, I know that one. big ball of fire") otherwise it would have had no point in asling for it as a requirement. It need to be somewhere in between.
If that is the case, then they could just buy a spellbook with those spells scribed inside them, could they not?:P
Heighten Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit
A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies.
:OMG! I agree... Carnivore just shattered the universe... He wins the thread.
If that is the case, then they could just buy a spellbook with those spells scribed inside them, could they not?:P
Seems like the easiest solution, unless he would rather waste a feat slot on the dragon magazine feat to get 3 spells back.
The feat I mentioned doesn't have any effect for Sorcerors, since they can't, under normal circumstances, have banned schools.
C.
No it doesn't work for sorcerers for these spells are added to your spell list, but not your spells known list. So an Sorcerer/Incantatrix who takes this feat can only use spell completion/trigger items of those 3 spells.
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But based off how this ability is worded, adding spells to your spells list, in theory you can add spells not normally on your spell list, such as miracle to a wizard who bans evocation to his spell list. Or similar other spells, if you ban necromancy you can grab favor of the martyr, enervation, and one more necromancy spell...