Behold!!! the "no drawback for wearing it armor":
Thisledown-padded Mithral Breastplate +1 of Nimbleness and Twilight, with Armor Lubricant
Mithral: [DMG] +2 max dex; -3 armor check penalty; -10% arcane spell failure.
Twilight: [BoED] cost +1; -10% arcane spell failure.
Nimbleness: [MoF] cost +1; +2 max dex; -1 armor check penalty.
Thisledown padding: [RotW] a few gp; +1 armor check penalty; -5% arcane spell failure.
and finally, to get rid of the +1 armor check penalty we get with Thisledown padding...
Armor Lubricant: [RoF] a few gp (40gp I think); lasts 1d4 hours per application; -1 armor check penalty!!!
For a grand total of...
AC +6; Max Dex +7; Armor Check Penalty -0; Arcane Spell Failure 0%
*writes down* this is useful .
Your armor should cost something like 15k and last forever (given nothing destroys it). It cannot be dispelled, and you can increase the armor bonus as your finances increase as well as slap on elemental resistances and stuff like that.
For flavor reasons I'd go with Greater Mage Armor on a very wizardly wizard. If it's something more gish then just take a level of Spellsword.
Call me a grinch, but why don't you just use (Greater) Mage Armor?
I've been the recent target of way too many Greater Dispel Magic spells to comfortably answer this question ;)
Plus, nothing like "hiding out" by looking like a mouth-breathing tank before opening up with some arcane love...
But theres a flaw in your little plan. Mages are not known for their strength. That armour would be pretty heavy. You would have to put some points into strength and take away from abilities like wisdom, charisma or constitution!
But its still an interesting idea!
you still need two feats to wear it. It really isnt worth it at all.
Not really--a mithral breastplate is light armor. Additionally, since it has no armor check penalty, there's no penalty for being non-proficient while wearing it. Ok, two times the armor check penalty on attack rolls, blah blah blah--but the armor check penalty is zero.
So you're fine.
Not really--a mithral breastplate is light armor. Additionally, since it has no armor check penalty, there's no penalty for being non-proficient while wearing it. Ok, two times the armor check penalty on attack rolls, blah blah blah--but the armor check penalty is zero.
So you're fine.
Ok so with the zero penalty it just like wearing no armor but you need to be proficient with medium armor to use medium armor. It is only treated as being light for the purposes of movement and the like. It is still considered medium armor from a proficiency stand point thus 2 feats.
Edit: im not saying you can't use the armor you just need 2 feats to use it properly.
Double Edit: Common Sense is important with this one.
Mithril Tesselated Fullplate of twilight & nimbleness. This gives you:
light Armor (tumble is allowed, works w/ several class abilities, no movement penalty)
Armor Check Penalty -0
Base AC +8
Dex Bonus +5
Armor Check Penalty: 5%
Now add a thistledown undergarment and do your armor lubricant trick, and there you go.
Technically this is the same base AC as your armor, but only if you happen to have a +7 dex bonus. It does cost quite a bit more however, because tesselated armor starts out with a +2 enhancement bonus, meaning that all the other enhancements cost more, plus it is full plate, pluss it's base price is 16k IIRC.
I've been the recent target of way too many Greater Dispel Magic spells to comfortably answer this question ;)
Yeah? And what do you do when someone casts greater dispel magic on your armor, suppressing the twilight and nimbleness enhancements and leaving you with ASF issues?
I think Greater Mage Armor still wins the pie here! I would rather simply have my AC go down from a dispel than have to deal with several rounds of casting problems.
Ok so with the zero penalty it just like wearing no armor but you need to be proficient with medium armor to use medium armor. It is only treated as being light for the purposes of movement and the like. It is still considered medium armor from a proficiency stand point thus 2 feats.
Edit: im not saying you can't use the armor you just need 2 feats to use it properly.
Double Edit: Common Sense is important with this one.
Let's take a look what the rules actually say:
"A character who is wearing armor with which she is not proficient applies its armor check penalty to attack rolls and to all skill checks that involve moving, including Ride."
Oh look, you don't need the feats to use this particular armor setup to maximum effectiveness.
Dispelling Greater Mage Armor is a waste of an action, too. Even more of a waste. If the OP is worried about his opponents doing that, he should be even more worried about his armor getting suppressed.
In our current campaign, targeted Dispel spells are a dime-a-dozen. The mage (and others, for that matter) is constantly stripped of his buffs, including Mage Armor, Shield, etc. Our group leads off most combats with it, in fact. We hold onto Rings of Counterspells like they were winning lotto tickets.
With the OP's magically delicious armor, this is less of an issue. Granted, however, if the armor ever gets surpressed by a Dispel actually targeted at the armor, he's in hot water. For a whopping 1d4 rounds. But Dispels targeting equipment -- especially armor, of all things -- and not characters are very rare. At least in my endeavors. Your mileage may vary.
I finally found the perfect wizard armor!!!
Behold!!! the "no drawback for wearing it armor":
Thisledown-padded Mithral Breastplate +1 of Nimbleness and Twilight, with Armor Lubricant
Mithral: [DMG] +2 max dex; -3 armor check penalty; -10% arcane spell failure.
Twilight: [BoED] cost +1; -10% arcane spell failure.
Nimbleness: [MoF] cost +1; +2 max dex; -1 armor check penalty.
Thisledown padding: [RotW] a few gp; +1 armor check penalty; -5% arcane spell failure.
and finally, to get rid of the +1 armor check penalty we get with Thisledown padding...
Armor Lubricant: [RoF] a few gp (40gp I think); lasts 1d4 hours per application; -1 armor check penalty!!!
For a grand total of...
AC +6; Max Dex +7; Armor Check Penalty -0; Arcane Spell Failure 0%
Add a mythril dustana to that its another +1 ac that stacks with armor and shield bonus no armor check penalty or spell failure eather
but it's still more armour... if you're looking for that sort of thing...
Gnomish Battle Cloaks (RoS) come to mind. 1 Shield Bonus to AC, 0 ACP, 0 Spell Fail chance. I've got an Arcane Trickster running about with one of those enchanted with Proof Vs. Transmutation. The enchantment hasn't kicked in yet, but when it does... whew!
but it's still more armour... if you're looking for that sort of thing...
note though the special mention in the battle cloak description of no Proficiency, no Shield bonus to AC
In the spirit of one-upmanship:
Mithril Tesselated Fullplate of twilight & nimbleness. This gives you:
light Armor (tumble is allowed, works w/ several class abilities, no movement penalty)
Armor Check Penalty -0
Base AC +8
Dex Bonus +5
Armor Check Penalty: 5%
Now add a thistledown undergarment and do your armor lubricant trick, and there you go.
Technically this is the same base AC as your armor, but only if you happen to have a +7 dex bonus. It does cost quite a bit more however, because tesselated armor starts out with a +2 enhancement bonus, meaning that all the other enhancements cost more, plus it is full plate, pluss it's base price is 16k IIRC.
Add githcraft (DMG2) to it to reduce the Arcane Spell Failure chance to 0%.
In the spirit of one-upmanship:
Mithril Tesselated Fullplate of twilight & nimbleness. This gives you:
light Armor (tumble is allowed, works w/ several class abilities, no movement penalty)
Armor Check Penalty -0
Base AC +8
Dex Bonus +5
Armor Check Penalty: 5%
Now add a thistledown undergarment and do your armor lubricant trick, and there you go.
Technically this is the same base AC as your armor, but only if you happen to have a +7 dex bonus. It does cost quite a bit more however, because tesselated armor starts out with a +2 enhancement bonus, meaning that all the other enhancements cost more, plus it is full plate, pluss it's base price is 16k IIRC.
Tesselated?
please, tell me more about this 'tessalation' you speak of... 
Blue Ice can be made into armor that has no ASF for Cold-subtyped spells. Cast spells with Snowcasting(which turns any spell into a cold-subtyped spell) and run around with some weak cold resistance(to negate Blue Ice's weak penalties) and a blue ice-chest for your snow(to cast with) and you can wear full plate with a tower shield.
Toss on Cold Focus and Greater Cold Focus for a +2 DC to all your spells, and you have a character made out of weapon-grade awesome.
AC +6; Max Dex +7; Armor Check Penalty -0; Arcane Spell Failure 0%; Weight 15 lbs
14,450 gp (plus the cost of armor lube)
+2 Twilight Mithral Shirt
AC +6; Max Dex +6; ACP 0; ASF 0%; Weight 10 lbs
10,100 gp
Some how I doubt most mages will have a 24 dex.
AC +6; Max Dex +6; ACP 0; ASF 0%; Weight 10 lbs
10,100 gp
my new favorite armour.
And as to the battle cloak, you can always use the "Proficient" enchantment out of Arms and Armour to get around that restriction without eating a feat.
It's only what my Arcane Trickster's looking at...
Thistledown-padded Mithral Breastplate +1 of Nimbleness and Twilight, with Armor Lubricant
AC +6; Max Dex +7; Armor Check Penalty -0; Arcane Spell Failure 0%; Weight 15 lbs
14,450 gp (plus the cost of armor lube)
+2 Twilight Mithral Shirt
AC +6; Max Dex +6; ACP 0; ASF 0%; Weight 10 lbs
10,100 gp
Some how I doubt most mages will have a 24 dex.
Or +2 Twilight Mithril Shirt plus Mithril Dastana
AC +7; Max Dex +6; ACP 0; ASF 0%; Weight 12.5
The Mithril Breastplate can't use Dastana--the chain shirt can. If your DM is being generous, you could even throw on a Mithril Chahar-aina for another +1 AC, though its also another 5 pounds.
Tesselated?
Tesselated armor is a magic item in the Arms and Equipment Guide. It looks like a box until you say the command word, it then breaks into a bunch of interlocking plates that flow over the wearer. These then conform to the shape of the wearer so that even though it is full plate it counts as medium armor. Make this out of mithril (or glassteel if you want to spend money to look cool), and the whole thing now counts as light armor. It funcitons otherwise as +2 full plate, except that it has a base armor check penalty of 25%.
It has a few other functions, but that's about it.
Note that there are two potential problems with this armor, and both depend on the DM. First, some DM's rule that since it is a specific armor type, you cannot further enhance it. There is nothing in the rules to support this ruling but some DM's are like that.
The second problem is that some DM's also rule that is falls off your body in an antimagic shell. Again there is nothing in the rules to supprot this ruling, and I would argue that since the rules are silent, it defaults as any other type of armor would, but again, YMMV.
It is only treated as being light for the purposes of movement and the like. It is still considered medium armor from a proficiency stand point thus 2 feats.
Though what you have said is not relevant in this case (zero penalty) you may like to know for when it comes up again mithral armour is considered 1 catergory lighter for both proficieincy and "movement and the like". See races of the wild IIRC.
+2 Twilight Mithral Shirt
AC +6; Max Dex +6; ACP 0; ASF 0%; Weight 10 lbs
10,100 gp
my new favorite armour.
And as to the battle cloak, you can always use the "Proficient" enchantment out of Arms and Armour to get around that restriction without eating a feat.
It's only what my Arcane Trickster's looking at...
That twilight mithral shirt is appealing, as it eschews the need for armor lubricant...
All spells with the cold descriptor can be cast while wearing blue ice armor with no chance of spell failure.
Both snowcasting and blue ice material are in the book Frostburn.
+1 blue ice full plate of nimbleness
Base AC +8
Dex Bonus +3
Enhancement +1
Total +12
Armor Check Penalty -3
Arcane Spell Failure 35% (0% with feat Snowcasting)
Price : 1,500 +7,000 +4,000 = 12,500 gp
Blue Ice Chain Shirt (non magical)
Base AC +4
Dex Bonus +5
Armor Check Penalty 0
Arcane Spell Failure 20% (0% with feat Snowcasting)
Price : 100 +750 = 850gp
Acidic and all these types are listed under special abilites and then has a description and bonus cost. However, Tesselated Armour is under the SPECIFIC ARMOUR category not the special qualities. And specific armour or weapons are "preconstructed with EXACTLY the QUALITIES described here" There are not designed to be added to with addition special qualities they
are built to be balanced standalone creations, that is why they have abilites that are not on the standard special qualities list... If they were meant to be customisable there would be no SPECIFIC armour category only a longer list of special qualitys (that include abilities such as tesselated) that you can customise your armour and weapons with. But that isnt the case...
However, if you want LEGAL armour and dont mind the weight cos you have high Strength and use saving throw spells not touch attach then try these:
Full Plate +8 AC, +1 Dex, -6 ACP, 35% ASF (1,500gp)
OR
Chain Shirt +4 AC, +4 Dex, -2 ACP, 20% ASF (100gp)
with...
Blended Quartz (Arms and Equipment Guide) x2 Weight, -20% ASF. (2,000gp for light armour, 10,000gp for heavy)
Twilight: [Book of Exalted Deeds] cost +1; -10% arcane spell failure.
Nimbleness: [Magic of Faerun] cost +1; +2 max dex; -1 armor check penalty.
Thisledown padding: [Races of the Wild] +1 armor check penalty; -5% arcane spell failure.
==
For example:
+1 Blended Quartz Full Plate of Twilight and Nimbleness (need the initial +1 enhancement bonus as you cannot apply special qualities to a weapon or armour until you first start with the +1 enhancement (read DMG if you dont believe me) ) with Thisledown Padding
Base AC +8
Dex Bonus +3
Enhancement +1
Total +12
Armour Chek Penalty -6
Arcane Spell Failure 0%
GP 1500+10000+9000=20,500gp
OR the best low lvl wizard armour and the cheapest!!
Blended Quartz Chain Shirt (non magical)
Base AC +4
Dex Bonus +4
Armour Check Penalty -2
Arcane Spell Failure 0%
GP 100+2000=2100gp !!!!!!!
AND
Blended Quartz Heavy Shield for an extra +2 AC bonus that can be enchanted and has no arcane spell failure!!
Firstly Tesselated (From the Arms and Equipment Guide) is not a special quality like Acidic for example. Special qulaities can be added together to construct customisable armour and weapons types, that is there purpose. For example a +1 Acidic Long Sword.
Acidic and all these types are listed under special abilites and then has a description and bonus cost. However, Tesselated Armour is under the SPECIFIC ARMOUR category not the special qualities. And specific armour or weapons are "preconstructed with EXACTLY the QUALITIES described here" There are not designed to be added to with addition special qualities they
are built to be balanced standalone creations, that is why they have abilites that are not on the standard special qualities list... If they were meant to be customisable there would be no SPECIFIC armour category only a longer list of special qualitys (that include abilities such as tesselated) that you can customise your armour and weapons with. But that isnt the case...
However, if you want LEGAL armour and dont mind the weight cos you have high Strength and use saving throw spells not touch attach then try these:
Full Plate +8 AC, +1 Dex, -6 ACP, 35% ASF (1,500gp)
OR
Chain Shirt +4 AC, +4 Dex, -2 ACP, 20% ASF (100gp)
with...
Blended Quartz (Arms and Equipment Guide) x2 Weight, -20% ASF. (2,000gp for light armour, 10,000gp for heavy)
Twilight: [Book of Exalted Deeds] cost +1; -10% arcane spell failure.
Nimbleness: [Magic of Faerun] cost +1; +2 max dex; -1 armor check penalty.
Thisledown padding: [Races of the Wild] +1 armor check penalty; -5% arcane spell failure.
==
For example:
+1 Blended Quartz Full Plate of Twilight and Nimbleness (need the initial +1 enhancement bonus as you cannot apply special qualities to a weapon or armour until you first start with the +1 enhancement (read DMG if you dont believe me) ) with Thisledown Padding
Base AC +8
Dex Bonus +3
Enhancement +1
Total +12
Armour Chek Penalty -6
Arcane Spell Failure 0%
GP 1500+10000+9000=20,500gp
OR the best low lvl wizard armour and the cheapest!!
Blended Quartz Chain Shirt (non magical)
Base AC +4
Dex Bonus +4
Armour Check Penalty -2
Arcane Spell Failure 0%
GP 100+2000=2100gp !!!!!!!
AND
Blended Quartz Heavy Shield for an extra +2 AC bonus that can be enchanted and has no arcane spell failure!!
RLA, you completely forgot the armor check penalty here, which will translate into an equal penalty to attack unless the wizard learns the appropriate armor proficiency feat...
I am fully aware of Blended Quartz, as one of my player (a cleric/wizard/mystic_theurge) has a Blended Quartz Armor and looking to add the Twilight feature on it, so as to bring the ASF to 5% (he still does not know about thisledown padding he he he). That character doesn't give a damn about armor check penalty (ACP) though, because the cleric class gives him the heavy armor proficiency for free.
However, a pure wizard would, hence this thread's focus on armor that will both yield a zero in ACP and ASF...
RLA, you completely forgot the armor check penalty here, which will translate into an equal penalty to attack unless the wizard learns the appropriate armor proficiency feat...
So just choose spells which do not use attack rolls... :P
DMG Pg 219: "The following specific suits of armor usually are preconstructed with exactly the qualities described here"
"Usually" is not "always." There is no specific exclusion that states that specific armors don't follow the same rules for construction and upgrade that all other armors do. Therefore, they follow the default rules.
Please don't cherry pick your quotes to support your position, and leave out the rest of the sentence. This not a religious right discussion on evolution ;)
"Usually" is not "always." There is no specific exclusion that states that specific armors don't follow the same rules for construction and upgrade that all other armors do. Therefore, they follow the default rules.
Actually we do have reason to believe that specific magic items don't follow the same rules for creation as other magic items. One example I can think of is that the mithral shirt only weighs 10 lbs., when it should weigh 12.5. Why? I don't know - but it definately didn't follow the rules.
Please don't cherry pick your quotes to support your position, and leave out the rest of the sentence. This not a religious right discussion on evolution ;)
Not that I care (and I can see that you're making a joke), but you might want to avoid comments like that.
Why not blended quartz mithral fullplate with thistledown padding? 0% ASF and its not even magical. The lightness of the mithral should counteract the weight of the blended quartz.
Because you can't make an item out of two special materials
Because you can't make an item out of two special materials
And because a blended quartz armor is insanely heavy and has a high ACP...
Also, if you want to multi-class at all (like fighter 1/wiz19 or some-such), then still spend the feat on still spell, and tank away.
obviously, if you are starting at high level then this armor is the best.
BUT don't forget to add silent and camouflage to your armor too, at about 600 gp (gives a blanket +3 MS and Hide, RAW, which is due to bad editing).
For example if you said Tesselated is +2 quality then the Full Plate +2 that it unravels would cost total rating squared + materials + master worked. Then you add a another +1 qualtiy and it would become 5 squared +extras. But if instead you added a +5 ability it would be 9 squared. So whether the special quality bonus is right for tesselated wouldnt matter for small changes but for larger ones the price increases vastly 9 squared for +2, vs 8 squared if you said +1....
In any regard the lack of clarity when it comes to the materials used when constructing these specific armours, plus where the gold and xp costs have been used (its ok for 1/day ray of enfeeblement that any monkey can work out, but what about an ability that hasnt been previously explained such as tesselated?) Sure your DM can try and work it out for himself and come up with where he THINKS the costs have come from and in some cases that would be a good thing to do (such as when adding qualities to a specific item like the adamantine dagger..doh..ovious) but its not always so easy to see.
I hope you can see the point im making. Becuase there are no specific formulaes to calculate and extrapolate from you cannot make a general statement about this issue. Each DM to his own when it comes to murky DnD waters...
Would like to hear back from you in case there are any official clarifications on this I havent read or if there are any formulaes that anyone has found successful when dealing with this issue. (Please Not just take the material price + MW + total bonuses squared + anything thats already got a formulae of table 7-33 p285 DMG). Thanks
Sure your DM can try and work it out for himself and come up with where he THINKS the costs have come from and in some cases that would be a good thing to do (such as when adding qualities to a specific item like the adamantine dagger..doh..ovious) but its not always so easy to see.
Wait, your saying that the magic item creation guidelines (note guidelines here) are unclear and that the DM has to jerry-rig rules as he goes to aducate the creation of non-standard items? I have NEVER heard THAT complaint before!!! ;)
Well, the way I always played it, you just count the enhancment bonus (in the case of tesselated armor this is +2), and build from there. I assume that all of the other bells and whistles for the armor are a single fixed price that is added to the armor (like energy resistance). In other words, the fuctions of the armor that include:
Being Medium armor
Having Reduced ASF, ACP
Having Increased Dex bonus range
The ability to don/doff the armor in one round
The ability to cast hypnotic pattern 1/day.
All of this stuff is subsumed under the cost of the item as a one time purchase that doesn't count as a "+" to the item, so you can just staple on as many other "+" abilities as you want.
So in the case of tesselated armor, adding light fortification (a +1 enhancment) onto it would cost the difference between a +2 and a +3 enhancement (5000 gp).
Well, the way I always played it, you just count the enhancement bonus (in the case of tessellated armor this is +2), and build from there. I assume that all of the other bells and whistles for the armor are a single fixed price that is added to the armor (like energy resistance). In other words, the functions of the armor that include:
...
Having Reduced ASF, ACP
Having Increased Dex bonus range
Except that a reduced ASF is listed elsewhere as a +1 enhancement and reduced ACP & increased max Dex bonus is also listed elsewhere as a +1 enhancement.
Furthermore, the ability to cast hypnotic pattern once/day has a pricing guideline that is almost universally followed which yields 4320 gp (spell lvl * caster lvl * 1800 for command word * 2 for slot-less / 5 for once per day)
The other two abilities, one category lighter & quick donning/removing, I would agree should be fixed costs.
Using this analysis, which I hope you would agree is consistent with how one might create armor that worked similarly, the cost I estimate:
+2 (enhancement) +1(twilight) +1(nimble)=4^2*1000
16,000+4320(hypnotic pattern 1/day)=20,320gp
20,320+1650(MW full plate)=21,970gp
That's about double the listed costs while ignoring faster donning/removing, the lighter weight category.
Alternatively, +2 mithral full plate casting hypnotic pattern 1/day, which only leaves out the quick don/remove ability, costs 18,820gp. I believe there is also a 'called' armor special ability that allows one to don (but not remove) the armor on command in Defenders of the Faith for a +1 market price adjustment. That would bring the total cost to 23,820 and would, effectively, work the same.
Ignoring the argument about whether mithral should stack with tessellated armor (a judgement call, at best), I can't help but think your cost estimation arises from wishful thinking (at best) more than any sort of critical analysis.
Ignoring the argument about whether mithral should stack with tessellated armor (a judgement call, at best), I can't help but think your cost estimation arises from wishful thinking (at best) more than any sort of critical analysis.
You are FAR FAR OFF on this charactarization of my motives. I am NOT motivated by wishful thinking! Really, how DARE you?!?
I am motivated by lazyness. ;)
Well, your point is a good one. However, what your analysis is showing is that Tesselated armor (like many spacific armors and weapons) is completely off the chart for what the item creation guidelines indicate. In the case of tesselated armor, the item is FAR underpriced by any anylsis, and this is what you have rightly demonstrated. You may consider this a problem, and you may be right.
ON the other hand, the rules are silent about how and if you can upgrade specific armors. There is no description about how this works at all. I (being the lazy guy I am), prefer to simply apply the item upgrading guidelines as-is and not worry about it too much. I do this as both a player and as a DM, so I consider myself CONSISTANTLY lazy, which I consider a virtue.
As a DM, I have not found this problem to be significantly game breaking. I have had players use this item (with upgrades) in my campaign, and I didnt' notice any significant power imballance compared to the other characters or the monsters in the game. So, being a lazy guy, I don't plan to change my approach. Frankly, by the time a player can afford this stuff, he has so many other wierd, cool special abilities, that this nice armor is no more powerful than anything else he is throwing around.
Blue Ice can be made into armor that has no ASF for Cold-subtyped spells. Cast spells with Snowcasting(which turns any spell into a cold-subtyped spell) and run around with some weak cold resistance(to negate Blue Ice's weak penalties) and a blue ice-chest for your snow(to cast with) and you can wear full plate with a tower shield.
Is there any concensous on how snowcasting interacts with eschew materials?
I am motivated by lazyness.
Forgive my mischaracterization. At least you're consistant. Lots of 3E stuff was miss-priced.
As for the whole snowcasting thing, if you don't add the snow, the spell doesn't get the cold descriptor. Having to spend a move action gathering "fresh snow from the surrounding environment" before casting a spell tends to be more than a little limiting. The spell doesn't rely on the snow, the cold descriptor does. The spell relies on other material components, for which eschew materials applies normally. At least that's my take, and I really can't think of a substantive argument otherwise.
Well, I think a twilight leather armor will be good enough for me anyway. This should have an ASF of 0%, right?
You may not use Twilight leather. Unless you can get at least +12 to your armor bonus, it is not optimized.
Add a Mithril Dastana for another +1 AC with no penalty. So with a Dex of 12, this Wiz would have a 16 AC at lvl 3. Not bad.
And the mithral dastana has already been mentioned.
its light ,Looks like normal garb , and is very rare(by the book) so their you go:D
"Wear this, and you'll be fine as long you neuter your spellcasting, or bump every single spell up a level. Who needs 9th level spells?"
Why aren't you guys carring a mithril light shield +1 Animated?
+3 shield that blocks for you leaving your hands free to cast.
No armor reduction and no penalty.
Thistledown-padded Mithral Breastplate +1 of Nimbleness and Twilight, with Armor Lubricant
AC +6; Max Dex +7; Armor Check Penalty -0; Arcane Spell Failure 0%; Weight 15 lbs
14,450 gp (plus the cost of armor lube)
+2 Twilight Mithral Shirt
AC +6; Max Dex +6; ACP 0; ASF 0%; Weight 10 lbs
10,100 gp
Some how I doubt most mages will have a 24 dex.
My daggerspell mage has a 24 dex....
So out of curiousity
Why aren't you guys carring a mithril light shield +1 Animated?
+3 shield that blocks for you leaving your hands free to cast.
No armor reduction and no penalty.
Because a +3 mithril buckler does the same thing and gives 2 more AC. (Heck, a +3 light shield actually leaves your hand free for casting. Heavy shields are the only ones that actually interfere with somatic components.)
So out of curiousity
Why aren't you guys carring a mithril light shield +1 Animated?
+3 shield that blocks for you leaving your hands free to cast.
No armor reduction and no penalty.
One reason is that abjurant champion makes shields obsolete. Getting a +9 shield bonus from the shield spell is kinda like having an animated +5 tower shield and being able to cast it as an extended swift spell with no adjustment is even sweeter.
I finally found the perfect wizard armor!!!
What, not all wizards are runesmiths? =)
Breastplate has an ACP of -4.
Mithril lowers the ACP by 3, making it -1.
Thistledown increases the ACP by 1, making it -2.
Nimbleness lowers the ACP by 2, making it 0 (at least it lowers it by 2 in the Magic Item Compendium, if it got powered up between the original printing and there, ignore this).
The armor lubricant is not needed, as it is already at ACP 0 without it.
Firstly Tesselated (From the Arms and Equipment Guide) is not a special quality like Acidic for example. Special qulaities can be added together to construct customisable armour and weapons types, that is there purpose. For example a +1 Acidic Long Sword.
Acidic and all these types are listed under special abilites and then has a description and bonus cost. However, Tesselated Armour is under the SPECIFIC ARMOUR category not the special qualities. And specific armour or weapons are "preconstructed with EXACTLY the QUALITIES described here" There are not designed to be added to with addition special qualities they
are built to be balanced standalone creations, that is why they have abilites that are not on the standard special qualities list... If they were meant to be customisable there would be no SPECIFIC armour category only a longer list of special qualitys (that include abilities such as tesselated) that you can customise your armour and weapons with. But that isnt the case...
First, you misquoted the paragraph leaving out a crucial word: "USUALLY".
Second, Magic Item Compendium makes it clear you can absolutely add special abilities to specific armor and weapons.
Second, Magic Item Compendium makes it clear you can absolutely add special abilities to specific armor and weapons.
That's cool ... does it explicitly say you only have to count the actual enhancement bonus and pre-existing special abilities with equivalent enhancement bonuses towards the item's equivalent enhancement bonus? (ie. you can just assume all the other abilities the item has are fix priced.)
ON the other hand, the rules are silent about how and if you can upgrade specific armors. There is no description about how this works at all. I (being the lazy guy I am), prefer to simply apply the item upgrading guidelines as-is and not worry about it too much. I do this as both a player and as a DM, so I consider myself CONSISTANTLY lazy, which I consider a virtue.
Well, the DMG did always say "ADDING NEW ABILITIES: A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions."
The Magic Item Compendium clarifies this, and lists the formula (under the Relics section, but stated to be applicable for all specific items).
(MIC Pg. 222) Furthermore, a character can improve an existing relic just as he could any other magic item. An axe of ancestral virtue has an effective enhancement bonus of +2 (+1 plus another +1 for the keen property), so improving it to a +2 keen adamantine dwarven waraxe would cost 10,000 gp, just as it would for any other weapon.
Clearly, specific items (this one is listed under Specific Weapons in the MIC) have their non-effective-enhancement-bonus portion treated as a flat cost.
And from the Specific Armor and Shields section of the MIC (pg. 16):
The following suits of armor and shields are usually constructed with exactly the properties described here. You can increase the enhancement bonus of these armors and shields or add more special properties, just as you would for any other item.
And from the Specific Weapons section (MIC Pg. 46):
The following weapons are usually constructed with the properties described here. You can increase the enhancement bonus of these weapons or add more special properties just as you would for any other item.
And on the section on Improving Magic Items (MIC pg. 233):
You can add new magical abilities to a magic item with virtually no restrictions. The cost and prerequisites to do this are the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal longsword minus the cost of a +1 longsword (93,315 - 2,313 = 96,000 gp). The character improving the magic item must meet the same prerequisites as of he were creating the item from scratch.
So, to sum up, for specific armors or shields or weapons, you treat the effective-enhancement-bonus portion as you always did as if the item were not a specific armor or shield or weapon, and the non-effective-enhancement-bonus portion as a flat cost (just like all the other flat-cost items the DMG and MIC list).
More steady ac = mithral tumblers breatplate of nimbleness and twilight with thistledown padding.
You cant really beat tumblers breastplate when it comes to armor optimization.
Just get a level of runesmith, and ignore ASF completely.
What book/page number?
What book/page number?
Races of Stone p118.
You got to be a dwarf, but that's not much of a penalty, as they're the best race for wizards anyway.
Races of Stone p118.
You got to be a dwarf, but that's not much of a penalty, as they're the best race for wizards anyway.
they are? did not know that.... :-)
who likes to play a dwarven wizard anyway? i could never do that to my wizard...
in my eyes gray elves are better.
allowing lesser planetouched there are much better wizards than dwarves...
they are? did not know that.... :-)
who likes to play a dwarven wizard anyway? i could never do that to my wizard...
in my eyes gray elves are better.
allowing lesser planetouched there are much better wizards than dwarves...
Deep Dwarves are probably the best race for wizards, IMO, unless you really need the feat for being human. A dwarven wizard has the same hp as an elven cleric, better saves, darkvision, etc.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dwarf.htm#deepDwarf
And they have no ASF because they can be runesmiths.
Wouldn't a pure wizard have to burn 3 feats though just to get heavy armor proficiency to qualify for runesmith?
Depends on the level you want to start at: wait until 10th level, take a level of Dragonslayer and then you qualify only burning 2 feats (Dodge and Iron Will) and 2 ranks in a cross-class skill. There may be other PrCs which grant heavy armour with a cheaper entry cost, but I don't know them.
I hate to throw salt in your game, but.....
Blue Ice can be made into armor that has no ASF for Cold-subtyped spells. Cast spells with Snowcasting(which turns any spell into a cold-subtyped spell) and run around with some weak cold resistance(to negate Blue Ice's weak penalties) and a blue ice-chest for your snow(to cast with) and you can wear full plate with a tower shield.
Toss on Cold Focus and Greater Cold Focus for a +2 DC to all your spells, and you have a character made out of weapon-grade awesome.
So we take eschew materials to remove the whole 'dragging the ice chest around' thing and then we have no spell failure for our snowcasting spells without the inconvenience.
It is only treated as being light for the purposes of movement and the like. It is still considered medium armor from a proficiency stand point thus 2 feats.
Actually, not any more. It got changed in the magic item compendium, mithril armour is now one grade lower for proficiency too.
And it's now only available on predefined types of armour. So no more mithril tesselated, sectioned or mechanus gear. Boo!
Actually, not any more. It got changed in the magic item compendium, mithril armour is now one grade lower for proficiency too.
And it's now only available on predefined types of armour. So no more mithril tesselated, sectioned or mechanus gear. Boo!
Unless I missed something in the back, the table at the front of the armor chapter was just examples of the most common types of mithril armor.
I finally found the perfect wizard armor!!!
....
For a grand total of...
AC +6; Max Dex +7; Armor Check Penalty -0; Arcane Spell Failure 0%
How much does THAT cost?
Unless I missed something in the back, the table at the front of the armor chapter was just examples of the most common types of mithril armor.
Really? Oh, sweet, I was ****** i had to lose that stuff.
Also, has there been any new "armor tech" in the books published April?
In essence, are there any new armors types/combos in the last 8-9 months that trump the ones discussed throughout this long thread?
i too will echo what helicopter said, I'd like to hear if there is any new developments in state-of-the-art armor for acanists.
Thus I request a price/weight sensitive suggestion for my wife. Any suggestions are welcome, and no, I dont know how much we should spend on Armor at 6th level, looking for help on that too.
Thanks,if you can help.
Twilight mithril chainshirt possibly?
This is only about 5000 gp. It's not much better than just casting mage armor, though. A Lesser Rod of Extend + Pearl of Power 1 is 4000 gp, would let you keep Mage Armor up all day for the cost of a single 1st level spell slot, and can come in handy for other things when you need it, also.
If you have access to a cleric who can cast a decent Magic Vestment for you, of course the armor is better. But that's using a 3rd level slot, which isn't cheap at 6th level...
This is only about 5000 gp. It's not much better than just casting mage armor, though. A Lesser Rod of Extend + Pearl of Power 1 is 4000 gp, would let you keep Mage Armor up all day for the cost of a single 1st level spell slot, and can come in handy for other things when you need it, also.
If you have access to a cleric who can cast a decent Magic Vestment for you, of course the armor is better. But that's using a 3rd level slot, which isn't cheap at 6th level...
Good point there, but she's playing a mix of Wizard and Rogue, we don't actually know what's her caster level.
Good point there, but she's playing a mix of Wizard and Rogue, we don't actually know what's her caster level.
Oops, didnt think it would matter.Wiz3/Rogue3(she wanted Collegiate Wizard).
Dont know if she will be comfy w/out armor any way, but lets examine the options.
That's Twilight and Nimbleness from MIC, Mithral from DMG, Githcraft from DMG II.
So you have a +6 AC armor with a max dex bonus of +6, with a asf of 0% and a A C penalty of 0, in a +3-equivalent armor.
I hate to throw salt in your game, but.....
Blue Ice can be made into armor that has no ASF for Cold-subtyped spells. Cast spells with Snowcasting(which turns any spell into a cold-subtyped spell) and run around with some weak cold resistance(to negate Blue Ice's weak penalties) and a blue ice-chest for your snow(to cast with) and you can wear full plate with a tower shield.
Toss on Cold Focus and Greater Cold Focus for a +2 DC to all your spells, and you have a character made out of weapon-grade awesome.
IIRC you'll need some built in cold resistance or must burn a feat to be able to wear blue ice armor without taking damage.:bounce:
I prefer a +1 Twilight Githcraft Mithral Breastplate of Nimbleness
That's Twilight and Nimbleness from MIC, Mithral from DMG, Githcraft from DMG II.
So you have a +6 AC armor with a max dex bonus of +6, with a asf of 0% and a A C penalty of 0, in a +3-equivalent armor.
Very nice-she isnt warming to the Mage armor, but this sounds good to her.Even at 9000+! She isnt as cheap as I am...
Very nice-she isnt warming to the Mage armor, but this sounds good to her.Even at 9000+! She isnt as cheap as I am...
Technically speaking, a +2 twilight mithril shirt ends up being the exact same thing (+6/+6 Dex armor) and is only one off of greater armor crystals instead of 2. It should be around 10,100 rather than 13,600 as well.
If the DM allows it, there is also the opportunity for chahar-aina and dastana to boost the total further as well. Crafted in mithril, those add no arcane spell failure.
Technically speaking, a +2 twilight mithril shirt ends up being the exact same thing (+6/+6 Dex armor) and is only one off of greater armor crystals instead of 2. It should be around 10,100 rather than 13,600 as well.
If the DM allows it, there is also the opportunity for chahar-aina and dastana to boost the total further as well. Crafted in mithril, those add no arcane spell failure.
I think feycrafting chahar-aina and dastana would be a bit cheaper, wouldn't it?
I think feycrafting chahar-aina and dastana would be a bit cheaper, wouldn't it?
Most likely, particularly on the chahar-aina if the "other" category is used.
isnt there a mordenkainens dispelling spell that totaly dispells magic items?
Mordenkainen's disjunction. (Or, in the SRD, mage's disjunction.) All magic items in the area of effect have to make a Will save (using their own or their wielder's Will save bonus, whichever is higher) or be separated into their component parts, effectively destroying them.
It's a ninth level spell, so in theory most bad guys won't have access to it. (Though when I inherited a game from a guy who was notorious for handing out overpowered magic weapons, the first enemy I put in the party's way was an iron golem with a cursed scroll of Mordy's disjunction in an attached beltpouch -- heh, heh, heh.)
If you're worried about this, however, the easy solution is to get hold of a minor but well-known artifact -- most enemy wizards probably won't take the 1% chance per caster level of actually destroying the artifact, which has two effects in itself:
- DC 25 Will save or permanently lose all spellcasting abilities
- 95% chance of attracting the attention of a powerful being with an interest in or connection to the artifact
(This actually happened in a campaign I played in -- en route to the climactic battle, the party had to navigate what was effectively a three-dimensional minefield of disjunctions. My paladin, who'd picked up an evil dragon-bane artifact in the previous adventure, charged right in and tripped off the mines until the artifact failed the save; the BBEG didn't fail his Will save (awwww), but the destruction of the artifact did attract the attention of Bahamut, who sent his avatar to assist us in the final battle (yay!).)
--
Pauper
But back to topic :P
If you are a wiz3/rog3 and have 13.000gp starting gold, you won't spent 10k in armour, there is much more fitting equipment I would say. Think of some more nifty stuff ;)
Totally.Broken. Now I know Im in CharOp, so I shouldnt even ask, but ...is it wrong of me to exploit this? I think not, especially since we almost lost a couple of party members the first session!
If I chicken out,or not, you help here has been great. Thank you!
+1 Dastana: Soulfire
+1 Cahar-aina: Heavy Fortification
+ 5 Mithril Chain Shirt of Twilight: Whatever.
So you get a set of armor that is effectively +15 (2,250,000 gp )for the price of a +5 and two +6 pieces, (97,000 gp) for a savings of about 2,153,000 gp ! Best armor setup out there, period, for any character except a monk or Druid.
Don't forget that Dastana and Cahar-aina can be enchanted seperately from normal armor, saving a vast sum when you're wanting to have a lot of enchantments on your armor. Enhancement bonuses to AC overlap, but special properties don't.
+1 Dastana: Soulfire
+1 Cahar-aina: Heavy Fortification
+ 5 Mithril Chain Shirt of Twilight: Whatever.
So you get a set of armor that is effectively +15 (2,250,000 gp )for the price of a +5 and two +6 pieces, (97,000 gp) for a savings of about 2,153,000 gp ! Best armor setup out there, period, for any character except a monk or Druid.
You also get more slots for armor augmenting crystals, now that I think about it. Dastana or chahar-aina made from special materials could also be interesting.
Twilight mithril chainshirt possibly?
definitely, twighlight mithral chainshirt
+5 armor class 0 armor check penalty no arcane failure, light armor 5100 gold pieces (1100 +4000 for +1 enchantment and twighlight (+1 equivalent) best armor for sorcerers and wizards, but you need dmg and phb2 minimum) 10%-10%=0%
This is only about 5000 gp. It's not much better than just casting mage armor, though. A Lesser Rod of Extend + Pearl of Power 1 is 4000 gp, would let you keep Mage Armor up all day for the cost of a single 1st level spell slot, and can come in handy for other things when you need it, also.
If you have access to a cleric who can cast a decent Magic Vestment for you, of course the armor is better. But that's using a 3rd level slot, which isn't cheap at 6th level...
i personally would buy the twightlight mithral shirt, it is not worth a spell slot to cast mage armor, awand of extend only doubles the time, assuming 3rd level rogue 3rd level wizard, the ac with the extension is only 6 hours, pearl of power would make it only 12 hours, the twighlight mithral shirt, you are protected at all times except the bath (predestigitation means you wont need to bathe) people love to harm the wizards. more defense against coup de gras is always good. I would also recomend a rapier and a shortbow.
definitely, twighlight mithral chainshirt
+5 armor class 0 armor check penalty no arcane failure, light armor 5100 gold pieces (1100 +4000 for +1 enchantment and twighlight (+1 equivalent) best armor for sorcerers and wizards, but you need dmg and phb2 minimum) 10%-10%=0%
At later levels adding in the Soulfire enchantment kicks butt.
i personally would buy the twightlight mithral shirt, it is not worth a spell slot to cast mage armor, awand of extend only doubles the time, assuming 3rd level rogue 3rd level wizard, the ac with the extension is only 6 hours, pearl of power would make it only 12 hours,
He had said 6th character level originally, but not given the caster level. I'd assumed she at least had a CL of 6 (Practiced Spellcaster), which would let her keep Mage Armor up all day using a single spell slot using what I listed, for 4000 gold, as opposed to the 5000 gp price of the mithril chain shirt. She'd also have an unused charge from the Lesser Rod of Extend Spell per day.
Main Piece: Thistledown-padded Feycraft Mithril Shirt (+5 AC, +6 Dex, 0% ASC, -1 ACP)
plus
Masterwork Feycraft Light Wooden Shield (+1 AC)
Masterwork Feycraft Chahar-Aina (+1 AC)
Masterwork Feycraft Dastana (+1 AC)
Total Cost: 3150 (+8 AC, +6 Max dex, 0% ASC, -1 ACP, 27 lbs.)
This is cheaper and more effective than Mage Armor, but comes with a minor penalty on attack rolls for pure casters. As an added bonus, none of it is magical so dispelling (even the evil MDJ) won't effect anything.
Now I guess there could be a debate about whether or not the Chara-aina and Dastana stack with each other.
By the way, the Dastana also appears in Arms and Equipment, so atleast that piece of equipment cannot be considered setting specific.
Either way, just the base armor is better than Mage armor by 1 point, but you take that extra point as a hit to your attack rolls.
It gives improved stats over mithril chainmail. As long as you are allowed to improve it, add the usual twilight, nimbleness, feycraft (or githcraft) for an armor that is:
+5 Base, +9 max dex, 0 ASF, 0 ACP
Chain Shirt: ASF 20%, ACP -2
Thistledown-padded Chain Shirt: ASF 15%, ACP -3
Thistledown-padded Mithral Chain Shirt: ASF 5%, ACP 0
Fey/Githcraft Thistledown-padded Mithral Chain Shirt: ASF 0%, ACP 0
Technically the Mithril shirt has the following stats: +4 armor, +6 dex,10% asf, 0 everything else.
All this is is applying mithril to a chainshirt, so technically you can apply the thistledown padding first.
or atleast that's how I see it.
So your left with a +4 arm, +6 dex with nothing else.
Sticking with mithril armor you can get
Mithril Chain Shirt, Fey crafted, Reinforced armor, light weight, spell casters armor, segmented
0% ASF, 0 Armor check penalty, weight 10lbs , AC 5, Hardness 14, Max Dex 7, +1 bluff with words
The whole thing is non-magical and costs 2,000gp plus the 500-700gp for each of the other three opitions (about 3,900gp, will revise when I get home). This avoids any thistledown stacking problems. These mods are for suits of armor only, unfortunately cannot be used with shields. You can still add Nimble later as needed.
Twilight, thistledown, Nimble, and the very expensive Half weight (Underdark book) can also be applied with the above to Full Plate
AC bonus 9+1 Enchancement, Max Dex +6, Armor Penalty -3, Weight 10lbs, 0% Arcane spell failure, Hardness 15, armor type light, +1 bluff
This is good for bards, beguilers, and warlocks, but price at 51,500gp (halfweight costs +3 but makes any armor light).
Other useful things to add to the armor if you have weight problems is Easy Traveling from the MIC. It is +1,500gp and allows you to carry a medium load as if it was light. Don't forget to add in the cheap augment crystal that gives you +2 AC verse ranged at less, +5 at standard, and +5 and deflect arrow at greater.
I will edit or repost this when I look up the mag.
While Dragon material usually has good suppliments for predicaments such as these, my method is a tad more acceptable if you will. All you need is the DMG, DMG 2, and the RotW, all of which are usually allowed in the campaign.(or atleast the first and last ones)
Don't have it, don't use it, but since there are no restrictions there is no hurt listing it. You solution is certainly less book intensive and would be more exceptable in a higher number of campaigns. It is from Dragon Magazine 358. The changing prices are because different classes of armor cost more.
Mithril Chain 1,100gp
Fey-crafted 500gp (-5% Arcane Spell Failure, -10% weight, -1 Hardness)
Caster armor 400gp (-5% Arcane Spell Failure)
Segmented 200gp (+1 Max Dex)
Reinforced 800gp (+1 AC, +10% Weight)
Lightweight 200gp (-20% Weight)
Armor 3,200gp AC 5, Max Dex 7, Spell Failure 0%, Weight 10 lbs, 0 Check Penality, armor light
Mithril Breastplate 4,200gp
Fey-crafted 500gp (-5% Arcane Spell Failure, -10% weight, -1 Hardness)
Caster armor 800gp (-5% Arcane Spell Failure)
Segmented 200gp (+1 Max Dex)
Reinforced 1,000gp (+1 AC, +10% Weight)
Lightweight 200gp (-20% Weight)
+1 Twilight, Nimble 9,000gp
Armor 15,900 gp, AC 6 (+1), Max Dex 8, Spell Failure 0%, Weight 12 lbs, 0 Check Penality, Armor Light
Mithril Full Plate 11,500gp
Fey-crafted 500gp (-5% Arcane Spell Failure, -10% weight, -1 Hardness)
Caster armor 1,000gp (-5% Arcane Spell Failure)
Segmented 300gp (+1 Max Dex)
Reinforced 1,200gp (+1 AC, +10% Weight)
Lightweight 500gp (-20% Weight)
Thistle Down 250gp (-5% Arcane Spell Failure, +1 Armor Penalty)
+1 Twilight, Nimble 9,000gp
Armor 24,250gp, AC 9 (+1), Max Dex 6, Spell Failure 0%, Weight 20 lbs, -3 Check Penalty, Armor Medium
These are starting with a minimum check penalty. You can certainly add more enchantments on to the light armor, or add the thistle down to the medium armor in place of twilight.
Again stack on Easy Traveling from the MIC to allow you to carry a medium load as if it was light. Half-weight from the Underdark book can be added to the full plate to make it light and drop the weight to 10.0 lbs.
Most of the dragon enchantments are for suits of armor only, so sheilds and the oriental adventure peices are out.
Main Piece: Thistledown-padded Feycraft Mithril Shirt (+5 AC, +6 Dex, 0% ASC, -1 ACP)
Chain shirts have a base AC of 4, not 5. Is something in here increasing it by 1? Or were you including a +1 enhancement bonus?
Edit: Never mind. I saw your later post with the correction.