| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1oprickNov 20, 2008 19:57:18 | (an intellectual exercise) Id like to see what the great minds on this board can come up with, hopefully at a variety of levels, rather than the 20 level builds we so often see. who knows, some of it may even be applicable in real games. The starting point is this: at first level, assuming enough gold and a good UMD check, the artificer can scribe and cast scroll of animate dead: which the clerics wont get until level 5. At this point, he is limited to 2HD of undead, if we agree that infusion levels = chaster levels as its stated in MoE. Similarly, you could add a scroll of Desecrate for the HP bonus and a bump up to 4HD. With a suitable 4HD creature, preferably one which can wear armor and wield manufactured weapons, you can get quite a bit out of this, especially considering your buffing abilities as an artificer. There are a noteworthy amount of items which improve or create undead. Some of these, however, do not place the undead directly under your control. for intsance:
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| #2rasmus_wagnerNov 21, 2008 6:07:01 | -At 2nd level, you could make a scroll of lesser planar ally, and prepare a spot for the summoned creature to get killed by a big rock or something. if you pick a Bralani (MM1) you could even steal its +1 holy scimitar and +1 holy composite bow. sell or retain essence these, and you have paid for your scrolls and preparations... perhaps even made money/xp Artificers can make items two caster levels ahead of themselves, so this trick won't be viable until level 5 - but I like the way you think! ![]() |
| #3oprickNov 21, 2008 6:37:59 | You're right. I posted that pretty late last night, and must have mixed up casterlevel and spelllevel |
| #4ChristopherGrovesNov 21, 2008 6:56:03 | The "item" the undead is "haunting" would have HP and hardness and could be repaired like any other item. Your problem is your "limit of controlling undead" I think. I mean, you're not commanding/rebuking but that's something you should consider. |
| #5oprickDec 21, 2008 20:20:32 | just to add another though: you could pick up a spellstitched familiar (two feats) for extra undead control also, the ruling on whether or not death by level loss results in a wight by default is unclear. if we agree (or our DM agrees) that this happens in all cases, you would simply have to fell drain someone to death, control the wight, and go about producing an army of wights. additionally, the fact that artificers are treated as being 2 caster levels ahead results in a greater undead control limit a priori |
| #6psorowmanDec 21, 2008 22:49:03 | With most of my artificer builds, I like throwing in 3 levels of swashbuckler for so he can do some direct damage. That got me thinking: Say you have this artificer/swashbuckler, that's kinda like a pirate that can make his own ship, right? What if he can animate dead? Can he then animate a soar whale, and then build a righteous pirate ship inside the skeleton? Oh yeah he can. (I know, its been done before, but its still something I'd love to try). Something just occured to me. Use a Blastificer build (Twinspell, Maximize spell, empower spell), but add in fell animate. Make a wand of scorching rays, blast things to death, and then they animate under your control. |
| #7malkavonDec 22, 2008 0:44:23 | Artificers, interestingly enough, are one of the few classes that can really take advantage of rebuking. First, grab a phylactery of undead turning from the DMG and emulate turn undead via UMD. Since your cleric level for the purposes of turning is equal to your UMD check - 20, and the phylactery "allows you to [turn] as though your class level were 4 higher", you can easily get rebuking as a Cleric in the 50s or 60s without a lot of optimization. While you might not get the base 3 + Cha turning attempts, you can easily make use of nightsticks and other items which grant bonus turning attempts to power your turning. Artificers can also get access to wild shape via the druid's vestment, also from the DMG. First, you emulate wild shape via UMD, thus setting your effective druid level (same as with turn undead above), then put on the vest. Since you are "a character with the wild shape ability" as far as the vest is concerned, you gain an additional wild shape use (giving you one total, since 1 + 0 = 1). Since, like nightsticks, the vest does not confer an actual bonus but simply increases the number of uses you have, you could even make a bunch of slotless vests and get as many uses/day as you needed. That's right, Artificers can use other peoples class features as well or better than those classes themselves. |
| #8silenced_shoutDec 23, 2008 8:52:18 | Just a point of clarification......Since your cleric level for the purposes of turning is equal to your UMD check - 20, and the phylactery "allows you to [turn] as though your class level were 4 higher", you can easily get rebuking as a Cleric in the 50s or 60s without a lot of optimization. "50s or 60s?" Like in, turn like a level 50 cleric?!? ![]() Were you speaking in hyperbole, or is this actually possible? Keep in mind, we ARE on the CharOp boards. Otherwise, great thread! :D Kinda wish I had an idea to contribute... I bet you could do something nifty with fell drain. |
| #9psorowmanDec 23, 2008 10:54:38 | If what you're saying is correct, items will be doing most the work, so the optimization part will be focused on how you want to play the artificer. I can see two ways: Either you concentrate on being a blastificer that tacks on fell animate to his wand death dealing (anything killed by the spell rises under your control), or you go the buffer route, and proceed to buff the heck out of your minions' weapons and armor (try and raise undead warforged) |
| #10malkavonDec 24, 2008 10:59:52 | Just a point of clarification... Since your Cleric level for the purposes of turning is equal to your UMD check -20 (+4 from the item itself not included), it's ridiculously easy to get an insanely high turning level. 23 ranks + 30 competence bonus + 10 Cha = effective 43rd-level cleric, not counting what you roll on the turning check. With a decent roll (easily maximized) and the phylactery of undead turning itself, that becomes an effective 51st-level cleric. Let's go for some more optimization, though. Assuming either Marshal 1/Artificer 19 or Artificer 20 w/ a Marshal cohort: 23 ranks + 23 (item familiar) + 13 Cha + 5 (admiral's bicorne) + 30 (custom competence bonus item) + 13 (motivate cha aura) + 1 (luckstone + 15 (custom item of divine insight) + 3 (skill focus (UMD) + 2 (magical aptitude) + 10 (take 10) = 128 - 20 = 108. Now you can command undead with up to 54 HD. That's just off the top of my head, and doesn't include any items that boost your turning level, including the phylactery itself. As to the concept working, the phylactery of undead turning specifically grants the ability to turn undead. It's terrible, terrible writing on the part of the authors, since I'm sure they didn't intend for it to work like that. But the RAW clearly state that the item allows you to turn undead. You don't treat your cleric level for the purposes of turning as 4 higher (which is how most items like this work), you actually turn as a cleric of 4 levels greater than whatever your cleric level is, and your cleric level in turn is determined by your UMD check. Remember also that commanding undead only ever checks your cleric level when you command them. So you can command some super-big undead bad guy, tell it to always obey your instructions, and then take the amulet off. Now it's loyal and you don't have to wear the phylactery to keep it loyal. The druid's vestment is a bit different. It gives you an additional use of wild shape, and with UMD you can emulate being a 5th-level (or higher) druid, and thus qualify to activate the item. Logically, since you now have a use of wild shape and an effective druid level for the purposes of wild shape, you can in fact wild shape as a druid of your UMD check - 20 level. Again, I am certain that this isn't what the authors intended you to be able to do, but the authors really need a better editor/rules lawyer. Use Magic Device is a skill which is entirely based on Cartoon Physics - i.e., so long as you don't acknowledge that you can't actually do what you're doing, reality won't notice. Also, remember that any character with UMD can make use of this. Artificers just win harder when using UMD, and at everything else in general. |
| #11torynDec 28, 2008 22:19:48 | This is cool. Great job!! |