Artificer uses cantrip to bestow -1 lvl @ first level - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Artificer uses cantrip to bestow -1 lvl @ first level

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
borg285
Aug 21, 2008 14:20:58 If a first level artificer uses spell storing item to store (Daze, Sonic Slap,Caltrops,Cure Minor Wounds,Detect Magic,Guidance,Launch Item,Repair Minor Damage,Seeker's Chant, OR Touch of Fatigue) all of which are 0th lvl spells, and which pass the test of "no greater than one-half your artificer level", and store that cantrip into an item, thus making it a spell completion item, then use METAMAGIC SCROLL and apply a metamagic feat to it, like reach or split or empower or Fell Drain (all +2 metamagic) on that item? If you have a UMD bonus of at least +10 there is no chance of failure for spell storing and suffering a mishap. Plus this did not cost him any XP: "XPCost: Your caster level X the spell level" = 1 X 0 = 0!!

A cool side effect of fell drain: if a creature has as many negative levels as HD it dies (no save). A level 1 creature is usually only 1 hd. If it's struck with a cantrip that sucessfully deals damage (like Sonic Snap which has no saving throw for the sonic damage of 1) fell drain kicks in and gives it -1 lvl (from a frikkin cantrip). Now it has as many negative levels as HD and dies. Powerful cantrip.
Also please expound on what "1 hour/level or until discharged" means. Is it whichever is greater or whichever is least, like it will vanish in an hour, or will it disappear the next day, or will it stay until I use it next week?
Under the spell level test can He use spell storing item to store a 1st lvl spell or must he be 2nd lvl to do that?
This gives the artificer huge versatility, being able to cast any cantrip. and for a mere 2 XP do any first lvl spell.
#2
phaedrusxy
Aug 21, 2008 15:50:02 0 level spells are usually treated as 1/2 level for calculations, but I don't remember if this is for all calculations, or only specific ones. I don't think it makes this trick impossible, though, does it? It just means it would cost a bit of XP.

Also, beware that creatures killed from negative levels rise as wights by default, which will probably kick your level 1 butt. :D
#3
borg285
Aug 21, 2008 16:05:52 This brings up an interesting question: how does fell drain interact with fell animate? I know you wouldn't get a wight at your command? Would his skeletal/zombie body be at your command yet his spirit is transformed into a wight seeking your death?
What is the interaction between Power work pain and Fell Drain? Power word pain damages the creature each round for a long time. Would fell drain suck 1 level each time the target felt the tremor of the migraine (1d6 damage for 4d4 rounds)?
#4
phaedrusxy
Aug 21, 2008 17:17:41 The second thing is a contentious issue. Most would say an individual can only lose one level from a particular casting of a spell. I can't remember the arguments behind that, but it is probably the most balanced option. Otherwise, the feat becomes too powerful when applied to something like Flame Blade.

As to how the two feats would interact, I'm not sure. Wights are corporeal creatures, though, not incorporeal. So if he becomes a wight, his body is not available to become a zombie.

The text about becoming a wight if killed by negative levels says this:
A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain. Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight.

So... wight is the generic case. Fell Animate is more specific, and might over-ride it. The rules don't really specify. I think it would be fun as a DM to have them first animate as a zombie, and then turn into a wight "on the next night", though. ;)

I'd forgotten that they don't rise till the next night, though. So I guess you'd be safe killing things like this, as long as you don't stick around long enough for them to come back. :P
#5
borg285
Aug 21, 2008 17:35:19 What about the duration for a spell stored item. Does it last until I discharge it or does it fade after the first hour?

Where did everybody go? I'm used to seeing tons of people here. Did they all move to the 4e board?
#6
phaedrusxy
Aug 21, 2008 17:46:35
What about the duration for a spell stored item. Does it last until I discharge it or does it fade after the first hour?

I know next to nothing about artificers.
Where did everybody go? I'm used to seeing tons of people here. Did they all move to the 4e board?

I'm sure some did. Some went to www.brilliantgameologists.com. Some probably went to other places.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 borg285 Aug 21, 2008 14:20:58	If a first level artificer uses spell storing item to store (Daze, Sonic Slap,Caltrops,Cure Minor Wounds,Detect Magic,Guidance,Launch Item,Repair Minor Damage,Seeker's Chant, OR Touch of Fatigue) all of which are 0th lvl spells, and which pass the test of "no greater than one-half your artificer level", and store that cantrip into an item, thus making it a spell completion item, then use METAMAGIC SCROLL and apply a metamagic feat to it, like reach or split or empower or Fell Drain (all +2 metamagic) on that item? If you have a UMD bonus of at least +10 there is no chance of failure for spell storing and suffering a mishap. Plus this did not cost him any XP: "XPCost: Your caster level X the spell level" = 1 X 0 = 0!! A cool side effect of fell drain: if a creature has as many negative levels as HD it dies (no save). A level 1 creature is usually only 1 hd. If it's struck with a cantrip that sucessfully deals damage (like Sonic Snap which has no saving throw for the sonic damage of 1) fell drain kicks in and gives it -1 lvl (from a frikkin cantrip). Now it has as many negative levels as HD and dies. Powerful cantrip. Also please expound on what "1 hour/level or until discharged" means. Is it whichever is greater or whichever is least, like it will vanish in an hour, or will it disappear the next day, or will it stay until I use it next week? Under the spell level test can He use spell storing item to store a 1st lvl spell or must he be 2nd lvl to do that? This gives the artificer huge versatility, being able to cast any cantrip. and for a mere 2 XP do any first lvl spell.
#2 phaedrusxy Aug 21, 2008 15:50:02	0 level spells are usually treated as 1/2 level for calculations, but I don't remember if this is for all calculations, or only specific ones. I don't think it makes this trick impossible, though, does it? It just means it would cost a bit of XP. Also, beware that creatures killed from negative levels rise as wights by default, which will probably kick your level 1 butt. :D
#3 borg285 Aug 21, 2008 16:05:52	This brings up an interesting question: how does fell drain interact with fell animate? I know you wouldn't get a wight at your command? Would his skeletal/zombie body be at your command yet his spirit is transformed into a wight seeking your death? What is the interaction between Power work pain and Fell Drain? Power word pain damages the creature each round for a long time. Would fell drain suck 1 level each time the target felt the tremor of the migraine (1d6 damage for 4d4 rounds)?
#4 phaedrusxy Aug 21, 2008 17:17:41	The second thing is a contentious issue. Most would say an individual can only lose one level from a particular casting of a spell. I can't remember the arguments behind that, but it is probably the most balanced option. Otherwise, the feat becomes too powerful when applied to something like Flame Blade. As to how the two feats would interact, I'm not sure. Wights are corporeal creatures, though, not incorporeal. So if he becomes a wight, his body is not available to become a zombie. The text about becoming a wight if killed by negative levels says this: A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain. Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight. So... wight is the generic case. Fell Animate is more specific, and might over-ride it. The rules don't really specify. I think it would be fun as a DM to have them first animate as a zombie, and then turn into a wight "on the next night", though. ;) I'd forgotten that they don't rise till the next night, though. So I guess you'd be safe killing things like this, as long as you don't stick around long enough for them to come back. :P
#5 borg285 Aug 21, 2008 17:35:19	What about the duration for a spell stored item. Does it last until I discharge it or does it fade after the first hour? Where did everybody go? I'm used to seeing tons of people here. Did they all move to the 4e board?
#6 phaedrusxy Aug 21, 2008 17:46:35	What about the duration for a spell stored item. Does it last until I discharge it or does it fade after the first hour? I know next to nothing about artificers. Where did everybody go? I'm used to seeing tons of people here. Did they all move to the 4e board? I'm sure some did. Some went to www.brilliantgameologists.com. Some probably went to other places.