Assassin's Creed; living by the creed. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Assassin's Creed; living by the creed.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kaszman
Jun 24, 2009 19:39:28 just seen a few of the videos for assassin's creed two, which looks a lot better than the first and gives me more features to emulate in creating our new protagonist Eizo. (it was a slow day and work, and this was the challenge my workmates/dnd group set me)
(I will be referring to both Altair and Eizo as Eizo...as I assume Eizo has all the same abilities and more, due to the game being a sequel.)

The abilities.

Eizo has Death Attack, and even the ability to make it subtle. when he makes a stealth assassination in game, sometime he can walk away before people realise its him. I've never used death attack, but I assume if you were using a dagger, and you did it right and role played it, you could use Death Attack in this manner with the 3 round prep time. maybe using sleight of hand/bluff check to better conceal it. even in Assassin's creed sometimes the death attack isn't stealthy.

Free Running, can be easily emulated in a lot of ways. skill moves like acrobatic backstab/wall running/wall leaping/extreme leap/corner perch. also, high tumble/jump/climb skill ranks.

in the first game, Riposte was pretty much the only way to fight. (I'm not a huge fan of the feat though)

pick pocketing was a part of the first game, so sleight of hand.

Eizo seems to have very slight grappling abilties, such as pulling a guard off a belltower or into the water....might be worth looking at... he also seems to be a swimmer. so a few ranks in that too.

disarming, seems to be a major point in the second game, improved disarm.

I'd say sneak attack seems to blend perfectly, Eizo seems to be a dirty fighter, which is fair he's always outnumbered, and he seems to like to catch his opponents off balance.

Now thats the flavour...onto the optimization, putting it all together so it doesn't suck.

my first thought when I saw the demo was "rogue/thief acrobat/assassin"

Rogue seems the best place to start.

Rogue 2/Swashbuckler 3

that gets you insightful strike for damage, weapon finesse (preq to riposte) some sneak attack dice.

Assassin, I'm really not sure what to dip for here. but death attack is vital to the build and one 1 level in...lose a BAB, gain a +1d6 sneak attack.. also use 6th level feat to get daring outlaw to add swashbuckler and rogue sneak attack dice.

Thief Acrobat, fits the character perfectly...but..such a fluff class...not really good for anything BUT movement...which you could probably replace with skill tricks...skill points is NOT something we're short on.

Invisable blade...typical full 5 levels? pretty likely, its an amazing prc. gaining the free action feints, also I'm not sure on this, I know you can charge/pounce -> full attack. can you charge/pounce -> free action feint -> full attack denying opponents dex? very tasty if it works.

Guild thief is always popular but losing a BAB, gaining maybe 2 sneak attack dice for 3 levels. tempting...not perfect but tempting.

Nightsong Enforcer is also nice for a 1 or 4 level dip...maybe even 7. for this character, 1 level dip would be fine.

also, can fill a couple dead levels with fighter maybe....if the feats are needed. maybe even a monk level. I know I ignored swordsage....the tome of battle is a bit...unused ever since my drunken unarmed swordsage just owned a room of people using a keg of wine.

the Goals of this.
decent sneak attack...10d6? maybe 11. BAB minimum 16, pref 17/18.

Rogue 3 (2d6, 2bab)
Swashbuckler 3 (3bab)
Assassin ?
Invisible Blade 5 (3d6 5bab)
Nightsong enforcer 1 (1d6 1bab)

so level 12, not counting undecided assassin's levels. 6d6, 11bab
not a bad start.

one option is assassin 5 arcane trickster 3. its a bit messy what with the mage hand requirement...but it could be managed. giving a total BAB of 17, and 10d6 SA. and decent assassin spell level.
instead of arcane trickster, monk 1 would grant wis to AC (or int to AC with a feat) and flurry. then fighter 1 would give a bonus feat and 1 bab. then would need something that gave 1 bab and 1 sneak attack dice, would basically sacrifice assassin spells for an extra feat, bit more AC and flurry....I prefer keeping the assassin spells and arcane trickster option.

I know there are other classes that give death attack, the assassin's does seem the best though.

The Telflammar Shadowlord is an option aswell....but it would be 6 levels to even get the death attack, and there are some unusual entry requirements. its doable...but not simple.
#2
kaszman
Jun 24, 2009 19:40:01 FEATS
Requirements;
Invisable blade Feats: Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (dagger,
kukri, or punching dagger).
Nightsong Enforcer Feats: Improved Initiative
For the classes flavourism Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm
maybe's Riposte, Improved Grapple, Craven, Two weapon fighting, daring outlaw

total 11.

well, we're human.

Level 1; two feats.
Level 3; 1 feat.
Level 6; 1 feat.
Level 9; 1 feat.
Level 12; 1 feat.
Level 15; 1 feat.
Level 18; 1 feat.
total; 8.

hmmm, cut the slack, riposte...not a huge fan...and grapple...not nessecery also don't have unarmed fighting.. craven would be nice....lets see if I can cram it in

Rogue---|far shot, improved initiative|---------Sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding
Rogue ---------------------------------------Evasion
Swashbuckler - |weapon focus|---------------Weapon Finesse
Swashbuckler--------------------------------Grace +1
Swashbuckler--------------------------------Insightful Strike
Assassin-|point blank shot|-------------------Sneak attack +1d6, death attack, poison use, spells
Rogue---------------------------------------Sneak attack +2d6, trap sense +1
Nightsong Enforcer---------------------------Sneak attack +1d6, teamwork (hear/see allies)
Invisable Blade - |two weapon fighting|-------Dagger sneak attack +1d6, unfettered defense
Invisable Blade-------------------------------Bleeding wound
Invisable Blade ------------------------------Dagger sneak attack +2d6, uncanny feint (move action)
Invisable Blade --|combat expertise|----------Feint mastery
Invisable Blade------------------------------Dagger sneak attack +3d6, uncanny feint (free action)
Assassin------------------------------------+1 save against poison, uncanny dodge
Assassin - |improved disarm|-----------------Sneak attack +2d6
Assassin------------------------------------ +2 save against poison
Assassin------------------------------------Improved uncanny dodge, sneak attack +3d6
Arcane Trickster - |daring outlaw|-----------Ranged legerdemain 1/day +1 level of existing class (arcane spells)
Arcane Trickster----------------------------Sneak attack +1d6 +1 level of existing class (arcane spells)
Arcane Trickster----------------------------Impromptu sneak attack 1/day +1 level of existing class (arcane spells)

saves would be base Fort; 6 Ref; 16 Will; 6 - ouch :P

well it all fits...but its messy as hell. missing craven at the moment. a flaw could fix that...

Skills and Tricks

Requirements
Arcane Trickster
Skills: Decipher Script 7 ranks, Disable Device 7 ranks, Escape
Artist 7 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks.
Assassin
Skills: Disguise 4 ranks,
Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8
ranks.
Invisible Blade
Skills: Bluff 8 ranks, Sense Motive 6 ranks.
Nightsong Enforcer
Skills: Hide 10 ranks, Move Silently 10 ranks.

those are all cake for someone with rogue levels.

Skills

Tumble
Jump
Balance
Climb
Sleight of Hand
Hide
Move Silently
Swim
Disable Device
Bluff
Disguise
Escape Artist
Gather Information
Search
Spot
Listen

all the slightly useful ones.

Nice Looking Skill Tricks.
from complete scoundrel

Acrobatic Backstab; tumble 12
Back on Your Feet; tumble 12
Conceal Spellcasting; Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1, Sleight of Hand 5
Corner Perch; Climb 8
Easy Escape; escape artist 8
Escape Attack; escape artist 8
Extreme Leap; jump 5
Group Fake-Out; Bluff 8
Leaping Climber; Climb 5, jump 5
Listen to This; 5 ranks
Mosquito’s Bite; Sleight of hand 12
Nimble Charge; balance 5
Nimble Stand; tumble 8
Second Impression; bluff 5, disguise 5
Speedy Ascent; Climb 5
Spot the Weak Point; spot 12
Timely Misdirection; Bluff 8
Twisted Charge; Balance 5, tumble 5
Walk the Walls; climb 12, tumble 5
Wall Jumper; climb 5, jump 5.

lots of options. you can have a max of 10 skill tricks, max level halved, rounded up. so you could wait til level 10 and then get one every level. but you can only learn 1 per level. costs 2 skill points each...perfect for rogues.

the ones I view as the best for the character are bolded...I picked 11...hard to narrow one out from there. two skill tricks cannot be combined as far as I recall, so that might help weed one more out.

I'm done for now. I'd love to hear any ideas from more experianced optimizers than me, I'm obviously pretty average at this :P
any feedback, constructive criticism is more than welcome. normal criticism is fine...but I can't do much with it :P
#3
-ktkenshinx-
Jun 24, 2009 20:20:45 Nice ideas so far. I look forward to seeing how it turns out.

For a better alternative to Death Attack, which is not a particularly strong ability by any standard, I suggest the Profession (Execution) rule as presented in the Book of Vile Darkness (P. 39).

Conduct a grapple with your opponent and get them in a pin. Once they are pinned, simply deploy your execution weapon (the book mentions there are thousands of possibilities, so whatever works best flavorwise is viable), make a DC 18 execution check, and watch the opponent die.
Depicting this graphically, you would come up behind your opponent and start a grapple, using your first attack action to get the grapple, and your second to establish the pin (BAB +6 required). So you have the target's head and neck in your grasps. Silde your blade out from under your forearm and make the skill check. With success, slit their throat for the kill.

While the BoVD does not have specific rules for this weapon, you could extrapolate its stats based off of the ones given and the general Execution guidelines. For instance, a Headsman's Axe is quite similar to this device.

-ktkenshinx-
#4
kaszman
Jun 24, 2009 21:16:07 its a brilliant book and I thank you for pointing the execution method out to me.

I think for the build the assassin class works a little better. seeing as its not a strength based build, he's a medium character and he doesn't have improved grapple.

it could be tweaked to a more grapple type character, but I'm probably better off using the death attack. its a great idea though, definately going to remember profession executioner....even the fails are harsh...definately a good idea for a grappler with a dark past....or grim sense of purpose.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kaszman Jun 24, 2009 19:39:28	just seen a few of the videos for assassin's creed two, which looks a lot better than the first and gives me more features to emulate in creating our new protagonist Eizo. (it was a slow day and work, and this was the challenge my workmates/dnd group set me) (I will be referring to both Altair and Eizo as Eizo...as I assume Eizo has all the same abilities and more, due to the game being a sequel.) The abilities. Eizo has Death Attack, and even the ability to make it subtle. when he makes a stealth assassination in game, sometime he can walk away before people realise its him. I've never used death attack, but I assume if you were using a dagger, and you did it right and role played it, you could use Death Attack in this manner with the 3 round prep time. maybe using sleight of hand/bluff check to better conceal it. even in Assassin's creed sometimes the death attack isn't stealthy. Free Running, can be easily emulated in a lot of ways. skill moves like acrobatic backstab/wall running/wall leaping/extreme leap/corner perch. also, high tumble/jump/climb skill ranks. in the first game, Riposte was pretty much the only way to fight. (I'm not a huge fan of the feat though) pick pocketing was a part of the first game, so sleight of hand. Eizo seems to have very slight grappling abilties, such as pulling a guard off a belltower or into the water....might be worth looking at... he also seems to be a swimmer. so a few ranks in that too. disarming, seems to be a major point in the second game, improved disarm. I'd say sneak attack seems to blend perfectly, Eizo seems to be a dirty fighter, which is fair he's always outnumbered, and he seems to like to catch his opponents off balance. Now thats the flavour...onto the optimization, putting it all together so it doesn't suck. my first thought when I saw the demo was "rogue/thief acrobat/assassin" Rogue seems the best place to start. Rogue 2/Swashbuckler 3 that gets you insightful strike for damage, weapon finesse (preq to riposte) some sneak attack dice. Assassin, I'm really not sure what to dip for here. but death attack is vital to the build and one 1 level in...lose a BAB, gain a +1d6 sneak attack.. also use 6th level feat to get daring outlaw to add swashbuckler and rogue sneak attack dice. Thief Acrobat, fits the character perfectly...but..such a fluff class...not really good for anything BUT movement...which you could probably replace with skill tricks...skill points is NOT something we're short on. Invisable blade...typical full 5 levels? pretty likely, its an amazing prc. gaining the free action feints, also I'm not sure on this, I know you can charge/pounce -> full attack. can you charge/pounce -> free action feint -> full attack denying opponents dex? very tasty if it works. Guild thief is always popular but losing a BAB, gaining maybe 2 sneak attack dice for 3 levels. tempting...not perfect but tempting. Nightsong Enforcer is also nice for a 1 or 4 level dip...maybe even 7. for this character, 1 level dip would be fine. also, can fill a couple dead levels with fighter maybe....if the feats are needed. maybe even a monk level. I know I ignored swordsage....the tome of battle is a bit...unused ever since my drunken unarmed swordsage just owned a room of people using a keg of wine. the Goals of this. decent sneak attack...10d6? maybe 11. BAB minimum 16, pref 17/18. Rogue 3 (2d6, 2bab) Swashbuckler 3 (3bab) Assassin ? Invisible Blade 5 (3d6 5bab) Nightsong enforcer 1 (1d6 1bab) so level 12, not counting undecided assassin's levels. 6d6, 11bab not a bad start. one option is assassin 5 arcane trickster 3. its a bit messy what with the mage hand requirement...but it could be managed. giving a total BAB of 17, and 10d6 SA. and decent assassin spell level. instead of arcane trickster, monk 1 would grant wis to AC (or int to AC with a feat) and flurry. then fighter 1 would give a bonus feat and 1 bab. then would need something that gave 1 bab and 1 sneak attack dice, would basically sacrifice assassin spells for an extra feat, bit more AC and flurry....I prefer keeping the assassin spells and arcane trickster option. I know there are other classes that give death attack, the assassin's does seem the best though. The Telflammar Shadowlord is an option aswell....but it would be 6 levels to even get the death attack, and there are some unusual entry requirements. its doable...but not simple.
#2 kaszman Jun 24, 2009 19:40:01	FEATS Requirements; Invisable blade Feats: Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (dagger, kukri, or punching dagger). Nightsong Enforcer Feats: Improved Initiative For the classes flavourism Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm maybe's Riposte, Improved Grapple, Craven, Two weapon fighting, daring outlaw total 11. well, we're human. Level 1; two feats. Level 3; 1 feat. Level 6; 1 feat. Level 9; 1 feat. Level 12; 1 feat. Level 15; 1 feat. Level 18; 1 feat. total; 8. hmmm, cut the slack, riposte...not a huge fan...and grapple...not nessecery also don't have unarmed fighting.. craven would be nice....lets see if I can cram it in Rogue---\|far shot, improved initiative\|---------Sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding Rogue ---------------------------------------Evasion Swashbuckler - \|weapon focus\|---------------Weapon Finesse Swashbuckler--------------------------------Grace +1 Swashbuckler--------------------------------Insightful Strike Assassin-\|point blank shot\|-------------------Sneak attack +1d6, death attack, poison use, spells Rogue---------------------------------------Sneak attack +2d6, trap sense +1 Nightsong Enforcer---------------------------Sneak attack +1d6, teamwork (hear/see allies) Invisable Blade - \|two weapon fighting\|-------Dagger sneak attack +1d6, unfettered defense Invisable Blade-------------------------------Bleeding wound Invisable Blade ------------------------------Dagger sneak attack +2d6, uncanny feint (move action) Invisable Blade --\|combat expertise\|----------Feint mastery Invisable Blade------------------------------Dagger sneak attack +3d6, uncanny feint (free action) Assassin------------------------------------+1 save against poison, uncanny dodge Assassin - \|improved disarm\|-----------------Sneak attack +2d6 Assassin------------------------------------ +2 save against poison Assassin------------------------------------Improved uncanny dodge, sneak attack +3d6 Arcane Trickster - \|daring outlaw\|-----------Ranged legerdemain 1/day +1 level of existing class (arcane spells) Arcane Trickster----------------------------Sneak attack +1d6 +1 level of existing class (arcane spells) Arcane Trickster----------------------------Impromptu sneak attack 1/day +1 level of existing class (arcane spells) saves would be base Fort; 6 Ref; 16 Will; 6 - ouch :P well it all fits...but its messy as hell. missing craven at the moment. a flaw could fix that... Skills and Tricks Requirements Arcane Trickster Skills: Decipher Script 7 ranks, Disable Device 7 ranks, Escape Artist 7 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks. Assassin Skills: Disguise 4 ranks, Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks. Invisible Blade Skills: Bluff 8 ranks, Sense Motive 6 ranks. Nightsong Enforcer Skills: Hide 10 ranks, Move Silently 10 ranks. those are all cake for someone with rogue levels. Skills Tumble Jump Balance Climb Sleight of Hand Hide Move Silently Swim Disable Device Bluff Disguise Escape Artist Gather Information Search Spot Listen all the slightly useful ones. Nice Looking Skill Tricks. from complete scoundrel Acrobatic Backstab; tumble 12 Back on Your Feet; tumble 12 Conceal Spellcasting; Concentration 1, Spellcraft 1, Sleight of Hand 5 Corner Perch; Climb 8 Easy Escape; escape artist 8 Escape Attack; escape artist 8 Extreme Leap; jump 5 Group Fake-Out; Bluff 8 Leaping Climber; Climb 5, jump 5 Listen to This; 5 ranks Mosquito’s Bite; Sleight of hand 12 Nimble Charge; balance 5 Nimble Stand; tumble 8 Second Impression; bluff 5, disguise 5 Speedy Ascent; Climb 5 Spot the Weak Point; spot 12 Timely Misdirection; Bluff 8 Twisted Charge; Balance 5, tumble 5 Walk the Walls; climb 12, tumble 5 Wall Jumper; climb 5, jump 5. lots of options. you can have a max of 10 skill tricks, max level halved, rounded up. so you could wait til level 10 and then get one every level. but you can only learn 1 per level. costs 2 skill points each...perfect for rogues. the ones I view as the best for the character are bolded...I picked 11...hard to narrow one out from there. two skill tricks cannot be combined as far as I recall, so that might help weed one more out. I'm done for now. I'd love to hear any ideas from more experianced optimizers than me, I'm obviously pretty average at this :P any feedback, constructive criticism is more than welcome. normal criticism is fine...but I can't do much with it :P
#3 -ktkenshinx- Jun 24, 2009 20:20:45	Nice ideas so far. I look forward to seeing how it turns out. For a better alternative to Death Attack, which is not a particularly strong ability by any standard, I suggest the Profession (Execution) rule as presented in the Book of Vile Darkness (P. 39). Conduct a grapple with your opponent and get them in a pin. Once they are pinned, simply deploy your execution weapon (the book mentions there are thousands of possibilities, so whatever works best flavorwise is viable), make a DC 18 execution check, and watch the opponent die. Depicting this graphically, you would come up behind your opponent and start a grapple, using your first attack action to get the grapple, and your second to establish the pin (BAB +6 required). So you have the target's head and neck in your grasps. Silde your blade out from under your forearm and make the skill check. With success, slit their throat for the kill. While the BoVD does not have specific rules for this weapon, you could extrapolate its stats based off of the ones given and the general Execution guidelines. For instance, a Headsman's Axe is quite similar to this device. -ktkenshinx-
#4 kaszman Jun 24, 2009 21:16:07	its a brilliant book and I thank you for pointing the execution method out to me. I think for the build the assassin class works a little better. seeing as its not a strength based build, he's a medium character and he doesn't have improved grapple. it could be tweaked to a more grapple type character, but I'm probably better off using the death attack. its a great idea though, definately going to remember profession executioner....even the fails are harsh...definately a good idea for a grappler with a dark past....or grim sense of purpose.