- The class requires casting, yet does almost nothing to promote its use.
- Melee characters interested in taking it are forced to bear with a low HD, no BAB level.
It dawned on me that there could be a way to utilize, nay optimize, this template disguised as a prestige class. And so I present for your analysis and critique: Bahamut's Axe!
(Note: The formatting I'll be using draws heavily from the Weekly Optimization Showcase. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, after all.)
Books Used: PHB, DMG, DMG II, PHB II, ToB, DM, RoS, RotD.
Race: Gold Dwarf (from the DMG), though any variety of dwarf will work in a pinch. However, I chose this race because it penalizes dexterity rather than charisma, which is far more important to the build.
Alignment: Any non-lawful. This is mandatory, though beyond that it's up to you. I chose neutral good while working on this.
Abilities: 16/12/16/10/10/12 using 32 point buy, before racial modifiers. Put all stat increases into constitution as you level up. Tomes and other items for constitution and strength are a priority.
Mundane Gear: Since we have proficiency with it, let's go ahead and use a dwarven waraxe and a heavy shield early on. Once we pick up Power Attack, switch to whatever two-handed weapon you like (I chose greataxe to stick with the theme).
Magical Gear: Nothing unusual for a melee character. Constitution and Strength items, magical weapons and armor, so on and so forth. If you're strapped for cash (for whatever reason), you can save some money by relying on your wings rather than items. However, a Badge of Valor would certainly come in handy.
Build Stub: Crusader 6/Bard 2/Dragon Disciple 10/Deepwarden 2
1 - Crusader 1 [Endurance] (Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5) (Crusader's Strike, Charging Minotaur, Stone Bones, Leading the Attack) (Martial Spirit)
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Ugh, I hate prerequisite feats as much as anybody else. Endurance aside, crusader is always a strong start.
Since you've only get 8 effective bard levels in the build, it's only worth a +1, and it doesn't advance number of uses per day. It also seems particularly silly at that level, since its first boost doesn't actually kick in for another seventeen levels.
The swift action element seems like it should be nice - but that means you can't cast inspirational boost, use any swift action boosts, switch stances, etc.
If that +1 to attack and damage two encounters per day (or +1d6 damage with DFI) is really all that important to you, why not wait until you're actually near where it impacts you to take it?
Also, have you seen this? It's the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge focused on Dragon Disciple. 23 builds in all, and I believe 22 of them took all 10 levels of DD. None of them are necessarily the direction I would most likely go, but there's some interesting stuff there regardless.
A while back I got to thinking "Hey, why does nobody use Dragon Disciple?" As I smoked a tobacco pipe over this question, I began to understand why this prestige class was so maligned. I was able to come to the following conclusion:
- The class requires casting, yet does almost nothing to promote its use.
- Melee characters interested in taking it are forced to bear with a low HD, no BAB level.
It dawned on me that there could be a way to utilize, nay optimize, this template disguised as a prestige class. And so I present for your analysis and critique: Bahamut's Axe!Show
(Note: The formatting I'll be using draws heavily from the Weekly Optimization Showcase. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, after all.)
Books Used: PHB, DMG, DMG II, PHB II, ToB, DM, RoS, RotD.
Race: Gold Dwarf (from the DMG), though any variety of dwarf will work in a pinch. However, I chose this race because it penalizes dexterity rather than charisma, which is far more important to the build.
Alignment: Any non-lawful. This is mandatory, though beyond that it's up to you. I chose neutral good while working on this.
Abilities: 16/12/16/10/10/12 using 32 point buy, before racial modifiers. Put all stat increases into constitution as you level up. Tomes and other items for constitution and strength are a priority.
Mundane Gear: Since we have proficiency with it, let's go ahead and use a dwarven waraxe and a heavy shield early on. Once we pick up Power Attack, switch to whatever two-handed weapon you like (I chose greataxe to stick with the theme).
Magical Gear: Nothing unusual for a melee character. Constitution and Strength items, magical weapons and armor, so on and so forth. If you're strapped for cash (for whatever reason), you can save some money by relying on your wings rather than items. However, a Badge of Valor would certainly come in handy.
Build Stub: Crusader 6/Bard 2/Dragon Disciple 10/Deepwarden 2
1 - Crusader 1 [Endurance] (Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5) (Crusader's Strike, Charging Minotaur, Stone Bones, Leading the Attack) (Martial Spirit)ShowUgh, I hate prerequisite feats as much as anybody else. Endurance aside, crusader is always a strong start.
As for the low Inspiration bonus, a Badge of Valor and a Vest of Courage would help to shore up that weakness, neither item being very expensive IIRC.
StevenO, perhaps I should have been more clear. I meant that a melee character is forced to take at least one level of a spontaneous caster class, which traditionally have both bad BAB and bad HD. I was in no way saying that Dragon Disciple had bad HD. Quite the contrary, actually.
StevenO, perhaps I should have been more clear. I meant that a melee character is forced to take at least one level of a spontaneous caster class, which traditionally have both bad BAB and bad HD. I was in no way saying that Dragon Disciple had bad HD. Quite the contrary, actually.
You probably should have although entry to DD does NOT require giving up any BAB and I don't consider a d8 HD to be "low" even if it isn't "high."
Duskblade and Hexblade can both get a character spontenous arcane spellcasting WITHOUT the loss of any BAB. Although getting 'better' spellcasting may mean giving up a point of BAB the Bard's d6 isn't the lowest HD and as I mentioned a BattleSorcerer gets a d8 which can easily be considered average. If you believe the only way to meet the DD's spellcasting requirements is with a level or two (or more) of Sorcerer then you are right but that definitely in NOT an optimized way to build a Dragon Disciple.
Monsterous Disciple:
Requirements: +3 LA or greater, ability to spontaneously cast arcane spells, Knowledge skill 8 ranks.
HD size: d12; skill points: 2 per HD list as for Dragon Disciple
1st level: +1 HD; BAB +1; Fort +2, Will +2; +1 spell slot of highest level you can cast (as DragonD)
2nd level: +1 HD; BAB +2; Fort +3, Will +3; +1 spell slot
3rd level: +1 HD; BAB +3; Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +3; +1 spell slot
4th level: +1 HD; BAB +4; Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +4; +1 spell slot
5th level: +2 HD; BAB +5; Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +5; Blindsense 30', +1 spell slot
6th level: +2 HD; BAB +6; Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +6; Wings (as DragonD), +1 spell slot
7th level: +2 HD; BAB +7; Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +7; Blindsense 60', +1 spell slot.
Now maybe that looks like a TERRIBLE class but it is just the Dragon Disciple with the Half-Dragon removed. It requires a little bit of creativity to add the three extra HD back in (and those would count towards general feats and ability upgrades!) but I don't think it is poor. The nice thing about this is that it could be used for any number of monsters with LA. I could even lower the LA requirement although that would mean lowering the maximum level of the class that could be taken.
You can also take only four levels of Dragon Disciple, which give +4 Str, Claws and Bite, +2 NA, a Will boost and three lame spell slots (breath weapon is also lame) for only 1 point of BAB and whatever other class features you might be getting. A 5th level offers Blindsight (but you lose another point of BAB).
Yeah, it's not the powerhouse we might want it to be, but the casting thing seems to make people judge it by the wrong criteria entirely.
Bahamut's Axe, on the other hand, puts his caster class to use both in and out of combat.
Absolutely, Fred. The casting requirement is a put-off, and even outside of core, the level of a casting class on a primary melee character can be more of a hindrance than a help. Even taking Steven's example of using duskblade, the level falls flat. You want to wear the best armor you can, but the duskblade's armored casting only allows light armor at level 1, IIRC.
Bahamut's Axe, on the other hand, puts his caster class to use both in and out of combat.
This is why you look at spells with no Somantic components and prefereably ones without material components. True Strike is GREAT at it only has a verbal component which means a WIZARD 1 could be strapped into Full Plate he is not proficient with and still cast it without any chance of failure due to armor. There are other spells without an (S) component which natural avoid ASF.
PS. Sorry if I haven't commented on your build. It does seem to meet the warrior/Bard entry concept but I'm not all that familiar with the ToB classes. You also start out with a PB I consider "better" and close to earning an effective +1 LA when compared to "normal" character.
Why Con over Str, btw?
But that's just a guess.
Yeah, Green Star Adept is another (it's surprisingly like DD, in fact), though it has its own problems too (like losing your Con at L10...)
The general thing to do with Green Star Adept is to simply not take the 10th level, though I do recall the discussion about changing it to a living construct instead.
DD boosts Str more than Con, Deepwarden uses Con to AC, and the breath weapon save is Con-based. But that's just a guess.
That's true, but your breath weapon is 1/day and I wonder whether the Str isn't worth more.
The general thing to do with Green Star Adept is to simply not take the 10th level, though I do recall the discussion about changing it to a living construct instead.
Yep, both should work. I would probably only take a few (four?) levels of GSA then go into something like Abjurant Champion (though the two don't synergise well at all).
I would probably only take a few (four?) levels of GSA then go into something like Abjurant Champion (though the two don't synergise well at all).
It's a good break point, though I could see myself hanging in there until getting the immunities of null metabolism (breathing, eating, sleeping, poison, fatigue, and exhaustion) at 7th level.
That's true, but your breath weapon is 1/day and I wonder whether the Str isn't worth more.
Actually, I was considering dropping Extra Granted Maneuver in exchange for Dragon Breath, which would upgrade the breath weapon to every 1d4 rounds. Given that the majority of the maneuvers known are low level until Bahamut's Axe hits level 18, I feel this would be an improvement.
Maybe I should tackle the Arcane Archer next
