Thanks
BB
P.S.
I thought that this place is the best place to post this question, thou I'm probably wrong.
Take arcane disciple, choosing the spell domain - this gives you the 6th level spell 'Anyspell, Greater' (SpC) that you can cast once per day. Use this spell to prepare a 5th level spell from a restricted school.
Now, specialization says you never learn(s) to cast spells from the prohibited schools, but the wording of Anyspell may allow you to skirt around that. It's important to note that Anyspell says it uses your domain slot, so you can read that as 'the casting of my domain spell for that level', or as 'requiring a domain slot'. The former interpretation works, latter doesn't.
Very flaky, but it's possible
Alternatively, play a Diviner. You ban one school for specializing, one school to focus, and one school for Incantatrix or Red Wizard. If you only want one class or the other, you're fine. If you want both, get 5th level spells before taking the second PrC.
Also, if he waits that long for incantatrix it's not worth taking
Upon becoming a Red Wizard, a character increases his devotion to his wizard school of specialization. In exchange for this, the Red Wizard must sacrifice study in one or more schools. The Red Wizard must choose an additional prohibited school or schools using the rules in the Player’s Handbook. He can never again learn spells from those prohibited schools. He cannot choose the same prohibited schools he chose asa 1st-level wizard. He can still use the prohibited spells he knew prior to becoming a Red Wizard, including using items that are activated by spell completion or spell trigger
I believe Incantatrix doesn't have a similar passage, but it's quite likely they intended it to work in the same way.
And you don't have to wait to be able to cast 5th level spells to become a Red wizard/Incantatrix. You can scribe higher level spells into your spellbook from scrolls, other Wizards, etc. even before you can actually cast them.
can't really check all the rules now (at work) but I was under the impression that when sacrificing another school you lose all ability to cast what you could.
Also, if he waits that long for incantatrix it's not worth taking
No... you don't lose the ability to cast the spells you know. Only how to learn new spells.
But you may have a point as to waiting to the 9th level to get into Incatat. Any thoughts, guys?
I believe Incantatrix doesn't have a similar passage, but it's quite likely they intended it to work in the same way.
And you don't have to wait to be able to cast 5th level spells to become a Red wizard/Incantatrix. You can scribe higher level spells into your spellbook from scrolls, other Wizards, etc. even before you can actually cast them.
Ummm. I'm not sure. I haven't found anything that counters that. But I'm sure that I red somewhere that if you try to learn something above your level then you might get hurt. Dunno where.
I like the anyspell idea
no one has commented on it yet... it's debatable I know but still pretty cool.Ability to cast 7th-level arcane spells, knowledge of 5th-level or higher spells from at least five schools.
That's some tricky wording right there. It doesn't say "ability to cast 5th level or higher spells from at least five schools," it says, "knowledge of 5th-level or higher spells..." So what constitutes "knowledge of"? Does simply knowing about them count? If so, theoretically speaking at least, a simple Spellcraft check should fulfill that requirement. If it's interpreted as "written into your spellbook", then it's a simple matter of scribing those spells into your spellbook before taking a level of Incantatrix. I"m not sure if there's a ruling about it from Custserv or the Sage, but the errata doesn't mention it at all.
Arguing from a theoretical standpoint, I would say "knowledge of" should be interpreted as having copied the spells using a successful spellcraft check. Granted, you can't cast those spells, but who says you can't have them in your spellbook? Who says you can't know what they do? I would say that counts.
Arguing from a theoretical standpoint, I would say "knowledge of" should be interpreted as having copied the spells using a successful spellcraft check. Granted, you can't cast those spells, but who says you can't have them in your spellbook? Who says you can't know what they do? I would say that counts.
Then what about a sorcerer?
We know that a sorcerer can cast spells he doesn't know from wands or rods. So... does he knows them? If he have 5 types of rods does he qualify?
It is more problematic then it seems.
2 schools for specialisation
1 from Focused Specilisation
1 from Red Wizard
1 from Incantatrix
---
5 banned schools is quite a lot. Any way of banning any more? Ideally, all we'd have left would be Divination :D.
That being said, one can be quite happy with just Conjuration and Transmutation schools. or maybe Trans + Illu (shadowcraft) + Divination?
well, as has been said, you still know the spells you learned BEFORE you went Red Wizard. It doesn't ban an extra school the same way focusing does, it just prevents you from learning new spells of that school.
"Knowledge of..." is still the tricky wording. What constitutes knowledge as far as fulfilling the prerequisites of the prestige class are concerned?
Once again, since this is the theoretical optimization boards, it should be easily possible to gain access to Archmage while being a Focused Specialist/Incantatrix. All that is required is knowledge of the spells in question, i.e. you've studied them and/or written them into your spellbook. The specialist option says nothing about being able to write those spells into your spellbook, it just says that you can't cast them by any means (including scrolls and wands).
"Knowledge of..." is still the tricky wording. What constitutes knowledge as far as fulfilling the prerequisites of the prestige class are concerned?
knowledge of 5th-level or higher spells from at least five schools.
I read this as "has in spellbook and can cast. As a non-diviner, you only have access to 6 schools out of nine. We can still actually afford to lose one school. Focused Specialist loses one more, so now we need to get to level 9 before taking levels in Red Wizard. I think you could get FS at lv4, so...
Wiz 3/FS 6/RW 4/ACM.
At level 9, you scribe two spells from two schools to your spellbook at 9th level. Then you just buy three scrolls from your non-prohibited schools, scribe them to your spellbook and you're good to go.
Universal
Not a school, yadda yadda...
Also, I don't think that focus specialize (or simple specialize, for that matter) can be abtain in any level except first. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
So, you still have to take:
Focus Spectz 9/something/ACM to get 5th level spells from five schools which, in it's turn, will delay the abilities you get from the PrC's therefore making the above mentioned example a rather weak one.
...and so we go back to the beginning...
I read this as "has in spellbook and can cast.
I'd argue that's an incorrect interpretation. If it was simply the ability to cast, then why is it worded differently than the previous requirement "Ability to cast 7th level arcane spells"? If they were meant to be the same thing, then shouldn't the wording be the same? "Knowledge of" is such tricky, ambiguous wording...
I've started a similar thread on the CO boards, since I think this is more of a practical matter than a theoretical one.
Yeah, I knew that I'm about to choose poorly as to where to put it.
Thanks
Do you, by chance, mean this thread?
Yeah, I knew that I'm about to choose poorly as to where to put it.
Thanks
That would be the one, and it seems that Carnivore has answered the question from the practical side. Still, it doesn't answer the more theoretical question regarding the wording of the PrC's entry requirements. What constitutes "knowledge of" from a theoretical perspective?
Hm, so you can ban:
2 schools for specialisation
1 from Focused Specilisation
1 from Red Wizard
1 from Incantatrix
---
5 banned schools is quite a lot. Any way of banning any more? Ideally, all we'd have left would be Divination :D.
The best I can do is if the Changeling Wizard 1 substitution level counts as being a specialist wizard and can therefor have Focused Specialist applied to it. That gets rid of one more school, but you're forced to specialize in Illusion and Transmutation (not "or").
The best I can do is if the Changeling Wizard 1 substitution level counts as being a specialist wizard and can therefor have Focused Specialist applied to it. That gets rid of one more school, but you're forced to specialize in Illusion and Transmutation (not "or").
Hmm... How would Changling's dual spec interact with Focussed Specialist? Can you get it twice, losing 5 schools and 2 normal spells slist/spell level and gaining 4 extra spell slots (2 each)?
Hmm... How would Changling's dual spec interact with Focussed Specialist? Can you get it twice, losing 5 schools and 2 normal spells slist/spell level and gaining 4 extra spell slots (2 each)?
Technically, it doesn't work with it, since the Changeling Specialist class feature replaces the normal Wizard's ability to specialize in the first place.
However, all Focused Specialist does is give you extra specialist spell slots, so I'm guessing if it's ruled that a Changeling specialist can benefit from it, you only lose one more school and only get the normal number of extra spell slots (each of which can be filled with either Illusion or Transmuation spells).
It has some wonky text.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (history) 2 ranks, specialist wizard
level 1st.
but
Special: You can take this feat multiple times, each time
choosing a new spell from
any of your prohibited
schools.