Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zendu Mar 20, 2008 23:52:27	Note: This is under construction. Help me out with links, builds, strategies and anything you can think of that would prove useful.
#2 zendu Mar 20, 2008 23:53:13	Abilities Show Strength Strength is the end-all be all stat for most Barbarians. It can help mitigate your loses with power attack, as well as increase your damage. Dexterity Limited to medium armor, some Dexterity is nice, however most of your skills lie in melee so high dex is a little silly. Constitution Con effects your hitpoints and fortitude saves, along with your rage duration. Depending on your goals, this or strength should be your first and second highest stat. Intelligence Barbarian's skill list is just pitiful, theres little reason to put a high number here. Wisdom Helps your worst save, and if you are going into Frenzied Barbarian, a must. Steadfast Determination removes all use for this ability. Charisma Unless your focusing on intimidating theres really no reason to get this stat.
#3 zendu Mar 20, 2008 23:54:10	Class Features Show Weapon proficiencies Barbarians get it all, martial and simple weapons Armor proficiencies Light and Medium armor and all shields but tower. IlliteracyYou can buy this off with a level in another class or 2 skill points. I'd leave it for roleplaying purposes, but for char-op you might want to negate it. Fast MovementHelps you get where your going, and move tactically around the battlefield. RageThis is where its at, helps you smash things. Uncanny Dodge(level 2) Helps a bit during surprise rounds, thats about it. Trap Sense(level 3) A weird tack on for this class in my opinion. Improved Uncanny dodge(level 5)Situational, but very nice in that situation. This is a good jumping off Damage Reduction(level 7) Serious damage mitigation against large groups. However by the time you get it, it does little in most situations. Greater Rage(level 11) Makes rage even...ragier? Indomitable Will(level 14) an impressive boost to your problem save. Tireless Rage(level 17) Whats left at this point anyway? Greater Rage (level 20)Another boost to your rage ability.
#4 zendu Mar 20, 2008 23:54:42	Skills Show Climb (Str) Can help you tactically. Craft (Int) Skip it. Handle Animal (Cha) Simply not that many Intimidate (Cha) In roleplaying heavy sessions, this is about all you can do. Jump (Str) Good if you are getting leap attack. Listen (Wis) Probably one of the most used rolls in most campaigns. Also a wise choice if you are filling a scout position. Ride (Dex) Not a typical barbarian skill. Survival (Wis) An assumed skill by most, if you are getting track, a must. Swim (Str) Good in certain situations campaigns.
#5 zendu Mar 20, 2008 23:55:19	Gear Show Mundane Show Greatsword The best martial weapon out there, 2d6 and 19/20 x2 crit. If you are using two handed, you will most likely be using this. Harpoon Great for high str throwing builds, as it does its damage twice. Tigerskull Club (FB) One of the best on handers, 1d8 x4 crit, exotic. Free for Neanderthals Spiked Chain The prefered weapon for many char-op builds, range without penalty and tripping bonuses. Well worth the feat.
#6 jaronk Mar 21, 2008 0:43:16	Alternative Class Features is important, specifically the Complete Champion Lion Totem Substitution, the Unearthed Arcana Wolf Totem Substitution, and the Unearthed Arcana Whirling Frenzy Substitution. JaronK
#7 zendu Mar 21, 2008 1:26:44	Where is whirling frenzy? I cant find it in UA. I don't see wolf totem as all that great. Lion totem is pwn though.
#8 green_eyes Mar 21, 2008 1:31:38	Class Feature variants. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy A barbarian with this variant form of rage doesn't gain the normal bonuses when he enters a rage. Instead, when a barbarian with whirling frenzy enters a rage, he temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength and a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves. While in a whirling frenzy, the barbarian may make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the barbarian might make before his next action. Whirling frenzy is otherwise identical to the standard barbarian rage in all other ways. At 11th level (when a standard barbarian gains greater rage), the Strength bonus increases to +6, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +3. At 20th level (when a standard barbarian gains mighty rage), the Strength bonus increases to +8, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +4. A barbarian using this variant doesn't gain indomitable will at 14th level. Instead, he gains evasion, but only while in a whirling frenzy. A character can't use whirling frenzy at the same time that he uses any other form of rage (or similar ability).
#9 zendu Mar 21, 2008 2:27:53	ah ha, never read it.
#10 jaronk Mar 21, 2008 2:30:24	Where is whirling frenzy? I cant find it in UA. I don't see wolf totem as all that great. Lion totem is pwn though. Wolf Totem from UA gives Improved Trip at level 2 without needing a high Int score (which you need if you're getting it with Combat Expertise as a prereq). This is great for Orc Barbarians. Also, since Wolf Totem and Lion Totem trade different things, it's RAW legal to use both (plus whirling frenzy) so that a two level Barbarian dip gives you Rage, Pounce, and Improved Trip. That's AWESOME. JaronK
#11 surreal Mar 21, 2008 3:27:14	Barbarian related PrCs: Totem Rager Rage Mage Runescarred Beserker Eye of Gruumsh Bear Warrior Champion of Gwyn... however the heck you spell it Black Blood Cultist Battlerager (Races of Faerun) Frostrager oh yeah, and Frenzied Beserker Aw heck, just grab everything under the "rage" heading in my Lists of Stuff thread. Other races: Neanderthal Dusklings Goliath Dragonborn I think Mad Foam Rager deserves a better rating. The ability to ignore just about any effect (if even for just a round) is quite strong.
#12 zendu Mar 21, 2008 3:52:02	I was tempted as well to knock it up a notch, but come on... one round? I'll have to re-read it to see if it allows for delaying pre-save. It might be passable in that case. Consider though that Iron Heart Surge lets you REMOVE the debuff.
#13 w00tmanx Mar 21, 2008 7:26:22	[color=blue]Wolf Totem[/color Improved Trip is nice. need to close off that tag. <3
#14 smudgyhandsman Mar 21, 2008 8:13:55	You know, I don't think I've ever seen a handbook have one, but I always thought a weapons section would be nice. Barbarians depend upon their weapon a lot, and it's always good to choose one that can be carried farther than others in terms of optimization.
#15 CantripN Mar 21, 2008 8:26:47	Spiritual Totem (CC 46) Bear Improved Grab is very nice. You'd think it is. Until you read the description in the SRD of Improved Grab. It only works on targets smaller than you, so Small or less normally. This is only good with a Goliath Barbarian who turns Large.
#16 grundle Mar 21, 2008 8:32:09	I hope all these descriptions are just place-holders. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought handbooks were supposed to present useful/helpful information...?
#17 Wyvernhand Mar 21, 2008 10:09:21	Mad Foam Rager is actually really good in a party situation. By delaying the effect, you buy your party a round to correct the issue. Dominated? Not yet, but wanting to buy a Greater Dispel or a Prot Evil. Full attacked to death? Nab a Heal (capital H) from your party cleric. Rolled a 1 vs death effects or get breathed by a stealthy shadow dragon? Its long enough to get a Death Ward put up. Want a heroic last stand? This lets you Leap Attack through a Prismatic Sphere to pounce the BBEG caster trying to Take Over the World (TM) and let the consequences be damned. Its all kinds of useful, you just need to a) be creative and b) have a party that can save your ass after the shiss hits the whirling blades.
#18 elephant_jack Mar 21, 2008 10:15:37	Don't forget this! Streetfighter and Ferocity are superb options for barbarians - and Tumble vs. Ride seems a good trade in 9/10 cases. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought handbooks were supposed to present useful/helpful information...? Either that or at least the should contain some builds/ideas... hope they'll come. Half-Orcs SMASH! Half-orcs are a good choice. Mad Foam Rager(PHBII) Delay something for one round? Pass. Intelligence Barbarian's skill list is just pitiful, this should be your dump stat. Mh, care to explain? Ok, half-orcs get +2 Str. That's about it. MFR is DEFINITIVELY better then "red"... The skill list sucks? Did you ever look at a fighter's? Handle Animal, Jump, Listen, Survival, Tumble via Cityscape WE - not that bad, eh? AND: Intimidate has it's own handbook (good one, btw) - so this should deserve mention. Definitively needs some work. EJ EDIT: Mh, you mentioned Intimidate... In roleplaying heavy sessions, this is about all you can do. Rolling a dice is all you can do in rp-heavy sessions? You're not quite serious about that, are you? I'd suggest you mention the "Demoralize"-part of the skill.
#19 Midnight_v Mar 21, 2008 11:15:20	nevermind...
#20 eldariel Mar 21, 2008 12:48:55	Add Trapkiller ACF from Dungeonscape too; it allows Barbarian to be the party Rogue to a degree while also handling it with the same skill that allows Tracking and such (Magical traps can be handled via Dispel Magics and Barbarian can disarm the rest (save for what you jump/fly over) - best of all, you give up Trap Sense which is a totally crappy ability); go ahead and pick up Track-feat if you have a feats to burn while at it to handle yet another job, making you a veritable skill monkey with just one skill. Oh yeah, and you can do the trapfinding with only one skill (of course, with the -5 penalty, it's tough without a feat or high Survival to find the toughest traps), making it very economical; you'll need to pump Survival a bit, but it works great for you. So yea, make a section about ACFs. Most of Barbarian-use nowadays is because they exist; the stock just isn't that good.
#21 Wyvernhand Mar 21, 2008 12:58:15	So yea, make a section about ACFs. Most of Barbarian-use nowadays is because they exist; the stock just isn't that good. Speaking of ACF...There is one in CM??? that swaps out trapsense for spell sense. Spell sense adds your trap sense bonus to your touch AC vs spells, which is rather nice for a straight classed barb. Is it game breakingly powerful? No. Is it better than trap sense? Infinitely so.
#22 eldariel Mar 21, 2008 13:50:29	The problem with Spell Sense is that Barbarians generally don't have much AC to speak of (Deepwardens aside), with the general Rage>Shock Trooper Charge-routine dropping your AC by ~15-20 come midlevels, so even with +6, casters will probably hit on 1. Some specific builds may benefit of it, but it doesn't look that good in general; Trap Sense sucks, but at least it does something. Of course, Spell Sense works when you lose the Initiative so perhaps my evaluation was too critical.
#23 zendu Mar 21, 2008 14:40:31	As fat as the intimidate comment, I meant its all you can do mechanics wise. All of this characters abilities are bent towards combat. I'll try and add a weapons section, sounds fun. Yes everything is mostly placeholders, I'm just trying to get the mass of info out.
#24 Backlash3906 Mar 21, 2008 15:51:49	For a human Grappler barbarian... A 1-level dip into Swashbuckler gets you Tumble and Escape Artist in time (preferably with Able Learner taken at 1st level) to take both Reaping Mauler (for grappling monsters larger than you) and Bear Warrior (for Improved Grab on anything Medium or smaller) to completion; without any BAB loss. What's MoMF?
#25 jaerad Mar 21, 2008 16:26:38	It's more directly related to FB builds, but increasing your will save is useful for any BSF. Normal routes are Endurance + Steadfast Determination (PHBII) or Bullheaded (FRCS) + Iron Will + Cumbrous Will (SS). Complete Champ FB Warblade FB Both of those posts are by merrcury529, who is a great resource for Barbarians. *EDIT* Oh ya, you should mention some of the +LA races/templates that are good - Half Minotaur, Half-Ogre, Mineral Warrior, Feral, Lycanthrope, Mongrelfolk, Neanderthal, Hobgolblins, etc.
#26 zendu Mar 21, 2008 16:28:54	master of many forms. is Neanderthal +1 la? i didnt read that in the book.
#27 zendu Mar 22, 2008 16:01:59	Are there any weapons I'm missing?
#28 tshern Mar 22, 2008 16:08:09	The way Barbarians should look. This is looking good so far, nice work.
#29 zendu Mar 22, 2008 16:33:45	He looks like hes just about to rap-battle.... hes like the orc version of vanilla ice. I'd really like to add a section about magic items in here, but I don't know that many specific barbarian ones, and theres no way I'm diving through MIC
#30 eldariel Mar 22, 2008 18:01:43	Few things: -I really think Shock Trooper deserves to be in blue. If you go for a charger damage build, it's the best thing you can get. -Runescarred Berserker seems like it should be blue too. Being able to use Anti-Magic Field, Heal and few other choice spells (including methods of Flight) is awesome. -You may want to list Cityscape tradeable skills in the Skills-section: Tumble (from Ride) Gather Information (from Handle Animal) can both be extremely useful and increase your versatility somewhat. Tumble for Ride is an obvious trade and Gather Information for Handle Animal depends much on the campaign, but both are Cha-based so it's rare for you to take ranks in either. Still, in a City-heavy settings with weird stats (mostly some odd rolls if rolling), you may end up with a Barb with highish Cha, which is the sign for you to max Gather Information and Intimidate. Also, depending on the build, few useful crossclass skills include Spot (why can't it be a class skill :/), Hide, Move Silently, Diplomacy and maybe Bluff; each has its place if you have extras to spend. Neanderthals have no LA. They're excellent Barbs.
#31 zendu Mar 22, 2008 18:51:32	I agree with all your comments Eldariel, and I'm working them in. This thread is now pretty much redundant, I have started work on the other barb thread found here http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=15406943#post15406943 I'm only keeping this for the short term in case i need anything from it.