Bard in mah brain. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Bard in mah brain.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Senevri
Feb 28, 2010 20:54:54 Core bard gish:

Bard 5/Dragon Disciple 4/Bard +11

Sample stats: 10, 14, 12, 10, 8, 13. Bonus points go to STR and CHA, at first.

How does this work, then?
Early levels are tough, but at level 4 you get Mirror Image, which is the best Miss Chance inducer in the game.

Levels 6-9 you get 3 extra slots and add two more attacks, +2 AC, +2 to attack and damage. Do keep in mind, if you single-wield a rapier, for an example, you get Claw and Bite at -5, -3 with multiattack. So, your attack routine at level 6 would be blade, claw, bite. Equal to TWF fighter, although not quite as good attack bonus.

Keep in mind you CAN, RAW, activate all of inspire courage, inspire greatness and inspire heroism.

You probably want to put some points in stealth, and maybe pick up silent spell, since you do want your buff rounds to go off properly.

Final stats: 26, 14, 14, 10, 8, 22, with tomes on STR, CHA.

Attack bonus is 3 and feats less than that of a fighter of equal level. Good thing you get that +3 morale on attack and damage. Your attack routine is +23/+18/+13//+21/+21, with extra 8 points of damage on first three, and four on the last two.

Your fully buffed attack routine is:
+29/+29/+24/+19//+27/+27, with a total of +11 on primary blows. With a boring +5 weapon, that's +34 to hit, with +16 on damage.

Your AC will be 6 points above normal, typically in +5 mithril, something like 39, with ring and amulet.

This isn't the only good build, though. Something as simple as Bard 10/Dragon Disciple 10 is quite powerful, in it's own way; Dropping in something like Barb 1/Eldritch Knight 3, will net you +3 to hit, +2 to damage and your fourth attack, at the cost of +3 bard song and song of heroism; 6th spells, too.

It is hard to say what is the optimum here.

For a bit more expanded set of books, you coul go Bard, War Weaver, Combat Medic, Fiendblood and drop heals-on-all, while Delay Death + Favor of the Martyr are running. You'd really want flame blade, if there's no spell compendium, though.

*edit* - Semi-related thread, what can I say, here
#2
korasukage
Mar 01, 2010 11:10:45 Your build ideas above are pretty solid Senevri. Although when it comes to bard gish type builds I have always loved the following.

ftr4/bard16 or brb4/savage bard16 if ua variants are allowed

I know its simple but it really does shine. All around its a solid character with 4 attacks/round, great saves, 6th lvl bard spells etc etc. Pick up some of the following feats and you're set ...

practised spellcaster
weapon focus
weapon spec
melee weapon mastery
lingering song
words of creation
power attack
melodic spellcasting
song of the heart
cleave
Anyhoo, hope that helps some.

Cheers
Kor
#3
Senevri
Mar 01, 2010 12:22:42
Feats are good, but if we limit to core, one's left with weapon focus, weapon spec, power attack and cleave.

Cleave is sort of DM-dependant. I like using mobs of easily killables for softer encounters, but other dm uses single really tough monsters, generally speaking.

Fighter 4 is definitely not bad, but loses some more caster levels; although, there really isn't anything that critical on the 6th level, gishing-wise.

I'd probably pick song of the white raven outside core, if it applies to all song types - outside core, you may want to enhance your bard song with the boost spell from SpC, which means spending a standard action to start inspire courage - the swift bard song would help activating Greatness and Heroism.

That being said, Bard 6/War Weaver 5/Fiend-Blooded 4/Combat Medic 6 is just mean, buffing-wise. Hardly a song to speak of, though.

For Gnobard, a one-level dip to Dragon Disciple would delay his spellcasting enough that he'd get access to higher stats on a nicer schedule. Two levels would fix the STR issue, as his current movement speed is 10ft/rd. Extra slots and AC are nice too. That being said, he's definitely not build for gishing, and since nothing progresses Song, he can at most lose 4 levels, for other stuff.
Since he's a support NPC/DMPC, that's not so bad, actually.
#4
carnivore
Mar 01, 2010 15:06:59 for a Core only game .... why not just use 1/2 Dragon(Gold or Brass) Template

+3 LA
+8 Str,+2 Con,+2 Int,+2 Cha
+4 Natural Armor
Immunity(Fire)
Bite and Claw attacks
Breath Weapon

any of these Races ..... Human, Gray Elf, Deep Halfling, Forest Gnome

then stay Bard 17

this way you have great attributes.... and better racial abilities .... all you loose is 2 6th lvl spell slots(but you gain 1 @5th, and 1 @3rd from Bard 17th)

#5
Senevri
Mar 01, 2010 15:25:41 Ah, yeah. That's good if not starting on 1st level. Starting on... 7th or so, that could be quite nice
Analysis:
Losses: 3 HD, so 3 BAB, 3 ranks, about 20ish hit points, lot of progression.
Gains: +17 HP, +2 Atk, +2>+3 damage, AC, etc...

Yeah, it's nice. Better in many ways than a 4-level dip to dragon disciple.

*edit*
Wait, what? A 20th level Bard has at least +21 to hit, and +4 to damage you say?

I think that Fighter 4/Bard 16 would make a very nifty Archer bard, then. Or even better, Bard 16/Fighter 2/Arcane Archer 2. Ooh!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Senevri Feb 28, 2010 20:54:54	Core bard gish: Bard 5/Dragon Disciple 4/Bard +11 Sample stats: 10, 14, 12, 10, 8, 13. Bonus points go to STR and CHA, at first. How does this work, then? Early levels are tough, but at level 4 you get Mirror Image, which is the best Miss Chance inducer in the game. Levels 6-9 you get 3 extra slots and add two more attacks, +2 AC, +2 to attack and damage. Do keep in mind, if you single-wield a rapier, for an example, you get Claw and Bite at -5, -3 with multiattack. So, your attack routine at level 6 would be blade, claw, bite. Equal to TWF fighter, although not quite as good attack bonus. Keep in mind you CAN, RAW, activate all of inspire courage, inspire greatness and inspire heroism. You probably want to put some points in stealth, and maybe pick up silent spell, since you do want your buff rounds to go off properly. Final stats: 26, 14, 14, 10, 8, 22, with tomes on STR, CHA. Attack bonus is 3 and feats less than that of a fighter of equal level. Good thing you get that +3 morale on attack and damage. Your attack routine is +23/+18/+13//+21/+21, with extra 8 points of damage on first three, and four on the last two. Your fully buffed attack routine is: +29/+29/+24/+19//+27/+27, with a total of +11 on primary blows. With a boring +5 weapon, that's +34 to hit, with +16 on damage. Your AC will be 6 points above normal, typically in +5 mithril, something like 39, with ring and amulet. This isn't the only good build, though. Something as simple as Bard 10/Dragon Disciple 10 is quite powerful, in it's own way; Dropping in something like Barb 1/Eldritch Knight 3, will net you +3 to hit, +2 to damage and your fourth attack, at the cost of +3 bard song and song of heroism; 6th spells, too. It is hard to say what is the optimum here. For a bit more expanded set of books, you coul go Bard, War Weaver, Combat Medic, Fiendblood and drop heals-on-all, while Delay Death + Favor of the Martyr are running. You'd really want flame blade, if there's no spell compendium, though. edit - Semi-related thread, what can I say, here
#2 korasukage Mar 01, 2010 11:10:45	Your build ideas above are pretty solid Senevri. Although when it comes to bard gish type builds I have always loved the following. ftr4/bard16 or brb4/savage bard16 if ua variants are allowed I know its simple but it really does shine. All around its a solid character with 4 attacks/round, great saves, 6th lvl bard spells etc etc. Pick up some of the following feats and you're set ... practised spellcaster weapon focus weapon spec melee weapon mastery lingering song words of creation power attack melodic spellcasting song of the heart cleave Anyhoo, hope that helps some. Cheers Kor
#3 Senevri Mar 01, 2010 12:22:42	Feats are good, but if we limit to core, one's left with weapon focus, weapon spec, power attack and cleave. Cleave is sort of DM-dependant. I like using mobs of easily killables for softer encounters, but other dm uses single really tough monsters, generally speaking. Fighter 4 is definitely not bad, but loses some more caster levels; although, there really isn't anything that critical on the 6th level, gishing-wise. I'd probably pick song of the white raven outside core, if it applies to all song types - outside core, you may want to enhance your bard song with the boost spell from SpC, which means spending a standard action to start inspire courage - the swift bard song would help activating Greatness and Heroism. That being said, Bard 6/War Weaver 5/Fiend-Blooded 4/Combat Medic 6 is just mean, buffing-wise. Hardly a song to speak of, though. For Gnobard, a one-level dip to Dragon Disciple would delay his spellcasting enough that he'd get access to higher stats on a nicer schedule. Two levels would fix the STR issue, as his current movement speed is 10ft/rd. Extra slots and AC are nice too. That being said, he's definitely not build for gishing, and since nothing progresses Song, he can at most lose 4 levels, for other stuff. Since he's a support NPC/DMPC, that's not so bad, actually.
#4 carnivore Mar 01, 2010 15:06:59	for a Core only game .... why not just use 1/2 Dragon(Gold or Brass) Template +3 LA +8 Str,+2 Con,+2 Int,+2 Cha +4 Natural Armor Immunity(Fire) Bite and Claw attacks Breath Weapon any of these Races ..... Human, Gray Elf, Deep Halfling, Forest Gnome then stay Bard 17 this way you have great attributes.... and better racial abilities .... all you loose is 2 6th lvl spell slots(but you gain 1 @5th, and 1 @3rd from Bard 17th)
#5 Senevri Mar 01, 2010 15:25:41	Ah, yeah. That's good if not starting on 1st level. Starting on... 7th or so, that could be quite nice Analysis: Losses: 3 HD, so 3 BAB, 3 ranks, about 20ish hit points, lot of progression. Gains: +17 HP, +2 Atk, +2>+3 damage, AC, etc... Yeah, it's nice. Better in many ways than a 4-level dip to dragon disciple. edit Wait, what? A 20th level Bard has at least +21 to hit, and +4 to damage you say? I think that Fighter 4/Bard 16 would make a very nifty Archer bard, then. Or even better, Bard 16/Fighter 2/Arcane Archer 2. Ooh!